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Jacques Demers: Who should stay and who should leave

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Old
04-30-2009, 01:32 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
The problem is Halak will ask for a trade sooner than later, you can't keep being put under the bus because the GM of your team HOPES your #1 (who was given to him), who was put there for no apparent reason other than HOPE, keeps getting starts no matter how well you play.
There were no alternatives to Price. Huet? The guy sucks. We know it. Washington found out. Chicago found out. Theodore? HAHAHAH....that's all I have to say. Price was the best goalie available and we went with him. There's no point paying 4-5 million for another goalie instead of going with the best one available. There was Khabibulin at 6.75 million, but we couldn't afford it.

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04-30-2009, 01:34 PM
  #52
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There were no alternatives to Price. Huet? The guy sucks. We know it. Washington found out. Chicago found out. Theodore? HAHAHAH....that's all I have to say. Price was the best goalie available and we went with him. There's no point paying 4-5 million for another goalie instead of going with the best one available. There was Khabibulin at 6.75 million, but we couldn't afford it.
And Price proved that he was better than the above why?

Listen do I have hope that Price makes it? Yeah someday...I just want this team to freakin win.

Do I think Price can make it? Maybe....can he fail...of course he can. But for people to put him on that pedistal, is not a good thing for a kid that age. He may make it, and he may not. I have a open mind, he needs help and alot of it....

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04-30-2009, 01:37 PM
  #53
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You can't count? Umm if your going to state that he will be the best second line center in the league you better well count every second line center in the league.

Thats like saying Carey Price would be the best starting goalie in the league if there weren't starting goalies in the league.
So you really think Malkin should be counted as a second line center? How about we just do it the realistic way aka realize that you can't get Malkin and that to judge what a second line center is you actually consider what a normal 2nd liner is. Saku Koivu is not Malkin, Lecavalier or Crosby. Why do people have to hold this against him? Why is he judged by an insanely restrictive definition of 2nd line center? I have never seen somebody get so much crap for being a good 2nd line player and not Ryan Getzlaf.

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04-30-2009, 01:38 PM
  #54
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There were no alternatives to Price. Huet? The guy sucks. We know it. Washington found out. Chicago found out. Theodore? HAHAHAH....that's all I have to say. Price was the best goalie available and we went with him. There's no point paying 4-5 million for another goalie instead of going with the best one available. There was Khabibulin at 6.75 million, but we couldn't afford it.
The most expensive goalies are not always the best performers. I'm sure there are a lot of hidden gems waiting to be found (Kuprusoff, Hiller, etc.).

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04-30-2009, 01:40 PM
  #55
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And Price proved that he was better than the above why?

Listen do I have hope that Price makes it? Yeah someday...I just want this team to freakin win.

Do I think Price can make it? Maybe....can he fail...of course he can. But for people to put him on that pedistal, is not a good thing for a kid that age. He may make it, and he may not. I have a open mind, he needs help and alot of it....
Price is better than Huet. He outplayed him. Huet is now sitting up on the bench backing up Khabibulin. Hawks fans have been whining about him all season. It's not a coincidence.

Theodore? The guy is sitting in favour of Varlamov. A 21 year old goalie. Boudreau had no faith in Theo and gave up on him immediately. I watched a lot of Caps games before ATDHE went to crap and Theodore absolutely stunk many of the games.

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04-30-2009, 01:42 PM
  #56
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I agree with most of what he said. I love Koivu but it's time for him to go unfortunately... I don't think he's part of the problem, but I don't see him as a part of the solution. We desperatly need to get a real number 1 center and we won't be able to afford one if Koivu signs a new contract. Demers is right, Koivu is really struggling to keep up, and can't play at 100% for an entire season anymore. He just isn't physically capable of being a number 1 center. Plus, there's been so many problems within the team in the last few years I think the time has come to have a new captain. I'm not saying he's a bad captain, but sometimes things just don't work out and changes have to be made.

Hopefully the Canadiens can keep Kovalev and Tanguay. I think Kovalev wants to stay, but I'm not sure about Tanguay...
So you say that losing a key player at a position we have NO depth whatsoever is the solution? Not mentioning the fact that he's one of the few that actually wants to play here despite all the BS thrown at him over the years. I also don't buy the "he's tired" crap; he's played with mediocre players for like 99% of his carreer, hence the lack of 80+ points seasons.

