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Jacques Demers: Who should stay and who should leave

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:07 PM
  #101
Maxpac
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That is NOT a fair deal. They won't accept it. Marleau won't waive his NTC either.
O boy, now i got one who says we get robbed and now another saying they get robbed...

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04-30-2009, 05:12 PM
  #102
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Wow, I've hated Demers' analysis of the team all season but that article is great threw and threw. The idea of keeping Koivu is a complete joke. Normally he would suck from January to the start of the playoffs where in the end that's where he would save his season and the reasoning behind his contract. Againts Boston he spent more time on his but then any other player on the team, it was really frustrating at times, it's time for the team to take a new direction with a REAL n.1 center, Demers is right. Plekanec is cheaper, younger and could fill the shoes of a n.3 center, got get Lapperriere to fill Kosto's shoes, he'sa home gorwn talent who's not afraid to drop em and can actually wein a fight from time to time, and then we get the absolute best n.4 center in the league with Lappierre, with Stewart and Laraque. The only UFA i keep is Tanguay, he's still 28 and has the ability to make the players around him better. For the n.2 role i'd give the chance to Maxwell to show what he's got behind a center who's atleast 6'2, like Marleau or Thornton or Lecavalier. If we can't get somebody up front then invest in the back end, sign Bouwmester to whatever price necessary, play him with Markov to have a killer n.1 D unit, then play Subban with Hammer and got get Hannan for Halak and Georges to play with Weber. I know it's a very unique opinion, but that's how i would play it.

My team

Tanguay-Marleau-A.Kost
Latendresse-Maxwell-S.Kost
Higgins-Plekanec-Lapperriere
Stewart-Lappierre-Laraque
D'Agostini

Markov-J-Bow
Subban-Hammer
Weber-Hannan

Price
Halak

no dead weight, and the team could fit under the cap
No dead weight , but your 2nd line sucks.What exactly did we trade to get Marleau? If you're going to post a lineup at least let it make sense

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04-30-2009, 05:12 PM
  #103
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That's the cost for a 70 point player nowadays, Marleau and
Thornton's value are about the same because has been with the team from the start of his career and is there leader, and btw, San Jose robbed Boston badly in the deal, there is no comparison to do there...
San Jose, if they did move Marleau, would be looking at something that could help them now. Higgins would be a must, but their interest in MaxPac is probably low. They would probably be more interested in aquiring somebody more proven, and better, or possibly somebody to replace Blake. We simply do not have anything like that.

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04-30-2009, 05:12 PM
  #104
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O boy, now i got one who says we get robbed and now another saying they get robbed...
That's because he misread and thought it meant both Higgins and Pacioretty would be in the deal. I think that would be an overpayment for us. The alternative is to just keep Koivu and all that stuff, which would be better. As you can see, trading isn't as easy as it looks. Why do you think so few big names were traded at the deadline? It was a bunch of average players who got traded.

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04-30-2009, 05:13 PM
  #105
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What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract and why can't Denis (a veteran who will accept his n.2 role) be Price's backup, he's been in the league for many years and likes it here.
What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract?..
How about loyalty?..The guy could have easily asked to get out of town when our team was going nowhere.

People whine about players not wanting to come here, but the ones that want to stay here..

The day Koivu signs as a support player on another team, all the media will go nuts about how Gainey kept Koivu as a #1 center instead of getting a true #1 and making him #2.

With all the crap Koivu's been through here, he very well deserves another contract.
Like I said before though, he has to be a support player to be most effective.


Marc Denis is pure garbage, that's why he shouldn't be the back up of Price. You want a good veteran, someone that's been close to the top at some point in his career. Denis didn't go anywhere.

I'd try to bring in Khabibulin.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:13 PM
  #106
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First of all, there's no guarantee Gaborik comes here. I will be very shocked if he does. Second of all, who the hell do you plan on playing as the second line center? Wouldn't it make sense to get Gaborik and Koivu? Don't tell me you actually think Lang is better than Saku Koivu. What is it with the vendetta people have against him? You don't just change players for the sake of change. That is seriously the stupidest idea ever. Do you see Detroit dumping guys like Maltby, Draper, Holmstrom, Osgood, Lidstrom or anyone else for the sake of change? Did they do it after some disappointing playoff performances? NO! They stayed the course. If you make a change, it has to be for a reason. It has to improve the team. The captain is just one player. Getting rid of him won't make your team better. It will probably make it worse.
Dude, thats not the only change i would do to the team. But I agree with Demers, we both need a change. Koivu has been captain since 1999, call me superstitious but we havent won anything with him. He has heart and for that I think hes awesome. He might have been a great captain at some point, but teams change, and this new team needs a tough captain. Again, im just being realistic.

