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Jason Williams - where's the love?

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Old
08-09-2009, 09:13 AM
  #76
CBJSprague24
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I can name a number of current/recently released CBJ players I'd rather have in the lineup over Picard. We'd better not drop seven figures for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
One year @ 1.5MM!

No kidding, can the NHL investigate these clear examples of signing at half price to chase a cup?

The NHLPA should be screaming at stuff like this? When a guy like Hossa admits signing a below market contract (last year) to chase a Cup...and JW...

Nice signing for Detroit, but I sure would have liked to have him for 3 years at about 2.2 per year.

Too much offense for Hitch, I suppose.
Would there have been much of a market for Williams otherwise? From the sound of things, it was Detroit or the KHL, and having a house in Detroit might have helped the decision. I don't know if it was as much taking a deliberate pay cut to chase a cup like Hossa turning down what, $10M from PIT, to hop aboard the Red Wings Bandwagon last year.

Could Detroit have given Jason much more than 1.5 with where they are Cap-wise?


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Old
08-09-2009, 10:17 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
Too much offense for Hitch, I suppose.
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Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
I get so tired of bleeping "grinders". Picard is an out of control and worthless ONE NHL POINT player who does nothing but piss off the other teams, can't fight, or score...
And I get so tired of posters making ignorant, incorrect posts like the one above.

FYI we are already overbudget and have 16 forwards. We have 46 contracts of our 50 allowed contracts and we still need players in syracuse. We still need a defenseman and in order to do that we need to find a way to move a player/contract.

Making some kind of assertion that Picard is going to play in place of Williams is ridiculous. They are hoping that Voracek/Filatov/Brassard/Modin/Torres will be able to fill the scoring that Williams provided...not Picard

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08-09-2009, 10:19 AM
  #78
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There is no way we can say we're a better team WITHOUT Williams

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08-09-2009, 10:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CBJSprague24 View Post
I can name a number of current/recently released CBJ players I'd rather have in the lineup over Picard. We'd better not drop seven figures for him.
I am not saying that Picard is going to come into the league next year and set it on fire, but 19 goals in your last 21 games in the AHL is not something to sneeze at. If he can come in on our 4th line, finally get his first NHL goal and then a few more, he will help us. He DOES get the other teams' attention and a line of Dorsett, Picard, Boll would be a pain in the rump to play against.

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08-09-2009, 12:35 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
There is no way we can say we're a better team WITHOUT Williams
If Filatov comes in and scores thirty goals and sixty points playing in the spot where Williams would have been, I think we can say we're a better team without him.

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08-09-2009, 12:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
If Filatov comes in and scores thirty goals and sixty points playing in the spot where Williams would have been, I think we can say we're a better team without him.
I'd be willing to put my money on Williams putting up more points then Boll

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08-09-2009, 01:50 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
I'd be willing to put my money on Williams putting up more points then Boll
I'd be willing to put my money on Williams putting up more points than our fourth line as well as at least 1 or 2 players on our third line.

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08-09-2009, 02:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
I get so tired of bleeping "grinders". Picard is an out of control and worthless ONE NHL POINT player who does nothing but piss off the other teams, can't fight, or score...

JW is 50 point guy who can play every forward position on every line and play the point on the PP
Oh come on... his two disallowed goals have to count for something

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08-09-2009, 03:40 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
I'd be willing to put my money on Williams putting up more points then Boll
And since Williams is the sort of player who needs a supporting cast of players like, oh, Boll, who actually know what "defense" is... comparing the two players 1:1 as though Boll somehow "takes away" a spot from Williams is completely and utterly without merit. It's about as silly as suggesting that we should have signed Williams as our new offensive defenseman. He has his role; he can't really operate out of it, and we have players that are better at it than him and don't cost as much.

I like how much he helped us out too when we were in a tight spot thanks to injuries, but seriously, get over it.

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08-09-2009, 03:41 PM
  #85
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I'd be willing to put my money on Williams putting up more points than our fourth line as well as at least 1 or 2 players on our third line.
Win.

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08-09-2009, 06:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
And I get so tired of posters making ignorant, incorrect posts like the one above.

FYI we are already overbudget and have 16 forwards. We have 46 contracts of our 50 allowed contracts and we still need players in syracuse. We still need a defenseman and in order to do that we need to find a way to move a player/contract.

Making some kind of assertion that Picard is going to play in place of Williams is ridiculous. They are hoping that Voracek/Filatov/Brassard/Modin/Torres will be able to fill the scoring that Williams provided...not Picard
...okay hashmarks, let's go. What is:

A) ignorant
B) incorrect


Last edited by Double-Shift Lassť: 08-09-2009 at 07:27 PM. Reason: doing you a favor
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Old
08-09-2009, 10:09 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
...okay hashmarks, let's go. What is:

A) ignorant
B) incorrect
Alrighty then...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
One year @ 1.5MM!
Too much offense for Hitch, I suppose.
Ignorant.