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04-30-2009, 01:43 PM
  #57
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The most expensive goalies are not always the best performers. I'm sure there are a lot of hidden gems waiting to be found (Kuprusoff, Hiller, etc.).
Yeah, Kipper was already on the Flames. Hiller was already on the Ducks. Nice try. I guess we're going to assume there's somebody better than Sidney Crosby somewhere that hasn't been discovered. And even Hiller is no better than Price. Don't you think Price would look good playing behind Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, Wisniewski, and Whitney? Not to mention the Sharks chocked and they played with no urgency and did not crash the net. Come on. It's not the same situation. I'd like to see Hiller playing behind a defense of Komisarek, Hamrlik, Gorges, Dandenault, Weber and O'Byrne. Christ, look at that defence. Not to mention Komi had a poor season.

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04-30-2009, 01:47 PM
  #58
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So you say that losing a key player at a position we have NO depth whatsoever is the solution? Not mentioning the fact that he's one of the few that actually wants to play here despite all the BS thrown at him over the years. I also don't buy the "he's tired" crap; he's played with mediocre players for like 99% of his carreer, hence the lack of 80+ points seasons.
Only he knows where he wants to play. And I never suggested just losing him, I'm saying we should choose not to sign him to bring in someone else to take his place.

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04-30-2009, 01:51 PM
  #59
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So you really think Malkin should be counted as a second line center? How about we just do it the realistic way aka realize that you can't get Malkin and that to judge what a second line center is you actually consider what a normal 2nd liner is. Saku Koivu is not Malkin, Lecavalier or Crosby. Why do people have to hold this against him? Why is he judged by an insanely restrictive definition of 2nd line center? I have never seen somebody get so much crap for being a good 2nd line player and not Ryan Getzlaf.
Hold it against him? It wasn't me that said he would be the best second line center in the league...if you left Malkin out....

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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Price is better than Huet. He outplayed him. Huet is now sitting up on the bench backing up Khabibulin. Hawks fans have been whining about him all season. It's not a coincidence.

Theodore? The guy is sitting in favour of Varlamov. A 21 year old goalie. Boudreau had no faith in Theo and gave up on him immediately. I watched a lot of Caps games before ATDHE went to crap and Theodore absolutely stunk many of the games.

You honestly believe that if Price was playing the way he has been, had there been any other GM in this league other than BG at the helm that Price would be starting?

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04-30-2009, 01:53 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
The problem is Halak will ask for a trade sooner than later, you can't keep being put under the bus because the GM of your team HOPES your #1 (who was given to him), who was put there for no apparent reason other than HOPE, keeps getting starts no matter how well you play.
Ok, but if Halak gets traded, then you get a quality backup in return, you can't have Marc Denis as the backup to Price, imo.

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He did not champion Denis as some kind of perfect backup for Price, but said that he could be useful if Halak leaves or is traded (or if Price or Halak is injured, i guess). If we let him go, we would have nobody else on the radar within the organization (which was the focus of the article). No racist french media (tm) agenda here, and it is insulting that you and others jump on this as if it were.
To me to even suggest Denis as any sort of NHL backup, at least on a team that is looking to make the playoffs, is off base. Granted as your 3rd string goalies if both get injured then yea he can fill in for some games but we need a very good backup to Price going into next season. Granted my French isn't all that good but to suggest Halak leaving (when he can't just up and leave) and to have Denis as a possible replacement is very questionable. Now add to that, he's suggesting we get rid of our 2nd leading scorer among the forwards this year and while you may say there's no agenda, it at least appears as so to me. If I'm wrong then so be it.

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04-30-2009, 01:54 PM
  #61
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Hold it against him? It wasn't me that said he would be the best second line center in the league...if you left Malkin out....
He meant Saku is a good center based on a regular definition of 2nd liner. It's like saying Loui Eriksson is one of the best 2nd line wingers, if you don't count guys like Alexander Semin. What's so strange about that?

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04-30-2009, 01:56 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Hold it against him? It wasn't me that said he would be the best second line center in the league...if you left Malkin out....




You honestly believe that if Price was playing the way he has been, had there been any other GM in this league other than BG at the helm that Price would be starting?
And who's a better goalie than Price that was available? Please. I'd like to know. Cause it sure wasn't Jose or Cristo.