I personally am dissappointed that he didnt take control of this team when it was collapsing. All his interviews felt the same, yes he was dissappointed but in my opinion, not enough.

We need a tough captain and leader.

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04-30-2009, 05:16 PM
  #107
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I personally am dissappointed that he didnt take control of this team when it was colapsing. All his interviews felt the same, yes he was dissappointed but in my opinion, not enough.

We need a tough captain and leader.
I'm really disappointed he's not a miracle worker too. It sure would have been great if he could rub his hands together, touch the players on their injured parts, and voila!.. Cured!


Are you around the team to know what he's tried to do or not??..
No. So stop talking as if you know.

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04-30-2009, 05:20 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BurnsWRC View Post
Dude, thats not the only change i would do to the team. But I agree with Demers, we both need a change. Koivu has been captain since 1999, call me superstitious but we havent won anything with him. He has heart and for that I think hes awesome. He might have been a great captain at some point, but teams change, and this new team needs a tough captain. Again, im just being realistic.

I personally am dissappointed that he didnt take control of this team when it was colapsing. All his interviews felt the same, yes he was dissappointed but in my opinion, not enough.

We need a tough captain and leader.
Hockey is a team game. Get that through your head. How good of a leader did you think Yzerman was when he failed all those years in the playoffs? Is Jarome Iginla a failure? (I seriously hope you don't believe that). How about Datsuyk? He had that contract dispute, even threatening to go to Russia. Add in some blah playoff performances and you probably wanted him gone. Look at him now. It's a question of the team's ability. A single player can't take the team on his back. Not even Datsyuk. Not Yzerman. Not Iginla. Being a captain doesn't mean you have to be a superhero.

Take a control? What exactly did you want him to do? If you feel that publicly criticizing the team would make them better, then you're wrong. Do real leaders do that? Does Joe Sakic do that? NO! Where was Joe when Quebec never went anywhere in the playoffs? It's never about one player.

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04-30-2009, 05:22 PM
  #109
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What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract and why can't Denis (a veteran who will accept his n.2 role) be Price's backup, he's been in the league for many years and likes it here.
Koivu was 2nd on the team in scoring among our forwards, clearly he's not the problem. But I'm fine with him leaving, but there's no one to replace him.

Denis has been in the league and like it here, oh well that settles it then, who cares about winning, your right let's go with him then.

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Packaging Halak with other players/drafts picks for a center, then signing Marc Denis to a new contract?
Yea that would be a stupid thing to do. Denis couldn't get the job done in the AHL but yea let's promote him to the NHL, sounds good.

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no, i think that replacing Koivu with Marleau and Maxwell with Plekanec will make us more of a contender. That last part of your post, between you and me we'll pretend you never said that...
Good luck with that. First off Marleau has either a NMC or at the least a NTC and Maxwell replacing Pleks I at least got a good laugh from. At least both are soft 2 way centers.

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not sure if you read french well or not, but from what I read, he says that he didn't see Denis much this season, and that "IF" Denis can handle the #2 role (also pointing out that the habs need a #2 that can play quite a bit) he would be an ideal veteran to back up Price...

he mentions at the end that he regrets having to let go of three quebec-born players, and i suspect that his idea that Denis would be ideal (again, "IF" he can handle the #2 duties) has much to do with him being from Quebec, but on that I tend to agree. If we can add a Quebec born player to fill a roster need properly, we should imo.
No I don't read French all that well, I'm self taught and still have trouble with lots of words.

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04-30-2009, 05:23 PM
  #110
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Koivu was 2nd on the team in scoring among our forwards, clearly he's not the problem. But I'm fine with him leaving, but there's no one to replace him.

Denis has been in the league and like it here, oh well that settles it then, who cares about winning, your right let's go with him then.



Yea that would be a stupid thing to do. Denis couldn't get the job done in the AHL but yea let's promote him to the NHL, sounds good.



