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Jacques Demers: Who should stay and who should leave

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:02 PM
  #76
Maxpac
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Originally Posted by mtlloveslucic View Post
If someone says we should let Koivu go and then goes on to say Marc Denis could be the backup, I would either say they are nuts or have some sort of agenda.

There's clearly a lot of hate from the local media towards Koivu, so either you being an ass or you don't follow the media much.

As for your agenda and your opinions, I couldn't give a ****, your not in the media as far as I know.



I'm shocked
What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract and why can't Denis (a veteran who will accept his n.2 role) be Price's backup, he's been in the league for many years and likes it here.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:07 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by mtlloveslucic View Post
Then I can't understand Demers here, that makes no sense,

Halak= under contract next year
Denis= not under contract next year
Packaging Halak with other players/drafts picks for a center, then signing Marc Denis to a new contract?

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04-30-2009, 05:07 PM
  #78
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the way I see it is, if Koivu goes to another team, we may as wellgo in full out rebuilding mode because we are ****ed without him. There are no other alternatives to put in his place from within or even really from without. If we are looking at going into next season with Pleks and Laps as our top 2 centers then what's the point of even pretending to be contenders? That is why I think guys like Demers are ****ing retarded. What is th epoint in bringing back Tanguay and Kovalev without a decent center on the top 2 lines? Do you think Detroit would bring back guys like Franzen if they were going into next season with Draper as their top center?

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Wow, I've hated Demers' analysis of the team all season but that article is great threw and threw. The idea of keeping Koivu is a complete joke. Normally he would suck from January to the start of the playoffs where in the end that's where he would save his season and the reasoning behind his contract. Againts Boston he spent more time on his but then any other player on the team, it was really frustrating at times, it's time for the team to take a new direction with a REAL n.1 center, Demers is right. Plekanec is cheaper, younger and could fill the shoes of a n.3 center, got get Lapperriere to fill Kosto's shoes, he'sa home gorwn talent who's not afraid to drop em and can actually wein a fight from time to time, and then we get the absolute best n.4 center in the league with Lappierre, with Stewart and Laraque. The only UFA i keep is Tanguay, he's still 28 and has the ability to make the players around him better. For the n.2 role i'd give the chance to Maxwell to show what he's got behind a center who's atleast 6'2, like Marleau or Thornton or Lecavalier. If we can't get somebody up front then invest in the back end, sign Bouwmester to whatever price necessary, play him with Markov to have a killer n.1 D unit, then play Subban with Hammer and got get Hannan for Halak and Georges to play with Weber. I know it's a very unique opinion, but that's how i would play it.

My team

Tanguay-Marleau-A.Kost
Latendresse-Maxwell-S.Kost
Higgins-Plekanec-Lapperriere
Stewart-Lappierre-Laraque
D'Agostini

Markov-J-Bow
Subban-Hammer
Weber-Hannan

Price
Halak

no dead weight, and the team could fit under the cap
you think that replacing Koivu with Maxwell will make us a contender? Maxwell has about as much of a future as Corey Locke.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract and why can't Denis (a veteran who will accept his n.2 role) be Price's backup, he's been in the league for many years and likes it here.
Koivu was 2nd among forwards on the Habs in scoring, led the Habs in faceoff percentage, and if you don't sign Koivu, who do you replace him with? What has Denis done to deserve to be the #2 goalie?

Unless you're thinking of blowing up the Habs and rebuilding, then not re-signing Koivu makes sense. With there seemingly being no viable alternatives at centre, Koivu has to be re-signed.

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04-30-2009, 05:12 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Koivu was 2nd among forwards on the Habs in scoring, led the Habs in faceoff percentage, and if you don't sign Koivu, who do you replace him with? What has Denis done to deserve to be the #2 goalie?
Exactly. It makes no sense to get rid of Koivu and keep Denis. Why trade Halak at all? What's with this need to make impulsive moves. Just stay the ****ing course. Halak is a good goalie. Better than Denis. Koivu is better than anyone available. Keep him.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract and why can't Denis (a veteran who will accept his n.2 role) be Price's backup, he's been in the league for many years and likes it here.


He did enough to be center #1 on some teams and one of the best 2nd center of in the league...

