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Phoenix hangs on...

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Old
03-19-2004, 08:16 AM
  #1
Fletch
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Phoenix hangs on...

and gets the tie against Detroit. Big point for the Rangers as they unfortunately sent the game into OT last night. PHX is the competition for that 5th pick. They play Chicago this weekend, and are only one behind the Rangers. The Rangers have an opportunity to go one game ahead, with a game in hand (think in reverse everybody), in the race for that coveted #5 overall pick.

It would be nice to see a run by both Phoenix and the Rangers, and Florida, and Carolina, so there would be no rooting for the Rangers to lose games (which I cannot do).

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03-19-2004, 11:23 AM
  #2
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Question...

If the Rangers and Coyotes tie for fifth, do they settle the tie with a coin flip or do they use the same criteria which is used for the playoffs (Wins, head to head, point differential)?

I think it is a coin flip and I hope it is because the Rangers have five more wins and only one more point than Phoenix.

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03-19-2004, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
If the Rangers and Coyotes tie for fifth, do they settle the tie with a coin flip or do they use the same criteria which is used for the playoffs (Wins, head to head, point differential)?

I think it is a coin flip and I hope it is because the Rangers have five more wins and only one more point than Phoenix.
The tie breaker is wins, I am pretty certain of that

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Old
03-19-2004, 12:38 PM
  #4
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how ironic would it be if the difference between getting a better prospect is the "star" first line RW we're stuck with and whom some people insist we should be happy to have.

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03-19-2004, 03:42 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Edge
how ironic would it be if the difference between getting a better prospect is the "star" first line RW we're stuck with and whom some people insist we should be happy to have.
Don't know why you are so down on Jagr ... has done absolutely nothing but play hard, through injury, and score ... seems like someone we'd want on the team.

As for the draft position ... should we be intentionally losing? Should they just shoot the puck into their own net (Poti and Lundmark excluded as they do it anyway)???

They are going to play and try to win, and if that means the 6th spot then so be it. Do I want them to get the first overall pick? Yes.

Do I want them to do it by intentionally tanking? No.

If you don't like the Jagr trade, thats your perogative, but I'm not sure why you'd think he's done a bad job here.

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03-19-2004, 04:07 PM
  #6
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Don't know why you are so down on Jagr ... has done absolutely nothing but play hard, through injury, and score ... seems like someone we'd want on the team.

You're right because every non-playoff team that is trying to build a nucleus of young players needs a 32 year old, 6 million dollar a year RW to possibly take up 11 million under a salary cap and score just enough points to keep us where we've been for 7 years. Good enough to not get a top young franchise player and not good enough to make the playoffs. The strategy has worked so well thus far.......

Quote:
As for the draft position ... should we be intentionally losing? Should they just shoot the puck into their own net (Poti and Lundmark excluded as they do it anyway)???
Intentionally lose? No, but we should just finally go for the rebuilding that this team needs. Winning meaningless games after the fact while giving Jagr 25 minutes a nigh is a pointless move. What good is gonna come out of it? We win an extra game or two? That's not going to help the long run.

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They are going to play and try to win, and if that means the 6th spot then so be it. Do I want them to get the first overall pick? Yes.
And round and round we go, we can keep going through this till the world gets hit by a coment but it's not getting this team anywhere. It's winning when there is nothing left to win. Think of any sport like a war strategy. Sometimes you take the hits, retreat slowly and you're able to rebound stronger than ever. You don't keep blasting away, using up ammo you could use in the long run because you still lose the battle only now you have NO chance at reloading.

Quote:
Do I want them to do it by intentionally tanking? No.
I dunno where you're getting intenionally from but what good does Jagr getting 20 minutes do anyone at this point, including Jagr?

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If you don't like the Jagr trade, thats your perogative, but I'm not sure why you'd think he's done a bad job here.
And I assume you like the deal? Even though the Rangers themselves tried unloading him. Even though it was desperation.

So we get Jagr? What's the point, by the time this team is rebuilt he is 35 years old....at least. Do you realize that in this deal, the team we helped the most if Washington? We helped them get a better pick and we freed them of one of the most immovable contracts in hockey. And you know why it's immovable? Because the Rangers already tried moving him. They are stuck with him. They are stuck with his salary and they are gonan be stuck with him when he starts to sulk.