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04-30-2009, 01:57 PM
  #63
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Demers is saying that he could be a potential backup if Halak is unhappy and therefore leaves or is traded. The article was specific in mentionning only players we already have. The potential backups we have are either Denis, Desjardins, or Lacasse. Which of them should he have suggested? Which answer would NOT make him a racist in your mind? Because wou said:
Halak is part of our team, he's under contract. So, if Demers can flirt with the idea that Jaro wouldn't be happy as a back up, we'd have to trade him.
Now, if we trade him, we better bring in a decent Veteran because just the idea of having Denis as back up makes me want to vomit.

If we do bring in a veteran, it needs to be someone that had a good career and is still respected. There's a reason why Denis is in the AHL and it's not age. He simply wasn't good and I don't want him giving advice to Price.
To be honest, I don't even think Price would listen to him.

How would you feel if they brought in someone to teach you things at your job except the guy wasn't good at it, hasn't been effective at your position in over 6years, and in the past 2years was downgraded. I'm sure you'd listen to all his tips..

Denis is not a good back up.

Personally, I'd go after Khabibulin.

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04-30-2009, 02:22 PM
  #64
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People like to bash reporters but I have to say, I agree with about 80-90% of what Jacques Demers just said.

Kovalev and Tanguay should stay on this team because their talent is needed and there isn't much on the UFA market to replace them. Dandenault proved to be very versatile this year and if it wasn't for the combination of hi m being injured and Carbonneau keeping him in his doghouse then more people would have appreciated his play this year. Komisarek is not worth anything over 4 million but I believe that he will get a huge offer from another team.

The only thing that I would do different is offer a contract to Koivu. Nothing huge but enough to say that we are interested in him because he can till perform. All in all, I pretty much agree with what he has to say.

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04-30-2009, 02:50 PM
  #65
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Now add to that, he's suggesting we get rid of our 2nd leading scorer among the forwards this year and while you may say there's no agenda, it at least appears as so to me. If I'm wrong then so be it.
So if a francophone thinks we should let Koivu go he automatically has an agenda? Did anglophones howling about Theodore, Ribeiro and Brisebois have an agenda too? Wow i'm learning all kinds of stuff today.

I have an agenda too by the way. Here it is:



As a francophone, are there other opinions I'm forbidden to have? Please do tell.

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04-30-2009, 02:51 PM
  #66
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He wants to get rid of Koivu. What a surprise

I used to respect you Jacques, but you've really lowered yourself to the level of a true mediot. I hope you enjoy those ratings you sellout ****.

Koivu needs to go....we need an actual leader on this team....and after watching this season unfold with its problems....Koivu never done or said 1 thing to turn things around.

I support EVERYTHING Jacques Demers said in this article.

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04-30-2009, 03:37 PM
  #67
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So if a francophone thinks we should let Koivu go he automatically has an agenda? Did anglophones howling about Theodore, Ribeiro and Brisebois have an agenda too? Wow i'm learning all kinds of stuff today.

As a francophone, are there other opinions I'm forbidden to have? Please do tell.
If someone says we should let Koivu go and then goes on to say Marc Denis could be the backup, I would either say they are nuts or have some sort of agenda.

There's clearly a lot of hate from the local media towards Koivu, so either you being an ass or you don't follow the media much.

As for your agenda and your opinions, I couldn't give a ****, your not in the media as far as I know.

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Koivu needs to go....we need an actual leader on this team....and after watching this season unfold with its problems....Koivu never done or said 1 thing to turn things around.

I support EVERYTHING Jacques Demers said in this article.
I'm shocked

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04-30-2009, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mtlloveslucic View Post
If someone says we should let Koivu go and then goes on to say Marc Denis could be the backup, I would either say they are nuts or have some sort of agenda.

There's clearly a lot of hate from the local media towards Koivu, so either you being an ass or you don't follow the media much.

As for your agenda and your opinions, I couldn't give a ****, your not in the media as far as I know.



I'm shocked
Exactly. They're fine with the status quo and keeping even Marc Denis but not SAKU KOIVU. Please, that's an objective opinion

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04-30-2009, 03:46 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Koivu needs to go....we need an actual leader on this team....and after watching this season unfold with its problems....Koivu never done or said 1 thing to turn things around.

I support EVERYTHING Jacques Demers said in this article.

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04-30-2009, 03:46 PM
  #70
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Koivu needs to go....we need an actual leader on this team....and after watching this season unfold with its problems....Koivu never done or said 1 thing to turn things around.

