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what's with CJ and his love for Dagenais?

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Old
03-19-2004, 11:57 PM
  #1
jcpenny
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what's with CJ and his love for Dagenais?

I know we've questionned his decisions and they turned out to be good. But this one is really pisses me off. You take off the hottest rookie in the NHL for a usesless 6'5 soft,slow, lifeless Dagenais. Thats just a slap in the face. What did Dagenais do to deserve a spot on the second line? First, we were on a winning streak so there was no need to change the line up. Second, Ryder,Kovalev and Ribs were starting to click. Ribs and KOvalev need a high energy player on their line so if they want to replace ryder do it with Bulis but not Dagenais!!

Is CJ trying to put Dagenais in the line up for the playoffs?

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03-20-2004, 12:02 AM
  #2
Mike8
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Maybe Julien likes the fact that Dagenais can score? Just a thought. :p

Who would you rather see injected into the lineup when the team is trying to roll four lines?

Juneau is entirely useless. And I don't think I'm being all that hard on him either.

Dackell's play this season leaves a lot to be desired. He's not all that hard on the puck, easily outmuscled, and he hasn't been cutting it in crunch time. Dackell has always been terribly overrated in even strength defensive situations.

Langdon is a warrior. I like the guy. But as an enforcer, if he's on the ice, he will receive even-up calls even if he doesn't deserve them. It's about reputation. So when you're playing a playoff atmosphere game against a highly disciplined team, you don't want to get yourself into any penalty trouble.

Who does that leave?

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03-20-2004, 12:03 AM
  #3
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I think Dags once put his arm around Julien's shoulder and told him, softly so that no one around would hear, "Hey Claude... I know some girls.... and, you know...."

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03-20-2004, 12:03 AM
  #4
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I am pretty sure that he put Ryder on the 3rd line to "balance things out" and provide more scoring depth throughout the lineup.

I think it's a big mistake though as he should really play with a playmaking centre (Koivu or Ribeiro) and not a checker in Dowd. I mean, both Ryder and Ribeiro had been playing well together during the recent winning streak.

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03-20-2004, 12:06 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
I am pretty sure that he put Ryder on the 3rd line to "balance things out" and provide more scoring depth throughout the lineup.

I think it's a big mistake though as he should really play with a playmaking centre (Koivu or Ribeiro) and not a checker in Dowd. I mean, both Ryder and Ribeiro had been playing well together during the recent winning streak.
I think CJ was just testing some new combos just to see... I wouldn't be surprised to see Ryder back on Ribeiro's line tomorrow and Dagenais selling hot dogs in the stands.

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03-20-2004, 12:07 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Maybe Julien likes the fact that Dagenais can score? Just a thought. :p

Who would you rather see injected into the lineup when the team is trying to roll four lines?

Juneau is entirely useless. And I don't think I'm being all that hard on him either.

Dackell's play this season leaves a lot to be desired. He's not all that hard on the puck, easily outmuscled, and he hasn't been cutting it in crunch time. Dackell has always been terribly overrated in even strength defensive situations.

Langdon is a warrior. I like the guy. But as an enforcer, if he's on the ice, he will receive even-up calls even if he doesn't deserve them. It's about reputation. So when you're playing a playoff atmosphere game against a highly disciplined team, you don't want to get yourself into any penalty trouble.

Who does that leave?
Easy

My line up for the playoffs

Perrault-Koivu-Zednik
Kovalev-Ribs-Ryder
Begin-Dowd-Bulis
Sundstrom-Juneau-Ward

I dont car if dackell or juneau play because they cant hurt the team on a 4th line but Dagenaishurting the team just by his presence.

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03-20-2004, 12:27 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Maybe Julien likes the fact that Dagenais can score? Just a thought. :p

Who would you rather see injected into the lineup when the team is trying to roll four lines?

Juneau is entirely useless. And I don't think I'm being all that hard on him either.

Dackell's play this season leaves a lot to be desired. He's not all that hard on the puck, easily outmuscled, and he hasn't been cutting it in crunch time. Dackell has always been terribly overrated in even strength defensive situations.

Langdon is a warrior. I like the guy. But as an enforcer, if he's on the ice, he will receive even-up calls even if he doesn't deserve them. It's about reputation. So when you're playing a playoff atmosphere game against a highly disciplined team, you don't want to get yourself into any penalty trouble.

Who does that leave?
Juneau useless? Dackell useless? All what you just said about Dackell can be told about Sunny! How about fundamental part of the game?