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Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
JW is 50 point guy who can play every forward position on every line and play the point on the PP
Incorrect.

Too easy.

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08-09-2009, 10:10 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
And since Williams is the sort of player who needs a supporting cast of players like, oh, Boll, who actually know what "defense" is... comparing the two players 1:1 as though Boll somehow "takes away" a spot from Williams is completely and utterly without merit. It's about as silly as suggesting that we should have signed Williams as our new offensive defenseman. He has his role; he can't really operate out of it, and we have players that are better at it than him and don't cost as much.

I like how much he helped us out too when we were in a tight spot thanks to injuries, but seriously, get over it.
Just the bolded portion...

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08-10-2009, 06:02 AM
  #89
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See the news article (and add what we used him for) below.

1.5MM check
PP Point check
58 points check (and pro-rate what he did for us)
Any line check (Babcock says 1 or 2, and 3 is where we used him)
Any forward position check (watch the games)
"too much offense for Hitch" - is Hitch a defensive minded coach? yeeeessss.

Go ahead and tell me how he is not a 4th line fighter. you win


The Detroit Red Wings have signed the 28-year-old winger to a one-year, $1.5 million contract.
Williams is returning to the team that gave him his first NHL contract, as Detroit originally signed Williams as an undrafted free-agent in 2000.

Williams' best season was in 2005-06, Mike Babcock's first in Detroit, when he posted 21 goals and 37 assists in 80 games. Babcock used Williams frequently on the top two lines, and on the point on the powerplay.

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08-10-2009, 07:08 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
And since Williams is the sort of player who needs a supporting cast of players like, oh, Boll, who actually know what "defense" is... comparing the two players 1:1 as though Boll somehow "takes away" a spot from Williams is completely and utterly without merit. It's about as silly as suggesting that we should have signed Williams as our new offensive defenseman. He has his role; he can't really operate out of it, and we have players that are better at it than him and don't cost as much.

I like how much he helped us out too when we were in a tight spot thanks to injuries, but seriously, get over it.
So Boll is a defensive dynamo...gotcha! You're right, who would check the glass without Boll on our team. And Boll helped us through those times? Seriously, get over it

Boll's roll was filled by Dorsett, there's only room for 1 low NHL skill bruiser on our roster, but apparently not for you. Good thing we got Boll, now Brassard wont have to try and stick up for teamates himself...ohh, wait


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Old
08-10-2009, 07:42 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
See the news article (and add what we used him for) below.

1.5MM check
PP Point check
58 points check (and pro-rate what he did for us)
Any line check (Babcock says 1 or 2, and 3 is where we used him)
Any forward position check (watch the games)
"too much offense for Hitch" - is Hitch a defensive minded coach? yeeeessss.

Go ahead and tell me how he is not a 4th line fighter. you win


The Detroit Red Wings have signed the 28-year-old winger to a one-year, $1.5 million contract.
Williams is returning to the team that gave him his first NHL contract, as Detroit originally signed Williams as an undrafted free-agent in 2000.

Williams' best season was in 2005-06, Mike Babcock's first in Detroit, when he posted 21 goals and 37 assists in 80 games. Babcock used Williams frequently on the top two lines, and on the point on the powerplay.
Do we already have 16 forwards? check

Are we currently at our 50 roster max? check (46 as of a few days ago and the Crunch are stilll short players)

Do we only have 6 NHL defensemen? check

Are we in need of a d man who can move the puck? check

Are we currently at or slight a little over budget? check

Do we need to shed salary and a contract to make room for a dman if we can find one? check

There is a business side to the sport too yanno...sucks, but reality is a biotch.

Is Hitch a defenisve minded coach? According to HF lore? check.

Realistically? He likes ALL HIS PLAYERS TO PLAY BOTH WAYS. His mantra? Everyone checks and everyone scores.

Is Williams effective vs. good players? Nope. Williams has a hard time checking his coat.

I hope Babcock does play him vs. our top 2 lines so we can have our way with him. Babcock will soon learn what he seems to have forgotten about him. I am not sure what news article you are referring too, but I am sure Babcock wouldn't be trying to sell or be positive about their new addition...no, not in the least....

His best season was 2005/06? I guess they loved him so much that they traded him the next year, eh? I guess they just traded him away because...ummm he was just too darn useful??? He averaged just over 14 minutes a night that year so...yeah...I am calling b.s. on the 'played on the top 2 lines' thingy.

He is best used as a winger by us and anytime he was out against other teams' good players, he got buried. The ONLY place he can play on the pp is the point because he is just not competitive enough to win any puck battles. He is okay at the point, but he certainly isn't outstanding. We also have two young guys, Jake and Brass who have played the point on the pp most of their young lives, so...with our current situation, my guess is that they will get a chance again.

