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Old
05-06-2009, 04:06 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATHLÉTIQUE_CANADIEN View Post
IMO: Basillie is just a player in this. He isn't the demon who is trying to destroy Phoenix. The problem is with the Coyotes and more so with the NHL. Who or what is the catalyst?

Yesterday at this time the Coyotes were to be most likely sold to Reinsdorf. Fast forward 24 hours later and the team is in bankruptcy. Basillie didn’t create this, the league did with inaction. The fact that Basillie is trying to pry the team away might make him appear the bad guy (and if I was a Coyotes fan I’d see him that way too) but he wasn’t the catalyst. If things were going well for Phoenix, this never would have happened in the 1st place.

Basillie didn’t start this but he’s likely to finish it. And, it's clear that Jerry Moyes was the true culprit. He did after all - open the door on this. I'd call him the catalyst!
I blame both of them. It was an absolute ******* move by Moyes and it's pretty obvious that it had been set up in advance by the two of them.

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05-06-2009, 04:18 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jamie1987 View Post
dont you guys think this team will have a better chance in Canada? I live in Ontario and I would love another team here so I wont sign, no offense to anyone
I'm not surprised (although why you would think we would be at all sympathetic to your position, I'm not too sure... no offense). I do think the team would make more money in Canada, sure - but only as a suck-ass franchise. A successful team wouldn't do any better in Canada than it would here. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
I blame both of them. It was an absolute ******* move by Moyes and it's pretty obvious that it had been set up in advance by the two of them.
Yeah... the legal ramifications of this are going to be ugly and far-reaching, IMO.

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Old
05-06-2009, 04:27 PM
  #78
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Predators fan here who signed your petition. Good luck with your efforts to keep your team and know that you are not alone.

If Southern Ontario wants a team, then I'm all for it assuming it is from expansion and not relocation. And I'd say the same thing if it was a Canadian team possibly moving to the US.

Anyway, off my soapbox... good luck and get things going locally... petitions, rallies, etc.

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Old
05-06-2009, 04:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jamie1987 View Post
dont you guys think this team will have a better chance in Canada? I live in Ontario and I would love another team here so I wont sign, no offense to anyone
A better chance for what?
It all comes down to a poorly managed franchise (something people in Ontario would know nothing about i guess )

IF this team had at least 1 playoff run to the conference championship in the last 2-3 years this would not be happening.

Move this team to Ontario and all it is going to do is give the Leafs another 4 home games to go along with the 4 they get when the play the Sens.

This would be like trying to move the D-Backs to Rhode Island, does anyone honestly think that die hard Red Sox fans out there would switch to a relocated team just beacuse?
Leaf fans remind me a lot of Sox fans in that way, die hard to the core and very loyal.

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Old
05-06-2009, 04:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
I blame both of them. It was an absolute ******* move by Moyes and it's pretty obvious that it had been set up in advance by the two of them.
Yeah, it's a ****** move. But think about the alternative for Moyes:

- There's no way the other owner's proposal was anywhere close to JB's.
- Bettman was ready to remove Moyes.
- Moyes had lost $200 M in equity, he's trying to get something out his $100 M unsecured credit.

Bankruptcy + $212 M allows him to get most of his loans back. Bettman's offer wouldn't have given him that kind of security.

I don't care who you are, $100 M is a LOT of cash for anybody. He's trying to save his own ass. I think most of us would do the same.

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:04 PM
  #81
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Im a bruins fan but i do like the Coyotes and they need to stay atleast in the west, if they move to the east it would screw up everything in the easter conference. If someone buys the team i hope they make a smart move to keep them in Phoenix

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:12 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
Yeah, it's a ****** move. But think about the alternative for Moyes:

- There's no way the other owner's proposal was anywhere close to JB's.
- Bettman was ready to remove Moyes.
- Moyes had lost $200 M in equity, he's trying to get something out his $100 M unsecured credit.

Bankruptcy + $212 M allows him to get most of his loans back. Bettman's offer wouldn't have given him that kind of security.

I don't care who you are, $100 M is a LOT of cash for anybody. He's trying to save his own ass. I think most of us would do the same.
I'd say the Reinsdorf offer would have been in the neighborhood of 100 - 115 M meaning that the debts to the NHL and SOF both would have been very close to being paid off if not completely. Moyes made this backdoor deal to pocket the rest on his own.

He screwed the fans so he could have his cake and eat it too.

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:13 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
Yeah, it's a ****** move. But think about the alternative for Moyes:

- There's no way the other owner's proposal was anywhere close to JB's.
- Bettman was ready to remove Moyes.
- Moyes had lost $200 M in equity, he's trying to get something out his $100 M unsecured credit.

Bankruptcy + $212 M allows him to get most of his loans back. Bettman's offer wouldn't have given him that kind of security.

I don't care who you are, $100 M is a LOT of cash for anybody. He's trying to save his own ass. I think most of us would do the same.
But isn't this his fault anyway for poorly running his business? Maybe he doesn't deserve to get his money back? This has bad ramifications on a lot more people and agencies than just him. I was on Moyes side up unitl he basically went all selfish and went behind everyone's back...now I am just pissed!!!!