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:17 PM
  #83
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I like and respect Demers. I disagree with some of his conclusions and agree with others. To me, Denis is a no go as back-up if the organization can keep Halak, or even if they can't keep him. I agree concerning Koivu. He just doesn't have it anymore, not if this team is to challenge. I agree with Demer's suggestion to keep Kovalev as well. This guy is gold for the Habs. I disagree with him wanting to see Lang let go based on his age, I hope the Habs keep this player. Tanguay?...Meh.

The D? Should have been addressed last post-season. Hope the organization does a lot of work in this off-season.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
you think that replacing Koivu with Maxwell will make us a contender? Maxwell has about as much of a future as Corey Locke.
no, i think that replacing Koivu with Marleau and Maxwell with Plekanec will make us more of a contender. That last part of your post, between you and me we'll pretend you never said that...

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post


He did enough to be center #1 on some teams and one of the best 2nd center of in the league...
what team? Trashers?, Islanders? that's no competitive team

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:40 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
no, i think that replacing Koivu with Marleau and Maxwell with Plekanec will make us more of a contender. That last part of your post, between you and me we'll pretend you never said that...
oh yes, because Maxwell has shown so much so far in his career. Even still, inserting him into the 2nd line and calling us a contender is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard, not to mention you magically inserted Marleau into the lineup without dealing any assets. The Sharks are not going to trade their captain for prospects, so get that idea out of your head. It will take serious, nhl proven assets to aquire Marleau.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
no, i think that replacing Koivu with Marleau and Maxwell with Plekanec will make us more of a contender. That last part of your post, between you and me we'll pretend you never said that...
What do you intend to pay for Marleau? Please, I'd like to know. Either your offer will be an overpayment or SJ probably won't accept because it's too little (which is my guess). Oh and most importantly MARLEAU HAS A NTC. He doesn't want to come to Montreal. Didn't he refuse to waive his NTC last time? What makes you think he'll waive it to come to Montreal now?

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04-30-2009, 05:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
oh yes, because Maxwell has shown so much so far in his career. Even still, inserting him into the 2nd line and calling us a contender is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard, not to mention you magically inserted Marleau into the lineup without dealing any assets. The Sharks are not going to trade their captain for prospects, so get that idea out of your head. It will take serious, nhl proven assets to aquire Marleau.
Then you just tweak the line-up, notice how Pacioretty or Mcdonagh are not in, i'm not here to make concrete trade proposals, just expressing an idea

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04-30-2009, 05:50 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by John Ho View Post
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/273868.html




You are the one bringing up a player's ethnicity, not Jacques Demers.
I'm guessing you don't read French:

Le seul regret qui me préoccupe c’est que je laisserais malheureusement partir trois Québécois

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04-30-2009, 05:51 PM
  #90
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Koivu (with other players) is going to join his brother in min, with Gaborik coming the other way. Both teams get a welcomed changed.

Kovalev gets the C.

End of story

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04-30-2009, 05:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Then you just tweak the line-up, notice how Pacioretty or Mcdonagh are not in, i'm not here to make concrete trade proposals, just expressing an idea
See, this ideas are dreams and they cloud your judgement. That's the problem. If you think it through, you'll realize guys like Marleau don't fall out of trees.

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04-30-2009, 05:52 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by mtlloveslucic View Post
I agree, Koivu is getting old, his body has taken a beating, but how many forwards on the Habs had more points then Koivu? 1. I really do hope Koivu leaves, but for different reasons, I thought his line looked great when they were put together until Tanguay got injured, but the problem is, if you lose Koivu, who is going to replace him? Lang? I like Lang and would bring him back for sure, but something about Lang, Pleks, Lappy and Metro as our 4 centers makes me feel sick for the start of next season.

My problem is the article, how the **** can you say get rid of Koivu but then say have Marc Denis as the backup. If people actually saw Denis in the playoffs the other week, I highly doubt they would be calling for Denis to be the backup to Price unless the only thing that matters is where the player is from. Don't get me wrong I like Denis as the 3rd goalie, but to suggest him as the 2nd goalie is crazy imo.
not sure if you read french well or not, but from what I read, he says that he didn't see Denis much this season, and that "IF" Denis can handle the #2 role (also pointing out that the habs need a #2 that can play quite a bit) he would be an ideal veteran to back up Price...

he mentions at the end that he regrets having to let go of three quebec-born players, and i suspect that his idea that Denis would be ideal (again, "IF" he can handle the #2 duties) has much to do with him being from Quebec, but on that I tend to agree. If we can add a Quebec born player to fill a roster need properly, we should imo.

