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Holmgrem asking someone to waive their NMC, but who?

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Old
05-05-2009, 09:19 PM
  #76
The Pucks
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Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Do you understand that the Canadiens were going to sign Briere to a contract with an even larger cap hit when he was a FA? Do you understand that the Canadiens are looking for a center? Do you understand his cap hit is actually good compensation for his point production? And do you understand that the Canadiens DO in fact have the room and then some to take on Briere's salary? I understand that you're an idiot.

Call it a salary dump, because that's basically what it is, but the Flyers do not have to trade any of their players who have NMC's if they don't want to. Many teams would drool over getting Briere at his current contract considering some other contracts floating around out there and not to mention, HE'S A PRETTY DARN GOOD HOCKEY PLAYER.
Since your a relative newcomer here I am going to cut you some slack.

Resorting to name-calling is a bannable offence on HF boards, I wont report you, but if you cant find a better way to make a point your going to have a short life here.

Now to address your rant. If you bother to take the time to reread some posts you will see I have never dismissed Briere as a player, it is his contract that is the problem. 3 problems with his contract, 1st its for SIX more seasons, a huge financial commitment, 2nd its for 6.5 million cap hit, also HUGE. But the biggest problem is he has a NTC. What does that mean? If he is to be dealt he has control over where he goes. Now reread your rant, all those thing you claim Montreal was willing to do for him including a bigger contract. Why didnt Briere sign then? Becasue HE DOENST WANT TO PLAY FOR MONTREAL!!!!!!!!

Briere has a NTC, he doent want to play for Montreal. Where exactly in this does he have any trade value.

He is a salary dump calibure player right now, get over it, those are the facts.

Now also factor in these points, when Montreal made the offer to Briere, he wasnt comming of an injury plagued season, when Montreal made the offer to Briere he was 2 years younger. He will be 32 years old going into next season, he is becoming an injury risk again. He is in a declining value market.

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Old
05-05-2009, 10:43 PM
  #77
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To say that Briere is a "salary dump-caliber player now" is absolutely ridiculous. I must reiterate this:

97 points in 109 regular season games as a Flyer.

20 points in 23 playoff games as a Flyer.

250 points in 237 regular season games post-lockout.

54 points in 58 playoff games post-lockout.


If you really believe that Briere is not just a salary dump due to circumstances (Flyers tight to the cap/emergence of Carter, Richards, and Giroux), but that he is a "salary dump-caliber player," then you are just wrong.

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05-05-2009, 11:07 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
To say that Briere is a "salary dump-caliber player now" is absolutely ridiculous. I must reiterate this:

97 points in 109 regular season games as a Flyer.

20 points in 23 playoff games as a Flyer.

250 points in 237 regular season games post-lockout.

54 points in 58 playoff games post-lockout.


If you really believe that Briere is not just a salary dump due to circumstances (Flyers tight to the cap/emergence of Carter, Richards, and Giroux), but that he is a "salary dump-caliber player," then you are just wrong.
Nobody has questioned Brieres talent level or possbile help to many teams, he is a salary dump type player because his contract dictates it. There is no way Philly can get equal "player" compensation without taking back equal "cap hit". Therefor he is a salary dump type player. The less cap hit your willing to take back, the less asset value you can expent to receive.

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05-05-2009, 11:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Why the hell would Montreal want Briere?? We keep on having this conversation but it makes no sense.

A) Montreal already tried to get him an he chose Philadelphia. The same thing happened with Shannahan and Bob did not try to go after him when we was offering his services for dirt cheap.

B) Montreal's problem, is that its already too small at the center position, and by all accounts, they will try and solve that this summer.

C) Briere's cap hit is pretty bad, and with all the cap space Montreal has available to them this summer, my hunch is that at that price they would rather get a better player.

D) Why would the Habs help the Flyers get out of their Cap problems, plus offer them a good young goalie that is not costing us anything, and still has a few years left before he can become a UFA.