Babcock loves him because he had him in either the minors or in jr. (can't remember) and Hitch got his game back to respectability. Notice, however, he wasn't immediately lapped up by the Wings either. He did only sign a few days ago so it wasn't like the wings were coveting his services and couldn't wait to get at him. The wings need inexpensive, warm bodies to fill jersey's and Williams will be a decent add. Read the wings board about him, the majority can't stand the signing and would rather have their young guys do the job he is going to do.

At that price, sure it would be great to have him over Chimmer, but we just don't have to room on the roster to add him. I liked him. I thought he came in and really helped us, but to be making this much fuss over the guy is a bit out of focus.

I can't believe people can't seem to understand that Boll is NOT Williams replacement...


Last edited by hashmarks: 08-10-2009 at 10:03 AM.
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Old
08-10-2009, 09:09 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocbj View Post
See the news article (and add what we used him for) below.

1.5MM check
PP Point check
58 points check (and pro-rate what he did for us)
Any line check (Babcock says 1 or 2, and 3 is where we used him)
Any forward position check (watch the games)
"too much offense for Hitch" - is Hitch a defensive minded coach? yeeeessss.

Go ahead and tell me how he is not a 4th line fighter. you win


The Detroit Red Wings have signed the 28-year-old winger to a one-year, $1.5 million contract.
Williams is returning to the team that gave him his first NHL contract, as Detroit originally signed Williams as an undrafted free-agent in 2000.

Williams' best season was in 2005-06, Mike Babcock's first in Detroit, when he posted 21 goals and 37 assists in 80 games. Babcock used Williams frequently on the top two lines, and on the point on the powerplay.
I can't believe we are still going around in circles about this. I don't post much, but I have been reading...

Everyone seems to forget that when we signed Jason Williams (a winger who can play center), Chimmer had just been injured and would be out for extended time and Brassard had been put on IR for the rest of the season. I think he was a great stop gap for that situation and played well for us.

Moving forward as has been pointed out here are some points to consider...

1) Chimmers back, Brass is back and Filatov is joining the team which already was set numbers-wise for wings.
2) I am not sure how Boll or Picard even come up in this discussion--apples and oranges.
3) Even if we have the $1.5M--I would have been pissed if we spent it on another forward.
4) I like Williams alot, but he was somewhat soft and mishandled the puck more than I would like while on the point. Somehow I remember a shorthanded goal and some more scoring chances for the other teams PK unit.
5) Can't we at least take some satisfaction that the Wings are going for a player that the Blue Jackets passed on??

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08-10-2009, 09:54 AM
  #93
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Well, its still the middle of August, and not much else to talk about

I say give Hitch as much ammo as possible and let him sort it out. Boll (and i agree, have no idea why Picard is even being mentioned) comes up because he's a likely candidate to be shipped back to Syracuse if he doesnt learn how to check or become a much better NHL player.

I never liked Williams on the point for power plays, his best spot is by the dots to the right of the goalie, Commy and Jay practiced 1 timers at that spot at the end of every pre game skate, but that also underscored how f'd up our power play was that we played him on the point instead of that down low position.

I also agree that we need more Dmen, but you can also send either Murray, Boll, or Dorsett (depending on how his sophomore season treats him) down to Syracuse to make up for the Syracuse roster, while stocking your NHL roster with NHL talent. We have to really cross our fingers that we dont get hit for some major injuries. The season somewhat hinges on Brassards ability to stay healthy, Filatov to be a scoring dynamo, and Mason continuing to be the goalie we saw through most of the season.

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08-10-2009, 10:13 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Well, its still the middle of August, and not much else to talk about

I say give Hitch as much ammo as possible and let him sort it out.
Once again you are making comments assuming the competitive side of thing exists in a vacuum, it doesn't. We already have too many forwards, one more without sheddding a contract AND the fact that our real need is a dman is idiotic.

Quote:
Boll (and i agree, have no idea why Picard is even being mentioned) comes up because he's a likely candidate to be shipped back to Syracuse
According to you, not necessarily to the managment.

Quote:
I never liked Williams on the point for power plays, his best spot is by the dots to the right of the goalie, Commy and Jay practiced 1 timers at that spot at the end of every pre game skate, but that also underscored how f'd up our power play was that we played him on the point instead of that down low position.
Post all star break Williams was put on the half wall and Huselius manned a point, it was a disaster. He never got the puck back along the boards, ever. It lasted on a few games and he was back on the point being his average self.

Quote:
I also agree that we need more Dmen, but you can also send either Murray, Boll, or Dorsett (depending on how his sophomore season treats him) down to Syracuse to make up for the Syracuse roster, while stocking your NHL roster with NHL talent.
O'rly? And where do you think we are going to get the money to sign this 'nhl talent'? The young kids work so well within our budget strapped team because they are cheap.