I don't think there is a big difference between Sundstrom, Juneau or Dackell, both are good defensively, experiency, not fast, not physical, limited offensive skills but Juneau is a center while Sundstrom and Dackell wingers!

The only one reason why Julien inserted Dagenais in the line-up is to give the vets a rest! Dagenais did absoluly nothing positive to hope get a shot in the playoffs, his mediocre performance was probably his last one in a Habs jersey or at least until the vets get ready to come back in good shape for the true season!

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03-20-2004, 12:31 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectificator
Juneau useless? Dackell useless? All what you just said about Dackell can be told about Sunny! How about fundamental part of the game?

I don't think there is a big difference between Sundstrom, Juneau or Dackell, both are good defensively, experiency, not fast, not physical, limited offensive skills but Juneau is a center while Sundstrom and Dackell wingers!

The only one reason why Julien inserted Dagenais in the line-up is to give the vets a rest! Dagenais did absoluly nothing positive to hope get a shot in the playoffs, his mediocre performance was probably his last one in a Habs jersey or at least until the vets get ready to come back in good shape for the true season!
I absolutely agree. Dagenais proved he can't play playoff hockey (I thought). I don't think he deserves to play. However, to be fair... I'd play him once more tomorrow just to be sure. To be fair, against the Devil's trap... a lot of guys looked like they were doing nothing (though for Dags, this is nothing new). :p

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03-20-2004, 12:34 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectificator
Juneau useless? Dackell useless? All what you just said about Dackell can be told about Sunny! How about fundamental part of the game?

I don't think there is a big difference between Sundstrom, Juneau or Dackell, both are good defensively, experiency, not fast, not physical, limited offensive skills but Juneau is a center while Sundstrom and Dackell wingers!
I respectfully disagree with you, once again.

Sundstrom is not even similar to Dackell and Juneau. Very different players, albeit the latter two try to play a similar role to Sundstrom's.

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03-20-2004, 12:38 AM
  #10
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I hate Dagenais too

A couple of weeks ago, when we started bashing threads about Dagenais, some peoples was defending him. But today, all I see is negative stuff. I think some peoples have changed their minds. If i'm wrong, tell me, Dagenais lovers :p

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03-20-2004, 12:41 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
I hate Dagenais too

A couple of weeks ago, when we started bashing threads about Dagenais, some peoples was defending him. But today, all I see is negative stuff. I think some peoples have changed their minds. If i'm wrong, tell me, Dagenais lovers :p
If theres a Dagenais lover in this board he's no Habs fan...

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03-20-2004, 06:30 AM
  #12
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electric
I think Dags once put his arm around Julien's shoulder and told him, softly so that no one around would hear, "Hey Claude... I know some girls.... and, you know...."

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03-20-2004, 09:18 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
I hate Dagenais too

A couple of weeks ago, when we started bashing threads about Dagenais, some peoples was defending him. But today, all I see is negative stuff. I think some peoples have changed their minds. If i'm wrong, tell me, Dagenais lovers :p
A Dagenais lover, I am not. However, I have defended him and even supported him in the past.

During the stretch run, his role will be very specific. He will be there to rest other players.

He has very little hockey skill, his work ethic is poor, he lacks skating and he simply does not look like a hockey player. But .... he does score goals (something like 15 in some 50 games). We can afford to gamble with him.

If during the summer he can work some ... lots ... of his weeaknesses, he could become a gem whether people like it or not.

If it does not work out which is higly likely... the HABS just move on to other things. Thats all.

As for this year's playoffs ... To a untrained eye he surely seems as if he does not belong there. But in BG and CJ, I trust.

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03-20-2004, 10:35 AM
  #14
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You guys bashing Dagenais are as worst as the guys who'd use to bash Koivu for absolutely no reason. The guy produced, the guy scored, the guy deserved his ice time.

The only time I didn't agree with Julien concerning Dagenais is yesterday however. I don't like Ryder being put on the 3rd line at all.

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03-20-2004, 10:38 AM
  #15
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Dagenais sucks, and i dont understand CJ to put a big 'tarla' on the second line with those quality players, but i think he learned his mistake, i didnt watch the game yesterday, but the little i watch i didnt remember Dagenais doing squat.
Ryder is a top 2 line player and i think they rely to much on ryder to provide offense to the 3th line, after all he is still a rookie let him continue become a force offensively and then maybe in 2 years we could try to make some test with him.

anyway, that sucks!