I would be VERY surprised if Briere is traded to Montreal.
^^THIS

If you want Montreal to take him you will be PAYING US. Brieres value is negative to Montreal, so either you take our garbage or you sweeten the deal with one of your good players/prospects.

Face reality and quit making these ******** proposals.

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05-05-2009, 11:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DeepOrange View Post
Vancouver (if they can't re-sign the Sedins)
Gillis has already stated that he wants no part of long term contracts for players over the age of 30. And if he's not willing to give the Sedins $6M+ why would he move assets to give an older Briere more?

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05-06-2009, 12:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Nobody has questioned Brieres talent level or possbile help to many teams, he is a salary dump type player because his contract dictates it. There is no way Philly can get equal "player" compensation without taking back equal "cap hit". Therefor he is a salary dump type player. The less cap hit your willing to take back, the less asset value you can expent to receive.
They can certainly receive a lesser (but still useful) player with a much smaller contract in return, and someone would definitely offer that. Or, conversely, Holmgren could send something else with Briere (if he decided to waive his NMC), and then the return could be nice. You're not looking at this issue from a wide perspective. Just because one team wouldn't give anything of value for Briere doesn't mean no team would.

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05-06-2009, 12:38 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
^^THIS

If you want Montreal to take him you will be PAYING US. Brieres value is negative to Montreal, so either you take our garbage or you sweeten the deal with one of your good players/prospects.

Face reality and quit making these ******** proposals.
A) Wrong; and B) I don't care if Montreal takes Briere or not, and neither do any Flyers fans. If Montreal WANTS Briere and is willing to trade and Briere is willing to waive his NTC, then maybe there is something to talk about. But no one is begging to trade Briere to Montreal. You're totally off-base.

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05-06-2009, 02:53 AM
  #83
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I had the thought a week or so ago when I read that Holmgrem was upset with Philly's ability in face-off's, that the Kings would go after Briere.

Big history between the Kings and Flyers now, and many Kings fans think there is some conspiracy "Philly connection". To some extent it is true. Also, from what I understand Lombardi pushed for Briere as a UFA.

Anyways, I could see Stoll or Zus getting dealt for Briere. Philly loses points, but picks up a clutch face-off guy, and save 2 mill+ in cap space, depending on which one. Even if it wasn't around Zus or Stoll, I can see DL wanting to pick up Briere.

Though I know most Kings fans would be horrified, I've always liked Briere since he broke out with the Yotes, and wouldn't mind him being a King.

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05-06-2009, 03:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I had the thought a week or so ago when I read that Holmgrem was upset with Philly's ability in face-off's, that the Kings would go after Briere.

Big history between the Kings and Flyers now, and many Kings fans think there is some conspiracy "Philly connection". To some extent it is true. Also, from what I understand Lombardi pushed for Briere as a UFA.

Anyways, I could see Stoll or Zus getting dealt for Briere. Philly loses points, but picks up a clutch face-off guy, and save 2 mill+ in cap space, depending on which one. Even if it wasn't around Zus or Stoll, I can see DL wanting to pick up Briere.

Though I know most Kings fans would be horrified, I've always liked Briere since he broke out with the Yotes, and wouldn't mind him being a King.
You like Briere for your team eh? How ready are Ersberg or Bernier?

Thoughts on Jon Quick + some salary for Briere (+ picks?)....?

Do you think the Kings would ever do it?

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:13 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
You like Briere for your team eh? How ready are Ersberg or Bernier?

Thoughts on Jon Quick + some salary for Briere (+ picks?)....?

Do you think the Kings would ever do it?
Oh god no.

Ersberg you can have, but not Quick or Bernier. Zatkoff, Jones, Taylor or Rowat maybe, but Quick was the sole reason the Kings weren't out of contention for the playoffs a month or two sooner.

I like Briere, but only really if we are sending back another center. We have two great 3rd line centers who are borderline 2nd line centers, and then two-three prospect centers we want to give time to. If we are getting Briere, we need to make roster space for him.