But hey at least this piece of crap team has a shiney new paint job on it right?

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Old
03-19-2004, 04:07 PM
  #7
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I agree, I think Jagr has done very well. Considering the circumstances (his injury, the rebuilding, etc) I think he has not only acted like a complete professional on the ice, but off the ice as well. I am happy to have him.

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03-19-2004, 04:19 PM
  #8
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Again it comes down to, do you want a guy to come in and get your points that you dont need {you're missing the playoffs anyway} or do you wanna suffer through the losing and get a guy to build your team around.

In 5 years Jagr will be 37 and a potential franchise player will be 23 and the meaningless games the Rangers won while missing the playoffs are going to be a non-point.

You wanna build a team, you gotta suffer. Whether Jagr is playing hard or not is irrelevant, if this wants to rebuild this isn't helping.

Washington gave Jagr for Carter but if they get an elite prospect with higher pick as a result and dont have jagr's salary count against them if there is a cap then guess what boys and girls, the rangers got creamed on the deal.

and maybe it's time people start realizing that the same philosophy is what has put both the knicks and the rangers in their current situations. history speaks for itself.

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03-19-2004, 04:20 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Intentionally lose? No, but we should just finally go for the rebuilding that this team needs. Winning meaningless games after the fact while giving Jagr 25 minutes a nigh is a pointless move. What good is gonna come out of it? We win an extra game or two? That's not going to help the long run.


And round and round we go, we can keep going through this till the world gets hit by a coment but it's not getting this team anywhere. It's winning when there is nothing left to win. Think of any sport like a war strategy. Sometimes you take the hits, retreat slowly and you're able to rebound stronger than ever. You don't keep blasting away, using up ammo you could use in the long run because you still lose the battle only now you have NO chance at reloading.
Excellent points.

Does anyone really care if they win another game out of the 8 there are left? Well, obviously we care, but it means nothing now. I would rather have a chance to get the #1 pick than win a few more games of this sad season.

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Old
03-19-2004, 04:58 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Again it comes down to, do you want a guy to come in and get your points that you dont need {you're missing the playoffs anyway} or do you wanna suffer through the losing and get a guy to build your team around.

In 5 years Jagr will be 37 and a potential franchise player will be 23 and the meaningless games the Rangers won while missing the playoffs are going to be a non-point.

You wanna build a team, you gotta suffer. Whether Jagr is playing hard or not is irrelevant, if this wants to rebuild this isn't helping.

Washington gave Jagr for Carter but if they get an elite prospect with higher pick as a result and dont have jagr's salary count against them if there is a cap then guess what boys and girls, the rangers got creamed on the deal.

and maybe it's time people start realizing that the same philosophy is what has put both the knicks and the rangers in their current situations. history speaks for itself.
Of course we'd like to see them get a shot at the #1 pick, but I dont see why you are so down on the Jagr deal. At the time of the deal we were trying to make a push (albeit too late) for the playoffs. As far as salary cap issues, we pay about 5mil a year for one of the best players in the league, that is not unreasonable. 3 MIL a year LESS than bobby holik!! please... JAGR is TEN TIMES the player Holik is. Then you subtract the 1.25mil/yr we were paying carter and we are really only paying Jagr 3.75/yr... c'mon, thats not outrageous. He has PLENTY of good years ahead and will be a great player to build around. as far as the caps getting an elite prospect with a higher pick as a result of the trade... we have as good a chance at getting that elite prospect as they do. The trade had nothing to do with that.

i DO agree that he shouldnt be playing 20mins a night though, that is retarded.

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Old
03-19-2004, 05:00 PM
  #11
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I don't. I want them to lose. Sometimes mediocrity is worse than abject failure. What good comes being mediocre, when complete failure brings the prospect of a better future?

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Old
03-19-2004, 05:02 PM
  #12
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jagr is not the problem here.. all of a sudden one player makes the team???

if hes holding us up then i suppose phoenix is having the same trouble with doan and nagy

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03-19-2004, 05:32 PM
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yeah i mean the only difference of course being that Doan and Nagy are actually 27 and under and will still be in their prime when Phoenix rebuilds {which they've already been doing} where as Jagr is 32 and making probably more than both of them combined.

no difference at all there......