Good luck with that. First off Marleau has either a NMC or at the least a NTC and Maxwell replacing Pleks I at least got a good laugh from. At least both are soft 2 way centers.
Not only is Marleau not suited to center since he doesn't win draws or have a lot of playmaking ability, but he played at wing this year and proved it was a better fit for him. Patty is a goal-scoring winger through and through. So how does he replace our playmaker in Koivu? Please. Not to mention Marleau doesn't show up in the playoffs. Or that he has a NTC and would hate it here.

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04-30-2009, 05:23 PM
  #111
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jacques used to be great but has now gone whack....he has been spending too much time with the ****ers in the media and has now become one of them. We should stop posting what these people say.

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Old
04-30-2009, 05:29 PM
  #112
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Hockey is a team game. Get that through your head. How good of a leader did you think Yzerman was when he failed all those years in the playoffs? Is Jarome Iginla a failure? (I seriously hope you don't believe that). How about Datsuyk? He had that contract dispute, even threatening to go to Russia. Add in some blah playoff performances and you probably wanted him gone. Look at him now. It's a question of the team's ability. A single player can't take the team on his back. Not even Datsyuk. Not Yzerman. Not Iginla. Being a captain doesn't mean you have to be a superhero.

Take a control? What exactly did you want him to do? If you feel that publicly criticizing the team would make them better, then you're wrong. Do real leaders do that? Does Joe Sakic do that? NO! Where was Joe when Quebec never went anywhere in the playoffs? It's never about one player.
I never mentioned anywhere that I thought Koivu was a failure. Hes has tons of heart and a good sense of leadership, just maybe not the type of leadership this current team needs.

As someone mentioned earlier, i wasnt in the locker with them to know how he would have taken control. But I hope we all agree, Koivu isnt the most vocal person on this team (vocal with the team not the media). I think this is what we need. Just my opinion.

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04-30-2009, 05:29 PM
  #113
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What did Koivu do to deserve a new contract?..
How about loyalty?..The guy could have easily asked to get out of town when our team was going nowhere.

People whine about players not wanting to come here, but the ones that want to stay here..

The day Koivu signs as a support player on another team, all the media will go nuts about how Gainey kept Koivu as a #1 center instead of getting a true #1 and making him #2.

With all the crap Koivu's been through here, he very well deserves another contract.
Like I said before though, he has to be a support player to be most effective.


Marc Denis is pure garbage, that's why he shouldn't be the back up of Price. You want a good veteran, someone that's been close to the top at some point in his career. Denis didn't go anywhere.

I'd try to bring in Khabibulin.
The thing with Khabibulin is that he will be looking to be a number 1 and will be looking for number 1 money. To me, it is a foregone conclusion Khabibulin will be tending goal in Philly next season.

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04-30-2009, 05:36 PM
  #114
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I never mentioned anywhere that I thought Koivu was a failure. Hes has tons of heart and a good sense of leadership, just maybe not the type of leadership this current team needs.

As someone mentioned earlier, i wasnt in the locker with them to know how he would have taken control. But I hope we all agree, Koivu isnt the most vocal person on this team (vocal with the team not the media). I think this is what we need. Just my opinion.
So I got you to admit Koivu has tons of heart and a "good sense of leadership." He's just not vocal with the media. How do we know how he's like in the locker? Why does a guy have to want to talk to the media in order to be a good leader? Sorry, that's not the leader's job and, if you think that he any duty whatsoever to give interviews, you're wrong.

If anything, it's smart for Koivu not to talk to the media. Why are they going to do other than criticize him, anyways, and twist his words? There's really no value to talking to the media. Again, you have no idea what he does in the locker room. So you really can't use that as a strike against him. If you do, then you're just making an assumption that you can't back up.

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04-30-2009, 05:38 PM
  #115
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That's the cost for a 70 point player nowadays, Marleau and
Thornton's value are about the same because has been with the team from the start of his career and is there leader, and btw, San Jose robbed Boston badly in the deal, there is no comparison to do there...
Marleau is someone i don't want on the habs. The sum of the parts just don't add up. He has everything to make a dominant player except heart and whats between his ears.

The guy makes 6.3 million dollars. His numbers have gone up because of Thornton being acquired. In Montreal most likely he goes back to the normal 60 point player he has always been.

He'd be eaten alive with his passionless play. He was by far the WORST San Jose forward in the playoffs. His mentality and type of player is what Montreal needs to get away from.