Next season will be the first in a LONG time where going in we won't be sweating bullets about the quality of our goaltending.

I know Briere is techinically worth Quick and probably more value-wise, but as far as I am concerned Quick is untouchable.

To make this easier, here's a list of players I would be willing to part with for Briere:

Stoll
Handzus
Boyle
Williams
Purcell
Ersberg
Harrold
Maaaaaybe Johnson, but I'm extremely iffy on that one. Only if his new contract turns out to be a big problem.
And any prospect not named Hickey, Voynov, Moller, Bernier or Loktionov.
Any pick but the 5th overall.

I guess if we sign Gaborik or Hossa, Frolov MIGHT be considered. Even then, I wouldn't like that because we'd still be weak at LW.

Not the sexiest list I know, but some good players on there and we are happy enough with everyone else to outweigh taking on Briere's contract. Mix and match to your hearts content.

Maybe something centered around Stoll or Zus and Ersberg? That would be ideal for the Kings. I think Ersberg still has starting potential. You get some salary relief, a good face-off/greatshutdown or a great face-off/good shutdown centerman, what will either be a cheap but solid back-up or potential starting goalie, some salary relief and big time term relief.


Last edited by JDM: 05-06-2009 at 05:18 AM.
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Old
05-06-2009, 05:13 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
You like Briere for your team eh? How ready are Ersberg or Bernier?

Thoughts on Jon Quick + some salary for Briere (+ picks?)....?

Do you think the Kings would ever do it?
It would be Ersberg of the three goalies and to answer your question, he played a decent number of games this season, so yes, he's ready.

For the record, I'd be pretty upset if the Kings traded for Briere. We'd sacrifice cap space to get softer. Okay that may be harsh considering Briere would help our scoring but I'd rather find it in other places. Plus, that contract is a killer.

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05-06-2009, 05:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Atlanta wants to get a right handed center for Kovalchuk. Briere fits the bill.

Briere for one of Atlanta's goalies?
I've been suggesting this for a while now. Briere for Pavelec+ makes sense to me. If the Flyers wants Lehtonen, it could take a little more. Maybe Briere + rights to Biron + 1st + ?

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05-06-2009, 05:52 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Maybe something centered around Stoll or Zus and Ersberg? That would be ideal for the Kings. I think Ersberg still has starting potential. You get some salary relief, a good face-off/greatshutdown or a great face-off/good shutdown centerman, what will either be a cheap but solid back-up or potential starting goalie, some salary relief and big time term relief.
Briere + Backlund (2.5 GAA in SEL last year) + 2010 3rd

FOR

Bernier + Stoll/Handzus

You take your pick of Stoll or Zus in that deal, we need face offs and a good third line center (I think Powe is better for the 4th line, and Giroux will be playing wing). If Quick's the guy, Bernier becomes a usable asset for your team to get better elsewhere right? Backlund is capable of being an NHL back up today, though his upside is admittedly less than Bernier's.

Or No dice ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
It would be Ersberg of the three goalies and to answer your question, he played a decent number of games this season, so yes, he's ready.

That contract is a killer.

I've been suggesting this for a while now. Briere for Pavelec+ makes sense to me. If the Flyers wants Lehtonen, it could take a little more. Maybe Briere + rights to Biron + 1st + ?
IIRC Briere's cap hit is higher than his salary this year, so that should be a factor for the Thrashers, who didn't spend to the cap last year, or even close I think. As far as Ersberg goes, he is the least valuable of your three goalies, no way a trade could happen around him and Briere. I guess the Flyers and Kings aren't good trading partners.

I am iffy on a trade with Briere and Pavelec as center pieces, I'd probably try to move Lupul and Jones off our team long before Briere. He is a point per game player, 6 millions not that bad, expecially since his contract goes down each year from here out.