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Old
03-19-2004, 05:38 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
jagr is not the problem here.. all of a sudden one player makes the team???

if hes holding us up then i suppose phoenix is having the same trouble with doan and nagy
Jagr could count $11 million against the cap, and that will cripple this franchise. It is possible that between Jagr, Kaspar, Dunham, and Holik that $27 million of a 35-40 million dollar cap is locked. That is not a pleasant situation - let a lone one where the player does have some off ice issues and tends to sulk when teams are rebuilding or things aren't going his way....

I've never been a huge Jagr fan - more for his off ice concerns - but have been impressed that he's given an effort since the trade. He had better keep that up as this team and it's rebuilding effort progresses.

That said, while hindsight is 20/20.... Let's imagine that the Rangers traded Carter for Aulin in early Feb and didn't trade for Jagr. (This was a possibility, another was the Rangers trading Carter for Umberger). IF they get Aulin (who would arguably be their top prospect at C right now -if not top behind Umberger where I'd rate him), odds are they are probably 3-5 points worse then where they are right now. Odds are the Caps would be 3-5 points better. That said, the Rangers would have the 3rd pick if not the 2nd at this point. They would have another nice prospect (and possible an additional pick). They would have a real shot at the Ovechkin pick WITHOUT having to make a trade, and even better - would be in a pretty strong postion with the salary cap.

Like I said, Hindsight is 20/20, but these thoughts should have been considered - especially when the best case in getting Jagr would have been a 2nd place finish and perhaps a shot a the 2nd round of the playoffs (still a longshot).

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03-19-2004, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Park #2

Like I said, Hindsight is 20/20, but these thoughts should have been considered - especially when the best case in getting Jagr would have been a 2nd place finish and perhaps a shot a the 2nd round of the playoffs (still a longshot).
I meant a 7th place finish and a shot at the 2nd round of the playoffs. Sorry.

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03-19-2004, 05:44 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22
Of course we'd like to see them get a shot at the #1 pick, but I dont see why you are so down on the Jagr deal. At the time of the deal we were trying to make a push (albeit too late) for the playoffs. As far as salary cap issues, we pay about 5mil a year for one of the best players in the league, that is not unreasonable. 3 MIL a year LESS than bobby holik!! please... JAGR is TEN TIMES the player Holik is. Then you subtract the 1.25mil/yr we were paying carter and we are really only paying Jagr 3.75/yr... c'mon, thats not outrageous. He has PLENTY of good years ahead and will be a great player to build around. as far as the caps getting an elite prospect with a higher pick as a result of the trade... we have as good a chance at getting that elite prospect as they do. The trade had nothing to do with that.

i DO agree that he shouldnt be playing 20mins a night though, that is retarded.
You forget though that even though WE are only paying Jagr 3.75, the WHOLE salary is going to work against us if a cap is implemented and THAT is a huge problem. That is also why there were no takers for him at the dealine. It's not the actual out of pocket money you need to worry about, it's the total cost against a cap.

Plenty of good years ahead of him? The guy has been battling groin problems for several years now and going further into this 30's is not going to help the situation. If anything he has a lot of hockey miles under the hood which are going to start catching up to him. This rebuilding process is gonna take anywhere between 3 to 5 years in which time Jagr is going to even older. But wait it gets better.

Jagr can dazzle us with his moves and score a point per game and you know what's going to happen? THE SAME THING THAT HAS HAPPENED FOR 7 YEARS, WE'RE GONNA BE STUCK IN MEDIOCRITY BECAUSE WE REFUSE TO SUCK IT UP, TAKE OUR LICKS AND BUILD FROM THERE.

Have we learned nothing from the past 7 years?

Who cares if he is one of the best players in the game, we are the furthest team from a stanley cup right now. So again, who cares if we win 27 games. It's the same nonplayoff result as winning 10 games. At least with 10 wins you get a shot at a franchise player.

it's all smoke and mirrors folks, and obviously some people still believe it.

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03-20-2004, 05:08 PM
  #17
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My point was not that I liked the Jagr trade ... as I didn't, and I didn't think at the time that it made sense ... it was like trying to put a bandaid on a bullet wound.

My point was once he is here, it is his professional responsibility to play his best and try and win. He shouldn't tank it.

I think it was a mistake for Sather to trade for him, but my general opinion has been that Sather has sucked anyway, so him making multiple mistakes again, is not a surpise.

