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10 Potential "Jumpers" to the OHL

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Old
05-04-2009, 09:49 PM
  #26
lahc
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Originally Posted by orangeandblack View Post
Id look for Austin Czarnik to sign with Windsor next summer after his NTDP commitment is over. Hes a late 92, so he'll have an extra year before he goes to college, similar to Kane and Fowler. He said hes very interested in Windsor, but will play out his NTDP term.

With Kitchener getting Morin and Maxwell, and now John Moore, it will make the team more enticing for D'Amigo. I think when its all said and done he'll be in Kitchener.

Saad will sign with Saginaw for next season. Hes always said he would end up there next season at the latest. Id be surprised more so if he didnt sign.

I guess Johns would come down to if he could get Windsor to pay the transfer fee. With the way his season ended, youd have to figure a fresh start would benefit him. If I were him, Id definitely be having second thoughts about returning.

I know this is WHL related, but would anyone be surprised if Matt Nieto signed with Tri City Americans after his NTDP commitment ends? Hes another late 92 like A Czarnik, and looks like he could be a high 1st rounder in 2011.
I think medicine hat owns his rights

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05-05-2009, 08:54 AM
  #27
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Balisy should stay away for another year or two. London brings back a deep group of forwards he would probably be relagate to #10 in the lineup next year if Kadri, Taylor and McRae return.

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05-05-2009, 11:50 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JL17 View Post
Balisy should stay away for another year or two. London brings back a deep group of forwards he would probably be relagate to #10 in the lineup next year if Kadri, Taylor and McRae return.

While as a fan of a certain team you dislike a seeing rival strengthening themselves but in the long run it's good for the league.
ie: Fowler, Morin, D'Amigo and Maxwell coming to the OHL this year will help to convince Bailsy and others to seriously consider the OHL.

* not saying it's the prime reason but will definately help.

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Old
05-05-2009, 12:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
While as a fan of a certain team you dislike a seeing rival strengthening themselves but in the long run it's good for the league.
ie: Fowler, Morin, D'Amigo and Maxwell coming to the OHL this year will help to convince Bailsy and others to seriously consider the OHL.

* not saying it's the prime reason but will definately help.
Not only that, but the guys making the jump are finding huge amounts of success. Carlson jumps into the league and becomes a team's number one defenseman, and ending up on the OHL 2nd all star team. Even some of the lesser knowns are finding success like Adam Comrie, Beau Schmitz, Tony Romano. The list goes on and on.

There really haven't been any guys who've made that switch in commitment, only to fall flat on their face in the OHL or CHL.

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05-05-2009, 02:19 PM
  #30
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There really haven't been any guys who've made that switch in commitment, only to fall flat on their face in the OHL or CHL.
Beau Schmitz was a potential first round draft pick and now he's not going to be drafted at all.

Andy Bathgate isn't going to get drafted this year.

Anthony Peluso will play in the ECHL long enough not to be able to take advantage of his education package.

Daniel Erlich won't get drafted.

Josh Bemis has really struggled.

Tyler Murovich never got drafted.

And those are just the kids that committed to a college. If you extend it to American kids/kids that were college prospects, there's an even bigger list: Christian Steingraber, Barry Sanderson, Jordan Mayer, Matt Kang, Zach Tatrn, Jack Combs, Myles McCauley, Barron Smith, Shawn Syzdlowski.

That's quite a few kids that won't make the NHL, but could have got a free college education and put together a nice minor league career. Now they have to choose one or the other.

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05-05-2009, 02:25 PM
  #31
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I forgot that a players career ends at 23/24 years old. How could they ever play pro hockey after getting a great education while playing hockey in the CIAU. It's never happened before. Poor, poor kids.

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05-05-2009, 02:29 PM
  #32
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Didn't Fowler and Morin already sign?

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05-05-2009, 02:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by WesternCollegeHockey View Post
Andy Bathgate isn't going to get drafted this year.
I think he's a little old, don't you?

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Old
05-05-2009, 02:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by WesternCollegeHockey View Post
Beau Schmitz was a potential first round draft pick and now he's not going to be drafted at all.

Andy Bathgate isn't going to get drafted this year.

Anthony Peluso will play in the ECHL long enough not to be able to take advantage of his education package.

Daniel Erlich won't get drafted.

Josh Bemis has really struggled.

Tyler Murovich never got drafted.

And those are just the kids that committed to a college. If you extend it to American kids/kids that were college prospects, there's an even bigger list: Christian Steingraber, Barry Sanderson, Jordan Mayer, Matt Kang, Zach Tatrn, Jack Combs, Myles McCauley, Barron Smith, Shawn Syzdlowski.