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05-06-2009, 07:28 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Briere...well, Giroux...it's safe to say Giroux has surpassed Carter and Richards when they were about 45 games deep into their NHL careers. Giroux is going to be the face of the franchise before you know it.

So, that being said, is there room for Danny? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, he puts up #'s and is sooo good on the PP but there just isn't a need for him anymore with Giroux being as freakishly good as he is. Danny is a stand up guy, if he were asked to waive his clause, I truely think he would (especially considering is good buddy Biron is probably going to walk), but where will he go?

Does your team want Danny and what are you willing to give for him?

My 1st Proposal:
Flyers trade Briere to Canadiens for Halak and a 2nd '09 and 3rd '09.

2nd Proposal
Briere and 1st '10 to Canadiens for Halak, Komisarek and 3rd '09


Flyers dump the salary, get an "NHL ready prospect" goaltender and fill out some picks they're missing in the upcoming draft. Canadiens, after losing half their team this offseason, get, well, Danny Briere.

Komisarek is the perfect Flyer.
Yes, a 3rd of a season makes a career... your trades suck for Philly. ...Komi is a UFA and Halak is worse than Biron, and I'm NOT a fan of Biron (or the Flyers)

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05-06-2009, 07:39 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Briere + Backlund (2.5 GAA in SEL last year) + 2010 3rd

FOR

Bernier + Stoll/Handzus

You take your pick of Stoll or Zus in that deal, we need face offs and a good third line center (I think Powe is better for the 4th line, and Giroux will be playing wing). If Quick's the guy, Bernier becomes a usable asset for your team to get better elsewhere right? Backlund is capable of being an NHL back up today, though his upside is admittedly less than Bernier's.

Or No dice ?


IIRC Briere's cap hit is higher than his salary this year, so that should be a factor for the Thrashers, who didn't spend to the cap last year, or even close I think. As far as Ersberg goes, he is the least valuable of your three goalies, no way a trade could happen around him and Briere. I guess the Flyers and Kings aren't good trading partners.

I am iffy on a trade with Briere and Pavelec as center pieces, I'd probably try to move Lupul and Jones off our team long before Briere. He is a point per game player, 6 millions not that bad, expecially since his contract goes down each year from here out.
man, i'd love to have zeus back, and dealing briere is probably the only way that would ever happen. dunno how keen the kings would be to trade bernier, even if quick is the man.

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05-06-2009, 09:25 AM
  #91
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It's a bit silly to assume that these teams won't be willing to spend money because they are in "financial difficulties". In Atlanta's case, they need to improve the team for next season in order to lock up Kovalchuk. In addition, adding a big-name player like Briere will help revenues in addition to raising costs.

It's even sillier to assume these teams will spend money, because they A) Never have before and B) Are already trying to shed salary for reason including financial purposes (Phoeinix)..

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05-06-2009, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
It's a bit silly to assume that these teams won't be willing to spend money because they are in "financial difficulties". In Atlanta's case, they need to improve the team for next season in order to lock up Kovalchuk. In addition, adding a big-name player like Briere will help revenues in addition to raising costs.

It's even sillier to assume these teams will spend money, because they A) Never have before and B) Are already trying to shed salary for reason including financial purposes (Phoeinix)..
i think the moral of the story is not to assume

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05-06-2009, 09:51 AM
  #93
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Why the hell would Montreal want Briere?? We keep on having this conversation but it makes no sense.

A) Montreal already tried to get him an he chose Philadelphia. The same thing happened with Shannahan and Bob did not try to go after him when we was offering his services for dirt cheap.

B) Montreal's problem, is that its already too small at the center position, and by all accounts, they will try and solve that this summer.

C) Briere's cap hit is pretty bad, and with all the cap space Montreal has available to them this summer, my hunch is that at that price they would rather get a better player.

D) Why would the Habs help the Flyers get out of their Cap problems, plus offer them a good young goalie that is not costing us anything, and still has a few years left before he can become a UFA.