As for a point or two here or there, yes it could be the difference between getting the 1st or 2nd pick, or the 5th or 6th, but the players on the ice can't worry about that, its they're job to play their best and try and win.

Would you be upset if we had beaten the flyer's today and Tjutin, Balej and Lundmark scored?? I think not, because then you'd say it was worth it because the young players had shown something or done something. What does it show to score in a meaningless game? I don't know ... maybe something, maybe nothing ...

My only point was, now that he is here (which there is apparently nothing we can do about), he should play his hardest, and set an example for the younger players about how an NHL player should play. Thats all ...

If all we want is to tank, why not just skip the games and forfeit, then we are guaranteed of not getting the points and those below us are (assuming we are playing them). Don't think that suggestion will get a positive response ... but there is no difference between not playing and intentionally tanking it.

I wish we were horrible all year so that we would get the first (assuming no one won the lottery) but we weren't, and we aren't going to win it. Its unfortunate, but we can't do anything about it. Take the pick, try and make some good trades and pick some good players and rebuild the team. Can't worry about spilt milk.

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03-20-2004, 05:14 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddheyman

If all we want is to tank, why not just skip the games and forfeit, then we are guaranteed of not getting the points and those below us are (assuming we are playing them). Don't think that suggestion will get a positive response ... but there is no difference between not playing and intentionally tanking it.

I wish we were horrible all year so that we would get the first (assuming no one won the lottery) but we weren't, and we aren't going to win it. Its unfortunate, but we can't do anything about it. Take the pick, try and make some good trades and pick some good players and rebuild the team. Can't worry about spilt milk.
Ask the Penguins and their fans if they were happy they tanked the season in 84, while the Devils went on a late season winning streak. Because they tanked the season, they ended with Lemieux, and because the Devs didn't, wound up with Kirk Muller. Tanking is one reason why the Lottery was established in hockey.

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03-20-2004, 05:17 PM
  #19
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[QUOTE=Edge]You forget though that even though WE are only paying Jagr 3.75, the WHOLE salary is going to work against us if a cap is implemented and THAT is a huge problem. That is also why there were no takers for him at the dealine. It's not the actual out of pocket money you need to worry about, it's the total cost against a cap.QUOTE]

What CAP??? Where do you get this inside information that makes you so sure that there is:

1) Going to be a cap
2) Going to be a hard cap
3) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering
4) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering that is instituted immediately
5) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering that is instituted immediately and has a provision which states that it is the total salary and not what you pay the player that counts toward the cap

Because if you can KNOW all that then I guess there is going to be a season next year because all the drama relating to the labor crisis is fictional as everything has been resolved already ...

Also, not to use Brooks as a guide for anything, (although I have surpisingly been agreeing with some of his recent articles) he discussed the possibility of the Rangers "buying-out" the contracts of Holik/Jagr?Kaspiritis for their current 2/3 value and then resigning them at the remainder of their contracts to circumvent the cap (i.e 1/3 of their current salary). Don't know if this would work, as I DON'T KNOW what the CBA will look like, but maybe it's a possibility ..

BTW ... as an aside, I don't mean to be snippy, and I appreciate most of your insights and opinions, as well as your analysis. Makes the days go by easier rooting for this team ...

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03-20-2004, 05:22 PM
  #20
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[QUOTE=ddheyman]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
You forget though that even though WE are only paying Jagr 3.75, the WHOLE salary is going to work against us if a cap is implemented and THAT is a huge problem. That is also why there were no takers for him at the dealine. It's not the actual out of pocket money you need to worry about, it's the total cost against a cap.QUOTE]

What CAP??? Where do you get this inside information that makes you so sure that there is:

1) Going to be a cap
2) Going to be a hard cap
3) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering
4) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering that is instituted immediately
5) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering that is instituted immediately and has a provision which states that it is the total salary and not what you pay the player that counts toward the cap

Because if you can KNOW all that then I guess there is going to be a season next year because all the drama relating to the labor crisis is fictional as everything has been resolved already ...

Also, not to use Brooks as a guide for anything, (although I have surpisingly been agreeing with some of his recent articles) he discussed the possibility of the Rangers "buying-out" the contracts of Holik/Jagr?Kaspiritis for their current 2/3 value and then resigning them at the remainder of their contracts to circumvent the cap (i.e 1/3 of their current salary). Don't know if this would work, as I DON'T KNOW what the CBA will look like, but maybe it's a possibility ..