Ryder better play in the second line tonight.

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03-20-2004, 10:54 AM
  #16
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Dagenais can score, but take the body to him or see him play away from the puck and he is invisble and a liability to the Habs when on the ice. For a man his size he doesn't use it to his advantage to make room for himself or to over power smaller players. Look at what the "Cube" can do out there at his size, if Dags did that and had the heart of the "Cube" he could very well be a Daze type player. But with his strength, heart and unwillingness to do what it takes to play well away from the puck he looks like any other big and unskilled player out there.

Riberio and Dags may have chemistry, but Ribs really looked to have a great chemistry going with Ryder of late and looked like he missed him a lot last night. Ryder's line played well but we all know Bulis and Dowd aren't Riberio and Kovalev.

CJ should get back to the 2 scoring lines, the experiment failed IMO of balancing out the lines for the playoffs. To win here on out they need the scoring coming from those two lines and need it coming from Ryder and Ribs and not to mention get Kovalev firing on all cylinders too.

People may bash Juneau (I'm not a fan either), but he can play both ends of the rink and isn't the liabilty that Dagenais is.

Go to this CJ:

All combos have played and worked well with each other, if it ain't broke don't fix it!

Perreault-Koivu-Zednik
Ryder-Riberio-Kovalev
Begin-Dowd-Ward
Sundstrum-Juneau-Bulis

Scratches: Langdon can play on the fourth line or 3rd line, same can be said for Dackell. Dagenais only fits with Riberio, but he has to be a scratch from here on out IMO...send him to Hamilton.

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03-20-2004, 11:03 AM
  #17
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I'm not against moving Ryder to the third with Dowd if that's what CJ wants to try. I will say though, that when we had Ryder on the 2nd with Kov and Ribs I have never felt more confident in our scoring abilities. It was a wicked 2-line punch. As for Dags, put him on the fourth, give him some pp time and tell him he can work his way back up. We may as well play him if only because Juneau is injured. He can score, though I wonder what his shooting percentage is?

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03-20-2004, 11:10 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
I'm not against moving Ryder to the third with Dowd if that's what CJ wants to try. I will say though, that when we had Ryder on the 2nd with Kov and Ribs I have never felt more confident in our scoring abilities. It was a wicked 2-line punch. As for Dags, put him on the fourth, give him some pp time and tell him he can work his way back up. We may as well play him if only because Juneau is injured. He can score, though I wonder what his shooting percentage is?
Shooting percentage for Dags:

45 games, 15 goals on 137 shots for 10.9%

Riberio = 20.4% (20 goals on 98 shots)
Perreault = 14.4% (16 goals on 111 shots)
Koivu = 13.3% (14 goals on 105 shots)
Zednik = 12.4% (25 goals on 202 shots)
Ryder = 11.2% (22 goals on 196 shots)

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03-20-2004, 11:12 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Malakhov
You guys bashing Dagenais are as worst as the guys who'd use to bash Koivu for absolutely no reason. The guy produced, the guy scored, the guy deserved his ice time.

The only time I didn't agree with Julien concerning Dagenais is yesterday however. I don't like Ryder being put on the 3rd line at all.
You're completely off on that one pal! The KOivu bashing for some cant compare to the Dagenais bashing at all. Some questioned Koivu's leadership (which was stupid) while the dagenais situation is on a player analysis standpoint. There are som guys like him that even if they can score you dont want them on your team cuz their weaknesses are more apparent than their strength. The best exemple that i can find is a guy like Zoltok. Good scorer but horrible in all phases of the game. Thats why he got shipped so many times. And for those who think that Dagenais could work his weaknesses during the summer, forget it. At 26 years old, i think that every team told him to work on it. What we see is what we get. You cant teach skill, toughness, grit or hockey sense during a summer so forget this guy please!!

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03-20-2004, 11:14 AM
  #20
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I get a kick out of all this Dags talk. "He can score!"
If a player is 5'8'', can skate like the wind, score, pass, shoot.... he can't play cause he's too small. He has all the attributes, but 1, of a good hockey player. Well sir, Dags has 1 and only 1 talent. He can put the puck in the net every 3rd or 4th game. Whoop-de-doo!

If he could do something else... anything for christ sakes, he would be usefull. So he don't score for a game or 2, but at least he contributed in other ways, like skating hard... not Dags. By hitting.... not Dags. by killing penelties... not Dags. By checking the other teams better players... not Dags. By showing some heart... not Dags.