Do you think the owner of the Crunch would appreciate it if Macfarland never gave any thought or consideration into building HIM a good team and just let the jackets cast off all of their players? He wants to make money too and believe it or not, winning also sells in the AHL and it is Macfarlands job to assemble the team down there. What you don't seem to understand or care to grasp is that it isn't as easy as you make it out to be which makes your posts borderline irrelevant.

Quote:
We have to really cross our fingers that we dont get hit for some major injuries. The season somewhat hinges on Brassards ability to stay healthy, Filatov to be a scoring dynamo, and Mason continuing to be the goalie we saw through most of the season.
Just like every other young team who is building from within...

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08-10-2009, 07:47 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Do we already have 16 forwards? check

Are we currently at our 50 roster max? check (46 as of a few days ago and the Crunch are stilll short players)

Do we only have 6 NHL defensemen? check

Are we in need of a d man who can move the puck? check

Are we currently at or slight a little over budget? check

Do we need to shed salary and a contract to make room for a dman if we can find one? check

There is a business side to the sport too yanno...sucks, but reality is a biotch.

Is Hitch a defenisve minded coach? According to HF lore? check.

Realistically? He likes ALL HIS PLAYERS TO PLAY BOTH WAYS. His mantra? Everyone checks and everyone scores.

Is Williams effective vs. good players? Nope. Williams has a hard time checking his coat.

I hope Babcock does play him vs. our top 2 lines so we can have our way with him. Babcock will soon learn what he seems to have forgotten about him. I am not sure what news article you are referring too, but I am sure Babcock wouldn't be trying to sell or be positive about their new addition...no, not in the least....

His best season was 2005/06? I guess they loved him so much that they traded him the next year, eh? I guess they just traded him away because...ummm he was just too darn useful??? He averaged just over 14 minutes a night that year so...yeah...I am calling b.s. on the 'played on the top 2 lines' thingy.

He is best used as a winger by us and anytime he was out against other teams' good players, he got buried. The ONLY place he can play on the pp is the point because he is just not competitive enough to win any puck battles. He is okay at the point, but he certainly isn't outstanding. We also have two young guys, Jake and Brass who have played the point on the pp most of their young lives, so...with our current situation, my guess is that they will get a chance again.

Babcock loves him because he had him in either the minors or in jr. (can't remember) and Hitch got his game back to respectability. Notice, however, he wasn't immediately lapped up by the Wings either. He did only sign a few days ago so it wasn't like the wings were coveting his services and couldn't wait to get at him. The wings need inexpensive, warm bodies to fill jersey's and Williams will be a decent add. Read the wings board about him, the majority can't stand the signing and would rather have their young guys do the job he is going to do.

At that price, sure it would be great to have him over Chimmer, but we just don't have to room on the roster to add him. I liked him. I thought he came in and really helped us, but to be making this much fuss over the guy is a bit out of focus.

I can't believe people can't seem to understand that Boll is NOT Williams replacement...
soooo, while you make several valid points, in summary, my post was neither ignorant nor incorrect.

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08-10-2009, 08:13 PM
  #96
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soooo, while you make several valid points, in summary, my post was neither ignorant nor incorrect.
I guess you missed it the first time so I will try to clarify for you:

You:
Quote:
"too much offense for Hitch" - is Hitch a defensive minded coach? yeeeessss.
Me:
Quote:
Realistically? He likes ALL HIS PLAYERS TO PLAY BOTH WAYS. His mantra? Everyone checks and everyone scores.
That was your 'ignorant portion'.

You:
Quote:
Any forward position check (watch the games)
Did he get used on both the wing and center? Yes. Was he effective in all positions? Nope, hence his inability to 'play any forward position'. That was your 'incorrect portion' although I outlined it a bit differently the first time, see below:

Me:

Quote:
Is Williams effective vs. good players? Nope. Williams has a hard time checking his coat.
Did you catch it this time?


Last edited by hashmarks: 08-10-2009 at 08:20 PM.
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08-11-2009, 05:25 AM
  #97
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good spin.

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08-11-2009, 05:59 AM
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good spin.
hahaha, just another example of 'seeing what we want to see'.

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08-11-2009, 08:09 AM
  #99
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I'd be willing to put my money on Williams putting up more points than our fourth line as well as at least 1 or 2 players on our third line.
haha... I agree with you.

Williams was an expensive depth player for sure, but there was a reason why we needed him. Let's all hope Chimera, Modin, Brassard, and Torres stay injury free.

What's funny is that some people are saying we couldn't "afford" Williams, or that he is somehow not good enough to play on our team -in our system, for our coach. Yet the lowly Red Things had NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER signing him. When will Detroit ever learn

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08-11-2009, 08:11 AM
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And then just wait for our first game against Detroit and he lights us up for 3 pts.

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