I support EVERYTHING Jacques Demers said in this article.
how do you know Koivu said nothing? What about Carbo and Gainey, the two guys that had the most say and possible impact to make change. What the hell were the assistant Captains doing? Kovalev woke about 75% of the way through the year. Higgins? Komisarek? They sound like university players and can articulate pretty well unfortunately their play backed nothing up.

Koivu is not the Wizard of Oz.

He can't put courage into Plekanec.
He can't put heart into Akosts
He can't put brains into Komisarek and Hamrlik

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04-30-2009, 03:50 PM
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I think that the way Koivu is playing on the ice is not the reason why so much fan swant him out of Montreal. IMO, it's got more to do with what Koivu represent. Since he's our captain we never won anything. People don't care that he played with mediocre player for most of his career, they want result right now.

It's certaintly not my way of seeing, but I'm sure the band-wagon fan see it that way.

I think we really should sign Koivu. He always give 100%, have a great attitude, he's respected around the league and could be sign for a cheap contract by today standard. Plus, our depth at the center is so poor, we just can't let Koivu go.

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04-30-2009, 03:55 PM
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I think that the way Koivu is playing on the ice is not the reason why so much fan swant him out of Montreal. IMO, it's got more to do with what Koivu represent. Since he's our captain we never won anything. People don't care that he played with mediocre player for most of his career, they want result right now.

It's certaintly not my way of seeing, but I'm sure the band-wagon fan see it that way.
The fans grossly think like the medias talk. If Jacques Demers said that, then many will believe it. And it isn't because some fans seeing that way we have to drop him. Saku is far to be the problem and if we lose him, the problem will be undoubtedly bigger.

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04-30-2009, 03:56 PM
  #73
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Ok but that still doesn't make sense then cause Marc Denis is not under contract with the Habs for next season. Also he's still saying that Denis could be a backup to Price and that is crazy. Halak is under contract, so where is he going to go to begin with? if he's traded, then the GM needs to have a replacement and it hopefully isn't Marc Denis.
I would also add that:

Demers said he's fine with Denis as an insurance policy (i.e. 3rd goalie) and maybe as a 2nd to Price BUT he didnt saw enough of Denis to makes a decision...

Looks to me he's in complete agreement with you...

He's simply saying he didnt saw enough of Denis to make a case for him as a 2nd goalie, so it's up to the team and IF he is, then Halak is trade bait as he also think he's worth more than most people believe.

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04-30-2009, 03:59 PM
  #74
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Wow, I've hated Demers' analysis of the team all season but that article is great threw and threw. The idea of keeping Koivu is a complete joke. Normally he would suck from January to the start of the playoffs where in the end that's where he would save his season and the reasoning behind his contract. Againts Boston he spent more time on his but then any other player on the team, it was really frustrating at times, it's time for the team to take a new direction with a REAL n.1 center, Demers is right. Plekanec is cheaper, younger and could fill the shoes of a n.3 center, got get Lapperriere to fill Kosto's shoes, he'sa home gorwn talent who's not afraid to drop em and can actually wein a fight from time to time, and then we get the absolute best n.4 center in the league with Lappierre, with Stewart and Laraque. The only UFA i keep is Tanguay, he's still 28 and has the ability to make the players around him better. For the n.2 role i'd give the chance to Maxwell to show what he's got behind a center who's atleast 6'2, like Marleau or Thornton or Lecavalier. If we can't get somebody up front then invest in the back end, sign Bouwmester to whatever price necessary, play him with Markov to have a killer n.1 D unit, then play Subban with Hammer and got get Hannan for Halak and Georges to play with Weber. I know it's a very unique opinion, but that's how i would play it.

My team

Tanguay-Marleau-A.Kost
Latendresse-Maxwell-S.Kost
Higgins-Plekanec-Lapperriere
Stewart-Lappierre-Laraque
D'Agostini

Markov-J-Bow
Subban-Hammer
Weber-Hannan

Price
Halak

no dead weight, and the team could fit under the cap

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04-30-2009, 04:00 PM
  #75
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I would also add that:

Demers said he's fine with Denis as an insurance policy (i.e. 3rd goalie) and maybe as a 2nd to Price BUT he didnt saw enough of Denis to makes a decision...

Looks to me he's in complete agreement with you...

He's simply saying he didnt saw enough of Denis to make a case for him as a 2nd goalie, so it's up to the team and IF he is, then Halak is trade bait as he also think he's worth more than most people believe.
Then I can't understand Demers here, that makes no sense,

Halak= under contract next year
Denis= not under contract next year

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