That's quite a few kids that won't make the NHL, but could have got a free college education and put together a nice minor league career. Now they have to choose one or the other.
Does Joe Frazer belong on the list?

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Old
05-05-2009, 02:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by WesternCollegeHockey View Post
Beau Schmitz was a potential first round draft pick and now he's not going to be drafted at all.

Andy Bathgate isn't going to get drafted this year.

Anthony Peluso will play in the ECHL long enough not to be able to take advantage of his education package.

Daniel Erlich won't get drafted.

Josh Bemis has really struggled.

Tyler Murovich never got drafted.

And those are just the kids that committed to a college. If you extend it to American kids/kids that were college prospects, there's an even bigger list: Christian Steingraber, Barry Sanderson, Jordan Mayer, Matt Kang, Zach Tatrn, Jack Combs, Myles McCauley, Barron Smith, Shawn Syzdlowski.

That's quite a few kids that won't make the NHL, but could have got a free college education and put together a nice minor league career. Now they have to choose one or the other.
Not quite true....going by your nic you obviously do have a biased opinion, just like most of us. The players can take advantage of their education package after their CHL career is over. There are some players in town here (Kitchener) who attended university while playing CHL hockey. ie: Andre Benoit, JM Rysk and Spenser Anderson.


* just because players have education packages or a scholarship at a NCAA doesn't mean they end up with an education after their "playing days" are over either.
Most of what a player achieves or doesn't acheive is up to the player and not the route they take.

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05-05-2009, 02:48 PM
  #36
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My opinion is that there are advantages and disadvantages for both routes. However, my feeling is that nearly all Major Junior fans don't feel there is any advantage whatsoever for playing NCAA hockey. I know there must be reasonable CHL fans out there, who are you?

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05-05-2009, 02:56 PM
  #37
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The players can take advantage of their education package after their CHL career is over.
Like I said, they can do that if they want to give up their hockey career.Yes, they can play CIS, but aside from one or two rare exceptions, it's not really a "career" at that point. It's basically beer league. You're playing for fun.

There's always kids that slip through the cracks educationally in the NCAA, but NCAA schools have a very vested interest in making sure their kids graduate. There's pretty stiff penalties if too many don't. On the other hand, it's to the CHL's benefit to have as many kids as possible bypass their education packages. That's why they set the time limit after they age out of the CHL so ridiculously low. They know the majority of kids will stick around the pros long enough that they can't collect on it.

And yes, kids can take a few classes during the CHL season, but look at the schedule they play and the travel they have to do. It's near impossible to take anything close to a full course load.

Joey Frazer left for the WHL, but he couldn't get into UNO academically.

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05-05-2009, 03:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by WesternCollegeHockey View Post
Joey Frazer left for the WHL, but he couldn't get into UNO academically.
Thanks. The two that immediately come to mind for me are Jonathan Lehun and Brent Hill. I don't think either flunked out of SCSU, but both are definately now OUT of high level hockey, not sure if they ever graduated from anywhere.

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05-05-2009, 03:08 PM
  #39
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I have a question for WesternCollegeHockey. I really don't know the answer to this but you seem pretty informed so here it goes. How many NHL'ers who went to college actually played the full 4 years? I know JVR is leaving without completing his package.

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05-05-2009, 03:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by WesternCollegeHockey View Post
Beau Schmitz was a potential first round draft pick and now he's not going to be drafted at all.

Andy Bathgate isn't going to get drafted this year.

Anthony Peluso will play in the ECHL long enough not to be able to take advantage of his education package.

Daniel Erlich won't get drafted.

Josh Bemis has really struggled.

Tyler Murovich never got drafted.

And those are just the kids that committed to a college. If you extend it to American kids/kids that were college prospects, there's an even bigger list: Christian Steingraber, Barry Sanderson, Jordan Mayer, Matt Kang, Zach Tatrn, Jack Combs, Myles McCauley, Barron Smith, Shawn Syzdlowski.

That's quite a few kids that won't make the NHL, but could have got a free college education and put together a nice minor league career. Now they have to choose one or the other.
Someone sounds a tad bitter. It's nice to see that you've cracked out your crystal ball and determined their future.

Beau Schmitz was considered a first round pick right up until the point that he stopped growing. A 5'10 defenseman (outside of someone like Ryan Ellis) just isn't going to draw the draft interest from clubs. Schmitz actually had a great second half of the season, got himself on the final CSB list and I think has a very good shot of being selected in the later rounds of the draft. If he would have been playing in the USHL or playing limited minutes at a D1 school, do you really think his current draft outlook would be different?

