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PO #6 -- Penguins @ Flyers -- April 25, 2009 --3:00PM

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04-27-2009, 02:30 AM
  #876
ilovetheflyers8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #2eddieshore View Post
what was the fan reaction after losing the lead?

did the fans continue to encourage the team or did they boo?

also were the team booed or cheered off the ice at the end of the game?

im asking because recently i attended games in montreal and the fans were brutal. mocking their own team and not showing support etc and wondered how this compared with other cities.
From what I saw on tv the fans were very supportive. Before the last face off with about a minute to go many of the fans stood up and were clapping/cheering (if i recall right).

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04-27-2009, 06:28 AM
  #877
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Same crap I have been preaching all year, Bad Goalie (cant control/Freeze pucks at his feet) Lousy defense( Turn over Machine)Uninspired offense( Take way to many shifts off) coach who has NO defensive scheme in our own zone. Fire everyone make stevens assistent coach and Hire Hockey people not out of work former goons

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04-27-2009, 05:14 PM
  #878
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I think I'm on the other side of the fence with the fight, the case against it gained momentum, and Talbot certainly knew what he was doing.

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04-27-2009, 05:29 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I think I'm on the other side of the fence with the fight, the case against it gained momentum, and Talbot certainly knew what he was doing.
The case for and against the fight...is ultimately unprovable in either direction.

However, we can make some basic statements that relate to the justification for fighting in the NHL...and the situation at that moment in time. The primary justification for fighting in the NHL -- other than to defend your players -- is that it can be used to infuse some emotion in your team. Now, the debate at that point with regard to Talbot is that Talbot lost the fight. Badly. Supposedly, this is to lead to negative consequences for the Pens...I've never understood this. Sucks for Talbot, but the energy from the fight should still energize the rest of the players.

More to the point though. We were winning 3-0. You want the rest of the game to be as absolutely boring as you can possibly make it. You want the Pens to sit on their bench and think about going back to Pittsburgh.

There's no reason to drop the gloves in that time and spot...it wasn't to defend a Flyer from some Pen throwing out dirty hits...it wasn't an emotional fight out of a scrum. It was a set piece fight. Why?

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04-27-2009, 05:33 PM
  #880
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I agree with that, and I can't figure out why the Flyers shouldn't still be energized, but you certainly can't let the Penguins take the momentum from it.

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04-27-2009, 05:44 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
More to the point though. We were winning 3-0. You want the rest of the game to be as absolutely boring as you can possibly make it. You want the Pens to sit on their bench and think about going back to Pittsburgh.

There's no reason to drop the gloves in that time and spot...it wasn't to defend a Flyer from some Pen throwing out dirty hits...it wasn't an emotional fight out of a scrum. It was a set piece fight. Why?
He never should have dropped the gloves. I'm almost certain I posted something to that effect in the GDT.


That being said, I honestly don't think the fight had as big an impact on the game as many people believe. The Pens were controlling the game from the first puck drop. Even before the fight, the Pens had seemingly more energy than the Flyers. A couple lucky bounces and some hard work got the ball rolling for the Pens and the Flyers did nothing to stop it. The Carcillo fight will be remembered as the turning point of the game, but it was Fedotenko's goal that convinced the Pens they weren't out of the game and opened the floodgates.

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04-27-2009, 06:34 PM
  #882
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We were supposed to be up 1-0 in game 7 right now.

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04-27-2009, 07:12 PM
  #883
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Loved every second of the Carcillo fight. In fact, it was one of my favorite moments of the whole season. The Flyers score to go up 3-0, Talbot challenges Carcillo, then Carcillo beats him into the ice and pumps up the crowd. Absolutely awesome. Matt Carle is to blame for the shift in momentum. After letting Malkin skate him in circles, he not only failed to take the body after the initial save, he skated into Richards and fell on his ass, preventing Richards from making a play. Malkin's original chance was not much of a threat at all. Carle failed to make a play on either the loose puck or Malkin, and it resulted in the game changing goal. That play should have ended as a mediocre attempt with no second chance. Instead, Carle lets Malkin poke the puck under Biron's glove which lead to the goal.