Added :This is like the CEO's of bankrupt companies still getting their multi million dollar bonus on the way out...It makes no sense to me!

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:20 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
I'd say the Reinsdorf offer would have been in the neighborhood of 100 - 115 M meaning that the debts to the NHL and SOF both would have been very close to being paid off if not completely. Moyes made this backdoor deal to pocket the rest on his own.

He screwed the fans so he could have his cake and eat it too.
gambo reported the offer was $130m

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:24 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
gambo reported the offer was $130m
So, pretty much, the debts would have been paid off AND Moyes would have gotten to keep a nice chunk of change.

*******.

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:27 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
gambo reported the offer was $130m
That makes sense. If the secured debt is $115M the additional $15M would almost be equal to the $17M Balsillie reportedly was going to provide for ongoing business capital (DIP funds that would move him to the front of the secured debtors line)

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:32 PM
  #87
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If the Yotes move to Ontario it would be good for them but might end up being bad for other teams ...revenues will go way up , which will raise the cap - this can affect some of the poorer markets that are in trouble now ..

Also if it moves it can open the door for other people trying to strong arm the NHL

If it stays ,there is not guarantee that we won't talking about this again in a few years ..Also Jim Balsillie will be back in some form or another , whether with this team or another team

In Canada they are calling Jim Balsille the Robin Hood and Gary Bettman the Sheriff of Nottingham :} Bettman is getting slammed up here

This deal whichever way it goes I believe will be pivitol in the future of the NHL . And will have huge ramifications . The Auction supposedly opens up on Thursday and the winningbid has to beat the offer by more than 5 mil


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Old
05-06-2009, 05:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by gooseman View Post
08-09: 14,875
07-08: 14,820
06-07: 14,988
05-06: 15,596
03-04: 15,467
02-03: 13,229
01-02: 13,165
00-01: 14,224

Up by 55 per game over last year. Down by 113 from the year before, and so on. That does not account for the loss of corporate sponsors (and luxury boxes). Of the last 8 seasons, only 05-06 were they out of the bottom 10 in the league, and 5 they were in the bottom five of the league. No, a new arena did not help attendance.

The other teams in the bottom four this year, and most years, are The Isles, Thrashers, and Preds. I would not be at all opposed to moving all three of them as well. The only one I would hesitate on are the Isles due to history, but there are too many teams in too small of an area when you have places like Seattle, Portland, Winnipeg, that are begging for teams.
alot of those tickets were likely given away ..no ?


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Old
05-06-2009, 05:36 PM
  #89
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never want to see fans lose a team espeically being an Islander fan. I feel you guys, good luck I signed the petition as well. Its a start

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:43 PM
  #90
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Preds fan who signed.

I remember when I was first getting into hockey, and Roenick and Tkachuk were big and you guys made it to the playoffs, that was fun to watch. I hope you guys don't have to move.

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:45 PM
  #91
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oh signed /

here is the Canadian petition for the NHL hockey team to Southern Ont ...32,000 signed so far as of this morning

http://makeitseven.ca



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Old
05-06-2009, 05:46 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
So, pretty much, the debts would have been paid off AND Moyes would have gotten to keep a nice chunk of change.

*******.
I think the Reinsdorff (sp) $130m offer would leave Moyes with zero hence why he went behind everyones back and pulled this stunt. I'm finding out that no body in the organization had any idea this was going to happen. My rep said she found out on the news. A friend of my Sister that also works for the organization found out on the news. and Gambo even said everyone he talked with was blown away with how this came out of no where. Looks like Moyes is a scum bag after all.

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:50 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Llewzaher View Post
alot of those tickets were likely given away ..no ?

Dude what are you talking about, most teams have ticket promos. See this is where SOME Canadians only want to see things in a specific light. beyond the infamous vodka promo 9of which probably only a 100 seats were likely given away), the team never gave away tickets. Baselball, basketball and Hockey all have promos where you purchase something and you get a discount or a 2 for 1 deal on tix. I guarantee you the Blue Jays and the Rapters have ticket promos all the time.

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:53 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
I think the Reinsdorff (sp) $130m offer would leave Moyes with zero hence why he went behind everyones back and pulled this stunt. I'm finding out that no body in the organization had any idea this was going to happen. My rep said she found out on the news. A friend of my Sister that also works for the organization found out on the news. and Gambo even said everyone he talked with was blown away with how this came out of no where. Looks like Moyes is a scum bag after all.
Honestly, I wouldn't have bee opposed to a deal that left him with some money. But, going behind everyone's back like this was a TOTAL cash grab.