I'm not particularly a fan of Demers, or his opinions, but I thought this piece was well thought out and he justified his decisions very well (even if i don't agree with all of them).

reading a lot of the posts in this thread, it seems like people are getting upset over nothing.
He's a media person putting out his suggestions in a very non-inflammatory way. Nothing controversial at all with what he put out there.

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04-30-2009, 05:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Then you just tweak the line-up, notice how Pacioretty or Mcdonagh are not in, i'm not here to make concrete trade proposals, just expressing an idea
tweak the lineup? The lineup you proposed is just flat out unrealistic and probably no better than what we currently have. I fail to see how removing Koivu, Lang and Komisarek in favour of Marleau, Maxwell and Bouwmeester is an upgrade. its a clear step backwards because you failed to address what our problems are, and no to mention you failed to account for aquiring Marleau in the first place.

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04-30-2009, 05:56 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BurnsWRC View Post
Koivu (with other players) is going to join his brother in min, with Gaborik coming the other way. Both teams get a welcomed changed.

Kovalev gets the C.

End of story
First of all, there's no guarantee Gaborik comes here. I will be very shocked if he does. Second of all, who the hell do you plan on playing as the second line center? Wouldn't it make sense to get Gaborik and Koivu? Don't tell me you actually think Lang is better than Saku Koivu. What is it with the vendetta people have against him? You don't just change players for the sake of change. That is seriously the stupidest idea ever. Do you see Detroit dumping guys like Maltby, Draper, Holmstrom, Osgood, Lidstrom or anyone else for the sake of change? Did they do it after some disappointing playoff performances? NO! They stayed the course. If you make a change, it has to be for a reason. It has to improve the team. The captain is just one player. Getting rid of him won't make your team better. It will probably make it worse.

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04-30-2009, 05:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
See, this ideas are dreams and they cloud your judgement. That's the problem. If you think it through, you'll realize guys like Marleau don't fall out of trees.
Maybe, But San Jose just lost in 4 games after winning the Presidents trophy, as for your other post, i think somewhere along the lines of Pacioretty or Higgins + 1st in 2010 should be a fair deal imo

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04-30-2009, 05:57 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
no, i think that replacing Koivu with Marleau and Maxwell with Plekanec will make us more of a contender. That last part of your post, between you and me we'll pretend you never said that...
Why would you replace Koivu with Marleau? It makes no sense. Marleau has proven nothing without Thornton and disappears during important games.

Koivu has proven everything while playing with nobody his entire career and shows up when he has to, no other player on our team shows up like Koivu does.

People who want Koivu gone, don't want him gone because of his play or character, they want him gone for political reasons and that's it.

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04-30-2009, 05:58 PM
  #97
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Maybe, But San Jose just lost in 4 games after winning the Presidents trophy, as for your other post, i think somewhere along the lines of Pacioretty or Higgins + 1st in 2010 should be a fair deal imo
That's absolutely insane, I think Thornton got traded for less. What a terrible deal. We lose a potential 2nd line powerfoward a 2nd line winger, what could be a high first for a second line center who disappears during important games.

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04-30-2009, 06:01 PM
  #98
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I'm guessing you don't read French:

Le seul regret qui me préoccupe c’est que je laisserais malheureusement partir trois Québécois
So? He actually said that he would LET THEM GO. The other poster was accusing Demers of racism because he wanted to keep Denis as an option in case Halak leaves. Demers' analysis was completely neutral to ethnicity but I guess that's not enough for some people.

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04-30-2009, 06:03 PM
  #99
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Maybe, But San Jose just lost in 4 games after winning the Presidents trophy, as for your other post, i think somewhere along the lines of Pacioretty or Higgins + 1st in 2010 should be a fair deal imo
That is NOT a fair deal. They won't accept it. Marleau won't waive his NTC either.

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04-30-2009, 06:06 PM
  #100
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That's absolutely insane, I think Thornton got traded for less. What a terrible deal. We lose a potential 2nd line powerfoward a 2nd line winger, what could be a high first for a second line center who disappears during important games.
That's the cost for a 70 point player nowadays, Marleau and
Thornton's value are about the same because has been with the team from the start of his career and is there leader, and btw, San Jose robbed Boston badly in the deal, there is no comparison to do there...

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