That guys, is why I do not like him. Michael Ryder has busted his ass for 6 or 7 years to show he belongs, and now that he belongs, he still busts his ass. Dags do not even show signs of having an ass to bust.

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03-20-2004, 11:34 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prrebel
I get a kick out of all this Dags talk. "He can score!"
If a player is 5'8'', can skate like the wind, score, pass, shoot.... he can't play cause he's too small. He has all the attributes, but 1, of a good hockey player. Well sir, Dags has 1 and only 1 talent. He can put the puck in the net every 3rd or 4th game. Whoop-de-doo!

If he could do something else... anything for christ sakes, he would be usefull. So he don't score for a game or 2, but at least he contributed in other ways, like skating hard... not Dags. By hitting.... not Dags. by killing penelties... not Dags. By checking the other teams better players... not Dags. By showing some heart... not Dags.

That guys, is why I do not like him. Michael Ryder has busted his ass for 6 or 7 years to show he belongs, and now that he belongs, he still busts his ass. Dags do not even show signs of having an ass to bust.
I agree with totally. Guys like Ward and Begin may not score every night, but you notice them for what they do game in and out...play hard and with heart!

Ryder may not score every game either, but he always creates chances and plays well without the puck and isn't a liability and is willing to sacrafice offense for the betterment of the team.

Plain and simple. Dags doesn't have the characteristics the other Habs do...Heart, sacrafice, determination and willingness to do whatever it takes to win. Those are the things that are making us the team we are today, the reason players are having career or comeback years.

Dags totally seems to be riding the coat tails of Riberio. It may have worked in Junior and even for a bit here in Montreal, but if you can't play the game and be your own man you can only go so far riding the success of another player.

Dagenais play is hurting Riberio's play and the teams as a whole.

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03-20-2004, 11:45 AM
  #22
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I look at it this way. Has there been a game in which Dags has not scored where we could say, "gee, he played well tonight". I personally haven't, in fact there have been games where he scores and I still think he played poorly. Nothing against the guy but he reminds me of the Witehall, Darby, Lind, Landry days. The Habs are too good for this guy to be on the team. His shot is very good, but he shoots from anywhere. The Devils shut him down but good yesterday just by pressuring him. Game 1 of the playoffs needs to have Ryder on the 2nd line with Dags in the pressbox waiting for someone to get hurt.

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03-20-2004, 11:56 AM
  #23
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I don't know why CJ moved Ryder from Ribs line? And for Dagenais???? It hurt our team last night as Burns had Pandolfo's line shut down Koivu's line leaving us with no other line to pick up the offense. So for the sake of trying to balance out 4 scoring lines by moving Ryder??????our offense was weakened. With The Ribs-Kov-Ryder line beginning to click CJ inserts Dagenais?????? Had our top two lines not been changed last night,Burns would not have been able to shut down our offense. :mad:

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03-20-2004, 12:00 PM
  #24
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CJ is a smart coach an he knows what players have made him and the Habs a success this season, I would be very surprised not to see Ryder on the line with Riberio and Kovalev tonight.

Sometimes you have to try things to see if it can work and help the team, it failed and he should go back to what got them where they are in first place. Well balanced scoring on 2 lines with 2 good checking lines with the ability to score and create chances too.

Go back to the original formula CJ.

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03-20-2004, 12:25 PM
  #25
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Every freak'n time a francophone offence-first player is given a chance to play for the Habs everybody here starts to whine about it :mad: Dagenais sucks, Perreault sucks, Ribeiro sucks. Not to mention Bouillon, Brisebois, Juneau and Quintal. As soon as someone here or in the media dares to suggest that Ribeiro was outplaying Koivu (which was true until a few weeks ago) everybody here jumps on him. Chad Kilger has 200+ games to prove himself with the Habs and some still suggested he'll break out with Toronto, or that he was never given a chance on the top lines

All I'm saying is that certain players never seem to get a fair chance from Habs fans, including Dagenais. He's got Zednik-like stats in 45 games, in his first long stint in the NHL. He still has a lot to learn, and IMO it would be a mistake to give up on him after what he's shown this season.

Obviously now he's behind Zednik, Perreault, Ryder and Kovalev on the depth chart and that's fine, but if a spot opens up next season he sould get every chance to prove himself in training camp and to win a job fair and square

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