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04-30-2009, 05:42 PM
  #116
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So I got you to admit Koivu has tons of heart and a "good sense of leadership." He's just not vocal with the media. How do we know how he's like in the locker? Why does a guy have to want to talk to the media in order to be a good leader? Sorry, that's not the leader's job and, if you think that he any duty whatsoever to give interviews, you're wrong.

If anything, it's smart for Koivu not to talk to the media. Why are they going to do other than criticize him, anyways, and twist his words? There's really no value to talking to the media. Again, you have no idea what he does in the locker room. So you really can't use that as a strike against him. If you do, then you're just making an assumption that you can't back up.
I think you miss understood me. I meant that he isnt the most vocal person with the team. I really couldnt care less if he doesnt say a word to the media. Im actually with the guys who think the locker room should be offlimits to the press.

But going back to being vocal with the players, thats the kind of leader I think this team needs. The one we constantly see talking on the ice, giving pointers etc.

Don't hate me on this, but the same thing we saw from Kovy last year when he was constantly talking to Kostitsyn & Plekanec for a few games, giving feedback, ideas on what they can try next.

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04-30-2009, 05:43 PM
  #117
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I don't see any reason to let him walk, I just don't see any sense to it. He's a good player, he'll come at a good contract and we have no one at all to replace him with. The UFA market hasn't been kind to Montreal so that's already one less options and hoping for a trade would be wishfull thinking.

Basically, you're left with resigning Lang to play your first line and hoping Maxwell is ready. He's not though, not even close, we'd be in big trouble if he centered an offensive line regularly.

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04-30-2009, 05:44 PM
  #118
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I think you miss understood me. I meant that he isnt the most vocal person with the team. I really couldnt care less if he doesnt say a word to the media. Im actually with the guys who think the locker room should be offlimits to the press.

But going back to being vocal with the players, thats the kind of leader I think this team needs. The one we constantly see talking on the ice, giving pointers etc.

Don't hate me on this, but the same thing we saw from Kovy last year when he was constantly talking to Kostitsyn & Plekanec for a few games, giving feedback, ideas on what they can try next.
We don't know what Koivu does in the locker room. How would you? All you have to gone is his public demeanor and, like I said, there is nothing wrong with it.

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04-30-2009, 05:49 PM
  #119
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But going back to being vocal with the players, thats the kind of leader I think this team needs. The one we constantly see talking on the ice, giving pointers etc.
I don't know if you aren't watching games or what then because i see Koivu more than anyone talking to his teammates.

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04-30-2009, 05:50 PM
  #120
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I don't know if you aren't watching games or what then because i see Koivu more than anyone talking to his teammates.
Maybe 3 years ago

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04-30-2009, 05:55 PM
  #121
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Marleau is someone i don't want on the habs. The sum of the parts just don't add up. He has everything to make a dominant player except heart and whats between his ears.

The guy makes 6.3 million dollars. His numbers have gone up because of Thornton being acquired. In Montreal most likely he goes back to the normal 60 point player he has always been.

He'd be eaten alive with his passionless play. He was by far the WORST San Jose forward in the playoffs. His mentality and type of player is what Montreal needs to get away from.
I'd rather have Travis Zajac than Marleau, both are 60 point players, just that Zajac brings more heart and maybe we can pry him away from Jersey.

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04-30-2009, 05:57 PM
  #122
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I'd rather have Travis Zajac than Marleau, both are 60 point players, just that Zajac brings more heart and maybe we can pry him away from Jersey.
Zajac is far too loyal to jump ship. Lou runs his team like the mafia: once you're in, you can't get out until Lou says so. The only true defector has been Gome$. Rafalski left only because Lou gave him a very poor offer expecting he wouldn't take it.

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04-30-2009, 06:08 PM
  #123
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Sorry...Weber is not ready to replace Schneider yet and Komi aint signing here. Always loved Jaques, but lately, the tailspin that is the image of the Habs (which is totally out of whack with reality) has gotten to him. Let Koivu go? I think NOT. If the team is willing to commit to the right direction, Koivu will take another home team discount. If it doesn't, then what's the point anyway?

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04-30-2009, 06:27 PM
  #124
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Maybe 3 years ago
then you have a very selective memory.

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04-30-2009, 07:01 PM
  #125
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then you have a very selective memory.
hahah guilty i guess.

I just want change !

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