I would be VERY surprised if Briere is traded to Montreal.
Who are you going to get thats a better player? Hossa? Gaborik? Yea they're more skilled but they will also cost like 8 million. Are you going to trade for a better player with a lower cap hit, like say Ryan Getzlaf or Ilya Kovalchuk? Maybe Toews or Kane? You say it so nonchalantly, as if it were easy to find a player better than Briere for the same or less. If its a free agent you have no shot at all at signing someone who is a better player than Briere for $6.5m. The only way that happens is if this recession continues and players decide to take whatever they can get just to insure financial security, and I don't think we're at that point yet.

A lot of people here seem to not have a grip on reality. A $6.5m cap hit for a PPG top line center is not a bad deal. The only actual argument you have is the term of the contract. But he also only makes $3 and $2 million at the end of his deal. So, while his cap hit might be relatively high for an older player he would certainly be affordable to teams around the cap floor at the time. Also, who's to say he still isn't producing a decent amount, its not like its certain he's going to be putting up only 30 points a year at that time, he still might be putting up around 50-60, maybe more, no one knows.

I agree that it isn't as easy to move him as it would be if he were making $4m, but that would also be far less than what he is worth especially considering the Flyers signed him when he was the top free agent out there. However, this notion that he's grossly overpaid and not worth it is just ludicrous. Is he slightly overpaid? Yes, but thats because he was signed as a free agent. Practically anyone who signs as a UFA is going to be overpaid somewhat.

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05-06-2009, 10:01 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
The NHL made money this season, but most revenue was paid up a year ago, season tickets, advertising were all done before the real economic impacts were being realized. 2ndly have you noticed the drop in the Canadain dollar, that is a 20% hit to all the Canadian teams, and the previous rise of the Canadian dollar stimulated the growth of the cap.
I don't really understand the economics of the NHL, but the American dollar has appreciated over the last year by around 16% I believe, so shouldn't that help with the cap considering most of the revenue comes from the US?

Or does the fact that players are now more expensive to Canadian teams hurt the cap?

Or does it balance out?

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05-06-2009, 10:15 AM
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Who are you going to get thats a better player? Hossa? Gaborik? Yea they're more skilled but they will also cost like 8 million. Are you going to trade for a better player with a lower cap hit, like say Ryan Getzlaf or Ilya Kovalchuk? Maybe Toews or Kane? You say it so nonchalantly, as if it were easy to find a player better than Briere for the same or less. If its a free agent you have no shot at all at signing someone who is a better player than Briere for $6.5m. The only way that happens is if this recession continues and players decide to take whatever they can get just to insure financial security, and I don't think we're at that point yet.

A lot of people here seem to not have a grip on reality. A $6.5m cap hit for a PPG top line center is not a bad deal. The only actual argument you have is the term of the contract. But he also only makes $3 and $2 million at the end of his deal. So, while his cap hit might be relatively high for an older player he would certainly be affordable to teams around the cap floor at the time. Also, who's to say he still isn't producing a decent amount, its not like its certain he's going to be putting up only 30 points a year at that time, he still might be putting up around 50-60, maybe more, no one knows.

I agree that it isn't as easy to move him as it would be if he were making $4m, but that would also be far less than what he is worth especially considering the Flyers signed him when he was the top free agent out there. However, this notion that he's grossly overpaid and not worth it is just ludicrous. Is he slightly overpaid? Yes, but thats because he was signed as a free agent. Practically anyone who signs as a UFA is going to be overpaid somewhat.
I didn't say it was going to be easy, but like I said they will try to address the size problem this summer. Who know what they can do....make a trade, sign a UFA. I'm sure Bob Gainey will try many options before, making a deal for Briere. In fact, with the cap going down in 2010-2011, he might even hold off on overpaying for a player like Briere and waiting for the 2010 summer and that batch of UFA's which potentially will be much stronger. The things that people seem to be ignoring is that one of the main problems Montreal had is size down the middle...people have been complaining about it for years, and it been even more evident that its a major problem with the playoffs of the last 2 years. Bob Gainey has mentionned numerous times how he would like to get bigger down the middle...how would he look if he acquires Briere after that??