BTW ... as an aside, I don't mean to be snippy, and I appreciate most of your insights and opinions, as well as your analysis. Makes the days go by easier rooting for this team ...
Well, there is going to be a cap - it's what form it comes in that is the question. Even with grandfathering, NYR are on the hook with JAGS for years to come.....

It's no coincidence that the Rangers were offering Jagr around the league at the deadline. They got him to try and be the quickfix guy to finally get the NYR and perhaps more importantly - SATHER back into the playoffs.

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03-20-2004, 05:25 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park #2
Ask the Penguins and their fans if they were happy they tanked the season in 84, while the Devils went on a late season winning streak. Because they tanked the season, they ended with Lemieux, and because the Devs didn't, wound up with Kirk Muller. Tanking is one reason why the Lottery was established in hockey.
When you say the team tanked are you implying they intentionally lost??? I don't know. IF they did, then the league should have made them forfeit their pick.

All I know, is that as a fan, I expect the team to play hard when I show up at $150 a seat. I don't say they have to win, because you can't control that, but they have to play hard. And if any team intentionally loses, they should no longer be in the league. Period.

Now if you want to call up half of the AHL to play and sit your veterans, that is your right, but then I expect that the AHL players will try their best, and who knows, they may win a few (look at PItts recent winning streak - if they keep it up, they may no longer be the first pick afterall).

As for the fans being happy, what if PITT tanked it and Lemiuex was a bust??? Then what? Tank it again? For the next Lemiuex? A draft pick is only a prospect, and the 5th pick in the draft can be much better than the 1st,(Lindros - Forsberg) only time will tell.

All I've been trying to say (and obviously not very well) is that players are professional athletes, getting paid to play their best, and if we ask or expect them to tank it, then I think you're messing with the integrity of the sport and then the NHL will become professional wrestling ... entertainment, not sports.

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03-20-2004, 05:29 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddheyman
When you say the team tanked are you implying they intentionally lost??? I don't know. IF they did, then the league should have made them forfeit their pick.

All I know, is that as a fan, I expect the team to play hard when I show up at $150 a seat. I don't say they have to win, because you can't control that, but they have to play hard. And if any team intentionally loses, they should no longer be in the league. Period.

Now if you want to call up half of the AHL to play and sit your veterans, that is your right, but then I expect that the AHL players will try their best, and who knows, they may win a few (look at PItts recent winning streak - if they keep it up, they may no longer be the first pick afterall).

As for the fans being happy, what if PITT tanked it and Lemiuex was a bust??? Then what? Tank it again? For the next Lemiuex? A draft pick is only a prospect, and the 5th pick in the draft can be much better than the 1st,(Lindros - Forsberg) only time will tell.

All I've been trying to say (and obviously not very well) is that players are professional athletes, getting paid to play their best, and if we ask or expect them to tank it, then I think you're messing with the integrity of the sport and then the NHL will become professional wrestling ... entertainment, not sports.
I understand - but sometimes in the end - losing at this time helps. And PIT did tank, and that was known throughout the league. In that draft, like in this one, the 1st pick is a player who is regarded as a star player. (Lemieux more of a Franchise player then Ovechkin - but it's a can't miss player this year).

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03-20-2004, 06:36 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddheyman
My point was not that I liked the Jagr trade ... as I didn't, and I didn't think at the time that it made sense ... it was like trying to put a bandaid on a bullet wound.

My point was once he is here, it is his professional responsibility to play his best and try and win. He shouldn't tank it.

I think it was a mistake for Sather to trade for him, but my general opinion has been that Sather has sucked anyway, so him making multiple mistakes again, is not a surpise.

As for a point or two here or there, yes it could be the difference between getting the 1st or 2nd pick, or the 5th or 6th, but the players on the ice can't worry about that, its they're job to play their best and try and win.

Would you be upset if we had beaten the flyer's today and Tjutin, Balej and Lundmark scored?? I think not, because then you'd say it was worth it because the young players had shown something or done something. What does it show to score in a meaningless game? I don't know ... maybe something, maybe nothing ...

My only point was, now that he is here (which there is apparently nothing we can do about), he should play his hardest, and set an example for the younger players about how an NHL player should play. Thats all ...