Bathgate got injured and missed a good chunk of time. He was really starting to play well before his injury. Tough luck, but could have happened in any league. He may still get drafted too based one what was seen of him earlier in the year.

Great to see that you've determined Anthony Peluso's future as ECHL'er so early. Considering he improved greatly this year and is playing some awesome hockey in the playoffs for Brampton. It also turned into a contract with St. Louis where he definitely has a chance to one day play on their checking line.

Erlich? Come on. Talented player, but he isn't getting drafted because he's 5'6, not because he was stuck in a numbers game in London. 5'6 is pushing it too. He's easily one of the smallest players I've ever seen play in the OHL.

For every person out there that is an unreasonable CHL fan with bias towards the NCAA, is a person like yourself with a clear bias against the CHL.

Truthfully, there is a benefit to both routes, as Exiled One said. For some of the guys you mentioned above, they could have been better off going to college because they likely don't have much of a professional future in hockey. Those "bubble" type players should be going the NCAA route to get a guaranteed education. But for the players who are good enough, it really doesn't matter where they go, they'll find success eventually.

For every kid like Bathgate who spurned the NCAA for a chance to play for a deep Belleville team, is another kid who decided to go the NCAA route and play for a deep D1 school like BU, where it could take him just as long to earn a prominent role in the line up. And by then it could be too late.

Oh and for the record Christian Steingraber is taking advantage of his free education in Canada, at the University of Windsor starting next season. So the CHL isn't "swindling" every kid out their education package.

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05-05-2009, 03:18 PM
  #41
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I have a question for WesternCollegeHockey. I really don't know the answer to this but you seem pretty informed so here it goes. How many NHL'ers who went to college actually played the full 4 years? I know JVR is leaving without completing his package.
I'll let WCH answer the specifics, but as a percentage I'm guessing it's pretty low. Obviously, for some players who are ready for the NHL, college becomes less of a priority. It's the early departures that are hardly ready for the AHL that bother us college hockey fans the most.

Personally, I'm proud of all the former SCSU players in the NHL, regardless of whether they played four years or not.

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05-05-2009, 03:25 PM
  #42
Ward Cornell
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Like I said, they can do that if they want to give up their hockey career.Yes, they can play CIS, but aside from one or two rare exceptions, it's not really a "career" at that point. It's basically beer league. You're playing for fun.

There's always kids that slip through the cracks educationally in the NCAA, but NCAA schools have a very vested interest in making sure their kids graduate. There's pretty stiff penalties if too many don't. On the other hand, it's to the CHL's benefit to have as many kids as possible bypass their education packages. That's why they set the time limit after they age out of the CHL so ridiculously low. They know the majority of kids will stick around the pros long enough that they can't collect on it.

And yes, kids can take a few classes during the CHL season, but look at the schedule they play and the travel they have to do. It's near impossible to take anything close to a full course load.

Joey Frazer left for the WHL, but he couldn't get into UNO academically.
Getting an education or not getting an education is probably the percentage for non-players vs players. In either case, if the player wishes to receive an education he can acheive it in wherever he chooses to play. In both cases it takes commitment. I understand how you wish for the NCAA to be the preferred route but that may not be for everyone. Just like the CHL isn't for everyone.
But at the end, it's what the players want. The players now-a-days and well informed and are going into their chosen path with eyes wide open.

Would you not say the main problem is some of the archaic rules by classify CHL players as professionals? $50.00 a week is basically just allowance money for the players and the NCAA players receive that in goods but not in money.
Imagine the quality of play in either league if all the players who want to play NCAA could apprentice for 2 or 3 years in the CHL before playing NCAA.
It would be win win for both.

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Old
05-05-2009, 03:31 PM
  #43
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Truthfully, there is a benefit to both routes, as Exiled One said. For some of the guys you mentioned above, they could have been better off going to college because they likely don't have much of a professional future in hockey. Those "bubble" type players should be going the NCAA route to get a guaranteed education. But for the players who are good enough, it really doesn't matter where they go, they'll find success eventually.

For every kid like Bathgate who spurned the NCAA for a chance to play for a deep Belleville team, is another kid who decided to go the NCAA route and play for a deep D1 school like BU, where it could take him just as long to earn a prominent role in the line up. And by then it could be too late.