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05-06-2009, 11:33 AM
  #96
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I didn't say it was going to be easy, but like I said they will try to address the size problem this summer. Who know what they can do....make a trade, sign a UFA. I'm sure Bob Gainey will try many options before, making a deal for Briere. In fact, with the cap going down in 2010-2011, he might even hold off on overpaying for a player like Briere and waiting for the 2010 summer and that batch of UFA's which potentially will be much stronger. The things that people seem to be ignoring is that one of the main problems Montreal had is size down the middle...people have been complaining about it for years, and it been even more evident that its a major problem with the playoffs of the last 2 years. Bob Gainey has mentionned numerous times how he would like to get bigger down the middle...how would he look if he acquires Briere after that??
yeah, i dunno why people keep trying to trade him to montreal. if the habs want him, kudos, but i really don't see gainey trying to acquire him.

besides, briere is big where it counts

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05-06-2009, 12:54 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Oh god no.

Ersberg you can have, but not Quick or Bernier. Zatkoff, Jones, Taylor or Rowat maybe, but Quick was the sole reason the Kings weren't out of contention for the playoffs a month or two sooner.

I like Briere, but only really if we are sending back another center. We have two great 3rd line centers who are borderline 2nd line centers, and then two-three prospect centers we want to give time to. If we are getting Briere, we need to make roster space for him.

Next season will be the first in a LONG time where going in we won't be sweating bullets about the quality of our goaltending.

I know Briere is techinically worth Quick and probably more value-wise, but as far as I am concerned Quick is untouchable.

To make this easier, here's a list of players I would be willing to part with for Briere:

Stoll
Handzus
Boyle
Williams
Purcell
Ersberg
Harrold
Maaaaaybe Johnson, but I'm extremely iffy on that one. Only if his new contract turns out to be a big problem.
And any prospect not named Hickey, Voynov, Moller, Bernier or Loktionov.
Any pick but the 5th overall.

I guess if we sign Gaborik or Hossa, Frolov MIGHT be considered. Even then, I wouldn't like that because we'd still be weak at LW.

Not the sexiest list I know, but some good players on there and we are happy enough with everyone else to outweigh taking on Briere's contract. Mix and match to your hearts content.

Maybe something centered around Stoll or Zus and Ersberg? That would be ideal for the Kings. I think Ersberg still has starting potential. You get some salary relief, a good face-off/greatshutdown or a great face-off/good shutdown centerman, what will either be a cheap but solid back-up or potential starting goalie, some salary relief and big time term relief.
To La Briere, lupul to Pilly Williams, Boyle

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05-06-2009, 01:01 PM
  #98
Beukeboom Fan
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Wasn't Briere's contract significantly front loaded? If so, I think that would raise his value to a team whose internal budget is below the salary cap.

And just to address the economic issue earlier in the thread- the downturn in the economy had a relatively minor impact on this years revenue streams because the season tickets and luxury boxes all were purchased before the melt-down. The thought process is that there will likely be significantly less corporate support going forward (which is VERY impactful based on $/ticket), as well fewer tickets to the rest of us. Add in the slide in the Canadian $, and there should be significant concern for teams with a bunch of $'s committed, or who have big $ players with contract expiring.


Last edited by Beukeboom Fan: 05-06-2009 at 01:18 PM.
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Old
05-06-2009, 01:18 PM
  #99
JDM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Wasn't Briere's contract significantly front loaded? If so, I think that would raise his value to a team whose internal budget is below the salary cap.
IE: LA Kings under AEG.

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05-06-2009, 01:20 PM
  #100
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A likely destination for Briere would be Anaheim, they have a goalie sitting on the bench in Giguere signed for two more years with a 6M per year cap hit. A case of trading expensive overstock for expensive overstock.

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