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04-27-2009, 07:18 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Loved every second of the Carcillo fight. In fact, it was one of my favorite moments of the whole season. The Flyers score to go up 3-0, Talbot challenges Carcillo, then Carcillo beats him into the ice and pumps up the crowd. Absolutely awesome. Matt Carle is to blame for the shift in momentum. After letting Malkin skate him in circles, he not only failed to take the body after the initial save, he skated into Richards and fell on his ass, preventing Richards from making a play. Malkin's original chance was not much of a threat at all. Carle failed to make a play on either the loose puck or Malkin, and it resulted in the game changing goal. That play should have ended as a mediocre attempt with no second chance. Instead, Carle lets Malkin poke the puck under Biron's glove which lead to the goal.


I love the lengths people will go to in order to blame one of the HF boards scapegoats instead of a favorite. Coburn was standing right next to Fedetenko, and didn't bother to play him or the puck until after the celebration started.

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04-27-2009, 07:31 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post


I love the lengths people will go to in order to blame one of the HF boards scapegoats instead of a favorite. Coburn was standing right next to Fedetenko, and didn't bother to play him or the puck until after the celebration started.
If Biron does the Brodeur patented paddle down and wait for the puck to hit you...it's probably not a goal either.

It was a goal...there was a breakdown. It's life.

I find that goal far less aggravating than Randy Jones pinching down with a man changing behind the D...leading to an errant pass (by Richards, who probably shouldn't have tried the pass even), and Jones showing for one and all his hip was so screwed he had zero ability to stop and start.

However, if you're the D with the lead in the playoffs...you shouldn't be pinching down in that situation as you're just begging for an odd-man rush against.

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04-27-2009, 07:35 PM
  #886
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There's a pro-fight point people are forgetting about - we still would have had game 7 to win.

Bad idea to look ahead? Always. But how many of you can honestly say you weren't at the time? It's easy in hindsight to stress the basics which of course means 'one game at a time'. But we were trying to come back from 1-3. Series momentum was a factor, not just the single game momentum. You could also argue that one fight in one game most likely won't have an effect on a game 2 days later, but in that situation I think it could have.

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04-27-2009, 07:39 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
There's a pro-fight point people are forgetting about - we still would have had game 7 to win.

Bad idea to look ahead? Always. But how many of you can honestly say you weren't at the time? It's easy in hindsight to stress the basics which of course means 'one game at a time'. But we were trying to come back from 1-3. Series momentum was a factor, not just the single game momentum. You could also argue that one fight in one game most likely won't have an effect on a game 2 days later, but in that situation I think it could have.
We had series momentum. We probably should have won Games 2, and 4 (absolutely should have won this one). We HAD won Games 3 and 5. We had all the momentum in that series.

Don't fight. There's absolutely no reason to fight. Did it cause the comeback? Meh...I don't know or particularly care. But I do know there was no good reason to drop the gloves in that time and place.

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04-27-2009, 08:33 PM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post


I love the lengths people will go to in order to blame one of the HF boards scapegoats instead of a favorite. Coburn was standing right next to Fedetenko, and didn't bother to play him or the puck until after the celebration started.
He was probably too busy laughing at Carle for taking Richards out of the play instead of Malkin. Coburn did let Fedetenko go around him, but the puck should have never been there in the first place. He got caught anticipating the play being over, and if Carle would have decided to put a body on Eugene instead of Richards it would have been. Matty really picked a great person to throw his first hit of the year on.

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04-28-2009, 02:35 AM
  #889
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How about this breakdown? Our team has played uninspired for most of the second half of the season, it's a team game, team ****ed it up, defense ****ed it up by letting in 4 goals, same with the goalie, and the offense ****ed it up by think 3 goals could beat the Penguin team. I mean it happened once but when you play a team that has heart, they will rally, unlike your 2008-2009 Philadelphia Failers.