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05-06-2009, 05:57 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
Dude what are you talking about, most teams have ticket promos. See this is where SOME Canadians only want to see things in a specific light. beyond the infamous vodka promo 9of which probably only a 100 seats were likely given away), the team never gave away tickets. Baselball, basketball and Hockey all have promos where you purchase something and you get a discount or a 2 for 1 deal on tix. I guarantee you the Blue Jays and the Rapters have ticket promos all the time.
I am not saying they were it was a question . this is some of the things being said by the media ..quoting sports guys in Phoneix ..trust me I do NOT want the yotes to move .I had to go through the Jets moving , do not want to see it happen again



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05-06-2009, 06:29 PM
  #96
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Sorry to hear of Coyotes plight, don't want to see anyone lose their team from a fan s standpoint. losing the Jets was simply devastating. Being at a Winnipeg Jets playoff game was something you had to be at to believe. It was a constant roar from before the game until the end. If they don't have enough support to survive by now though, you have to question whether a move isn't the best thing. There are several teams that probably shouldn't have NHL teams judging by the support (attendance ) they get. I dont think Winnipeg could support a team either at this point. (not enough corporate sponsorship) so I am not trying to be mean or vindictive, just realistic. These offers don't come along every day. If I lost my shirt on something and someone came along to bail me out,I'd jump on it.

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Old
05-06-2009, 06:47 PM
  #97
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I'm originally from Winnipeg too, and it would be nice to see the old Jets returning to a real hockey town. Other than the snowbirds who go to the games I really wonder how many people actually pay for the tickets and how many are given away.

The little Jack off who's running the league is just trying desperately to save face right now. Once the Coyotes move to southern Ontario I wonder how long it will take before other southern teams start looking to Winnipeg, and Quebec city as a possibility.

As far as Winnipeg not ready for a team I'm sure they'd lose a hell of a lot less than 20M a year and I'm sure thats something the NHLPA realizes too.

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Old
05-06-2009, 07:10 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llewzaher View Post
If the Yotes move to Ontario it would be good for them but might end up being bad for other teams ...revenues will go way up , which will raise the cap - this can affect some of the poorer markets that are in trouble now ..

Also if it moves it can open the door for other people trying to strong arm the NHL

If it stays ,there is not guarantee that we won't talking about this again in a few years ..Also Jim Balsillie will be back in some form or another , whether with this team or another team

In Canada they are calling Jim Balsille the Robin Hood and Gary Bettman the Sheriff of Nottingham :} Bettman is getting slammed up here

This deal whichever way it goes I believe will be pivitol in the future of the NHL . And will have huge ramifications . The Auction supposedly opens up on Thursday and the winningbid has to beat the offer by more than 5 mil

If Balsille is Robin Hood, shouldn't he be robbing from the Canadians who are wealthier in terms of hockey and giving to Phoenix???

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:55 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
I think the Reinsdorff (sp) $130m offer would leave Moyes with zero hence why he went behind everyones back and pulled this stunt. I'm finding out that no body in the organization had any idea this was going to happen. My rep said she found out on the news. A friend of my Sister that also works for the organization found out on the news. and Gambo even said everyone he talked with was blown away with how this came out of no where. Looks like Moyes is a scum bag after all.
Moyes is a scum bag. Gretzky and Maloney were told otherwise. Moyes was being a little weasel, and tried to get a nice chunk of change behind the backs of everyone in the organization. Moyes doesn't want what's best for coyotes fans, he want's what's the best for his wallet. I cant say that I blame him though.

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Old
05-06-2009, 10:28 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
I'd say the Reinsdorf offer would have been in the neighborhood of 100 - 115 M meaning that the debts to the NHL and SOF both would have been very close to being paid off if not completely. Moyes made this backdoor deal to pocket the rest on his own.

He screwed the fans so he could have his cake and eat it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootThePuckCoyotes View Post
But isn't this his fault anyway for poorly running his business? Maybe he doesn't deserve to get his money back? This has bad ramifications on a lot more people and agencies than just him. I was on Moyes side up unitl he basically went all selfish and went behind everyone's back...now I am just pissed!!!!

Added :This is like the CEO's of bankrupt companies still getting their multi million dollar bonus on the way out...It makes no sense to me!
Look guys (& gals?), I'm with you. I wish we lived in a world were personal ethics mattered more than money. But come on, what would you expect from any american/capitalist business owner in this situation? Who on earth would reject an opportunity to legally get $100 M back on his losses, just when everything is slipping away?

I consider myself a decent, fairly honest person. But if I was in such a desperate situation, I'd probably do the same ****. If I'm Moyes, this is how I look at the situation:

- Screw Phoenix fans. They've cost me $200 M +. They don't want hockey here. Nobody cares.
- Screw the city of Glendale. They've put me in a corner with their lease, and are not willing to negotiate. Declaring bankruptcy is the only way they'll listen.
- I'm not screwing other owners. Gretzky's been virtually bought out over the past few years. He's not going to hurt much.
- I'm not directly screwing the NHL - after all, JB will be paying off the $35 M debt.
- I'm losing money everywhere, I desperately need cash flow. I have 24 hours to pull a stunt before the NHL removes me.

It's a desperate move. It's a gamble on his part. It's possible the NHL deal would have brought him $10 to $30 M, and now he might lose everything. But I get it.

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