Oh and for the record Christian Steingraber is taking advantage of his free education in Canada, at the University of Windsor starting next season. So the CHL isn't "swindling" every kid out their education package.
See, I knew there were reasonable CHL fans!! If you're being completely honest though, some of these "bubble" players are good depth players for CHL teams and you want them in your league, even though they don't get the gauranteed education packages up front and don't play long enough to earn a full four years of education. Also, how many kids actually see themselves as "bubble" players? They all think they're going to be NHL stars!! That, IMHO, is the crux of the debate. Do you play hockey while earning some scholarship money, or do you go to college while also playing hockey? I know which one I'd want my kid to do, but that's not right for everybody. Still though, if my kid was gauranteed NHL playing time at age 20, I'm probably okay with him dropping out of school (unless he's at Harvard or Yale). If you're smart enough to get into Harvard or Yale... finish school... period.

Would Gilroy be in the position he is now if he played in the CHL? My guess is that he probably made the right decision.


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05-05-2009, 03:39 PM
  #44
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Oh and for the record Christian Steingraber is taking advantage of his free education in Canada, at the University of Windsor starting next season. So the CHL isn't "swindling" every kid out their education package.
So his hockey career is over by the age of 20. I guess that's that "faster route" I'm always hearing about.

Like I said, he could have got a college education and a nice minor league hockey career. Instead he had to choose one or the other. He's the textbook case of a kid who got some bad advice and decided to take his shot at age 18 when he would have been much better off taking his shot at age 22.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaluty View Post
I have a question for WesternCollegeHockey. I really don't know the answer to this but you seem pretty informed so here it goes. How many NHL'ers who went to college actually played the full 4 years? I know JVR is leaving without completing his package.
It's a different issue with kids that sign NHL contracts. Yes, JVR left two years of his scholarship on the table, but he also got two years of college education. A CHL player in his position that signed an NHL contract gets nothing, save whatever classes he squeezed in between bus trips.

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05-05-2009, 03:49 PM
  #45
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So his hockey career is over by the age of 20. I guess that's that "faster route" I'm always hearing about.

Like I said, he could have got a college education and a nice minor league hockey career. Instead he had to choose one or the other. He's the textbook case of a kid who got some bad advice and decided to take his shot at age 18 when he would have been much better off taking his shot at age 22.



It's a different issue with kids that sign NHL contracts. Yes, JVR left two years of his scholarship on the table, but he also got two years of college education. A CHL player in his position that signed an NHL contract gets nothing, save whatever classes he squeezed in between bus trips.
I guess one thing you don't learn in the NCAA is to be open-minded.
If one is closed minded and wants to have bring forth selected samples cases can be made for both sides.


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05-05-2009, 04:03 PM
  #46
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So his hockey career is over by the age of 20. I guess that's that "faster route" I'm always hearing about.

Like I said, he could have got a college education and a nice minor league hockey career. Instead he had to choose one or the other. He's the textbook case of a kid who got some bad advice and decided to take his shot at age 18 when he would have been much better off taking his shot at age 22.



It's a different issue with kids that sign NHL contracts. Yes, JVR left two years of his scholarship on the table, but he also got two years of college education. A CHL player in his position that signed an NHL contract gets nothing, save whatever classes he squeezed in between bus trips.

Truth of the matter is that there are quite a few CIS players that do sign pro contracts after their playing days are over....it is not the beer league that you believe it to be. In fact one player, Kevin Henderson, has just signed an entry level deal with San Jose.

If Steingraber needs further development, then he can easily get it in the CIS as he could in the NCAA playing for schools like Bowling Green, Lake State, RPI, Michigan Tech...well you get the point.

An OHL player can also play in the ECHL for over a year and still keep his scholarship money. I think that is more than ample time for the player to decide if the minor pros are for him or if he would be better off getting a free education.....its a pity that the NCAA is not as flexible wouldn't you say???

Little wonder why more and more top Americans are choosing the CHL route.

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05-05-2009, 04:14 PM
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So his hockey career is over by the age of 20. I guess that's that "faster route" I'm always hearing about.

Like I said, he could have got a college education and a nice minor league hockey career. Instead he had to choose one or the other. He's the textbook case of a kid who got some bad advice and decided to take his shot at age 18 when he would have been much better off taking his shot at age 22.

.
If you are going to run a blog and be 'the spokesman' for College hockey at least get your facts straight. The majority of CIS players can go on to pursue a pro hockey career after they graduate if they so choose. Whether it be in NA or Europe.

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05-05-2009, 04:26 PM
  #48
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I presume WesternCollegeHockey is Chris Heisenberg? Not that there's anything wrong with that but his blog tends to be extremely biased and favors college hockey.

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05-05-2009, 04:49 PM
  #49
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I presume WesternCollegeHockey is Chris Heisenberg? Not that there's anything wrong with that but his blog tends to be extremely biased and favors college hockey.
Nope.

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05-05-2009, 05:23 PM
  #50
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Nate Gerbe has played in the NHL and was drafted. That means Erlich has a chance to be drafted.

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