If all we want is to tank, why not just skip the games and forfeit, then we are guaranteed of not getting the points and those below us are (assuming we are playing them). Don't think that suggestion will get a positive response ... but there is no difference between not playing and intentionally tanking it.

I wish we were horrible all year so that we would get the first (assuming no one won the lottery) but we weren't, and we aren't going to win it. Its unfortunate, but we can't do anything about it. Take the pick, try and make some good trades and pick some good players and rebuild the team. Can't worry about spilt milk.
I don't blame Jagr per say for his performance, so much as I blame this team for bringing him here in the first place. It's in the past and you can't change it, but this team can't keep clinging to that idea. We cant keep going "oh well we already did it so oh well". We need to develop a team attitude that things before it acts. For me that is the biggest concern.

And you're right, I wouldn't mind if it were younger players scoring. You can't hold younger players back just to get more younger players or else you're running in circles. But at 32, Jagr isn't gonna develop anymore. There is no reason to give him 25 minutes a night. Even if this team DOESNT win games I don't want him getting that much time because win, lose or draw we need to be bringing the young talent along or at least seeing what they bring to the table.

Jage in general is a bad fit for this team. It's bad fit when going for a top pick, it's a bad fit when going for the development of the younger players you already have and its a bad fit for the salary structure that is going to come. I'll address that in my next response your other post.

Either way it's a self hurting situation.

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03-20-2004, 06:42 PM
  #24
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[QUOTE=ddheyman]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
You forget though that even though WE are only paying Jagr 3.75, the WHOLE salary is going to work against us if a cap is implemented and THAT is a huge problem. That is also why there were no takers for him at the dealine. It's not the actual out of pocket money you need to worry about, it's the total cost against a cap.QUOTE]

What CAP??? Where do you get this inside information that makes you so sure that there is:

1) Going to be a cap
2) Going to be a hard cap
3) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering
4) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering that is instituted immediately
5) Going to be a hard cap with no grandfathering that is instituted immediately and has a provision which states that it is the total salary and not what you pay the player that counts toward the cap

Because if you can KNOW all that then I guess there is going to be a season next year because all the drama relating to the labor crisis is fictional as everything has been resolved already ...

Also, not to use Brooks as a guide for anything, (although I have surpisingly been agreeing with some of his recent articles) he discussed the possibility of the Rangers "buying-out" the contracts of Holik/Jagr?Kaspiritis for their current 2/3 value and then resigning them at the remainder of their contracts to circumvent the cap (i.e 1/3 of their current salary). Don't know if this would work, as I DON'T KNOW what the CBA will look like, but maybe it's a possibility ..

BTW ... as an aside, I don't mean to be snippy, and I appreciate most of your insights and opinions, as well as your analysis. Makes the days go by easier rooting for this team ...
Don't worry I dont take offense to it at all.

As for the cap. There is going to be one. Hard, soft, whatever, there is going to be something put in place. That's where my comments are coming from. Those salaries are going to count against us.

As for the possibility Brooks brings up, that's a dead end as well. Holik has already hinted that he isn't thrilled with rebuilding and Jagr has never been the "lets lead the youth" type.

If they get bought out, they aren't coming back. Period end of sentence.

Holik's going back to NJ and Jagr is going to Detroit if that happens. So essentially the Rangers would be coughing up dollars in the double digits of millions to send them to other teams. On the flip side, they probably can't trade them anywhere.

Once again they find themselves in a rock and hard place.

But Jagr and Holik alone bring in over 12 million dollars. Against a cap {Again be it hard or soft} it's still gonna appear as 20 million, regardless of what money we receive from other teams.

Already we're seeing their wonderful personalities come out. Holik's "I didn't sign up for this" and Jagr's optimistic but not to be underscored internal message of "it'll only take two or three years".

Those are EXACTLY the personalities this team doesn't need around it's youth at any price.

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03-20-2004, 06:45 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
yeah i mean the only difference of course being that Doan and Nagy are actually 27 and under and will still be in their prime when Phoenix rebuilds {which they've already been doing} where as Jagr is 32 and making probably more than both of them combined.

no difference at all there......
you are nocking jagr for preventing this team from LOSING!!!

this has nothing to do with age and salary differences it has to do with skill, by the same token you can nock nagy and doan because they prevent PHX from losing as well

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