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04-28-2009, 04:47 AM
  #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I think I'm on the other side of the fence with the fight, the case against it gained momentum, and Talbot certainly knew what he was doing.
Me and my buddies(box 11) said the same thing at the time. Why fight? Up 3 zip and we had all the mo in the world. No reason at all to piss them off. They were dead.From that moment on the penguins took control of the game. Yeah a couple of their goals were of the weird variety. But they outworked us and good things happen to teams that work hard. Carcillo has got to be smarter than that. Oh well, 34 years and counting

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04-28-2009, 05:03 AM
  #891
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Not that it means anything, but has anyone noticed that we've never beaten Fedotenko in a playoff series since he left the team?

Lost in 2004 to the Lightning.

Lost in 2008 to the Pens.

Lost in 2009 to the Pens.

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04-28-2009, 08:24 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
Not that it means anything, but has anyone noticed that we've never beaten Fedotenko in a playoff series since he left the team?

Lost in 2004 to the Lightning.

Lost in 2008 to the Pens.

Lost in 2009 to the Pens.
Fedotenko was on the Islanders in 2008.

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04-28-2009, 08:50 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Me and my buddies(box 11) said the same thing at the time. Why fight? Up 3 zip and we had all the mo in the world. No reason at all to piss them off. They were dead.From that moment on the penguins took control of the game. Yeah a couple of their goals were of the weird variety. But they outworked us and good things happen to teams that work hard. Carcillo has got to be smarter than that. Oh well, 34 years and counting


I blame the fans in attendance....sounded like a funeral after the Pens first goal. As long as we're looking for someone to blame other than the whole Flyers organization. This loss had nothing to do with Carcillo beating down Talbot.

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04-28-2009, 08:54 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We had series momentum. We probably should have won Games 2, and 4 (absolutely should have won this one). We HAD won Games 3 and 5. We had all the momentum in that series.

Don't fight. There's absolutely no reason to fight. Did it cause the comeback? Meh...I don't know or particularly care. But I do know there was no good reason to drop the gloves in that time and place.




He was being challenged. Do you honestly think Talbot thought he would change the momentum by getting beat down? Carcillo did what he's paid to do and everybody panicked after Pittsburgh scored. We were simply too mistake prone and leaky to beat the Pens.

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04-28-2009, 03:00 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
[/B]



He was being challenged. Do you honestly think Talbot thought he would change the momentum by getting beat down? Carcillo did what he's paid to do and everybody panicked after Pittsburgh scored. We were simply too mistake prone and leaky to beat the Pens.
Talbot explicitly said after the game that was exactly what he was trying to do. Not only that, he basically said he knew Carcillo from having played with him in the minors and didn't expect that he'd have much chance in the fight. He had been on the ice for a goal against and felt like he'd let the team down so he was trying to fight to get some emotion going for the Pens.

Fighting someone for the sake of fighting is NOT what Carcillo is paid to do. It was a dumb time to fight.

I'm perfectly comfortable with debating whether that had anything to do with the collapse...and, frankly, you, I, and everyone else will never know. The whole discussion is about intangibles. However, the fact of the matter is that "Talbot challenged him!" is not a good enough justification for Carcillo.

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04-28-2009, 03:41 PM
  #896
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Carcillo's fight should have had no bearing on the game. The crowd was rocking after that one, team should have used that energy to start asserting themselves on the Pens (something they hadn't done to that point), but they just continued to do nothing.

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04-28-2009, 04:53 PM
  #897
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Talbot silencing the crowd was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. How do you "shh" the crowd after getting beat up? Athletes do that after they do something that makes the crowd go silent. The place was rocking and Talbot made himself look like an idiot. I honestly think he was embarrassed with how bad he lost and just felt like he had to do something. Regardless of how things ended up, the finger to lip move in that situation made no sense.

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04-29-2009, 12:58 AM
  #898
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Talbot silencing the crowd was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. How do you "shh" the crowd after getting beat up? Athletes do that after they do something that makes the crowd go silent. The place was rocking and Talbot made himself look like an idiot. I honestly think he was embarrassed with how bad he lost and just felt like he had to do something. Regardless of how things ended up, the finger to lip move in that situation made no sense.
It was very strange, to be sure.

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