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Holmgrem asking someone to waive their NMC, but who?

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Old
05-06-2009, 01:28 PM
  #101
The Pucks
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Originally Posted by Candiria92 View Post
I don't really understand the economics of the NHL, but the American dollar has appreciated over the last year by around 16% I believe, so shouldn't that help with the cap considering most of the revenue comes from the US?

Or does the fact that players are now more expensive to Canadian teams hurt the cap?

Or does it balance out?
The streangth or weakness of the American Dollar has virtually no effect on teams south of the boarder. They pay their bills in US funds and they receive their revenue in US funds therefor exchange rates have virtually no effects.

Canadian teams on the other hand are hit extreamly hard when the US dollar rises against the Canadian dollar. The Canadian teams take in revenue in the lower Canadian dollar, but payout salaries in US dollars, as much as a 30% extra cost in the past year, costing teams as much as 15-20 million extra Canadian dollars.

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05-06-2009, 01:30 PM
  #102
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Who are you going to get thats a better player? Hossa? Gaborik? Yea they're more skilled but they will also cost like 8 million. Are you going to trade for a better player with a lower cap hit, like say Ryan Getzlaf or Ilya Kovalchuk? Maybe Toews or Kane? You say it so nonchalantly, as if it were easy to find a player better than Briere for the same or less. If its a free agent you have no shot at all at signing someone who is a better player than Briere for $6.5m. The only way that happens is if this recession continues and players decide to take whatever they can get just to insure financial security, and I don't think we're at that point yet.

A lot of people here seem to not have a grip on reality. A $6.5m cap hit for a PPG top line center is not a bad deal. The only actual argument you have is the term of the contract. But he also only makes $3 and $2 million at the end of his deal. So, while his cap hit might be relatively high for an older player he would certainly be affordable to teams around the cap floor at the time. Also, who's to say he still isn't producing a decent amount, its not like its certain he's going to be putting up only 30 points a year at that time, he still might be putting up around 50-60, maybe more, no one knows.

I agree that it isn't as easy to move him as it would be if he were making $4m, but that would also be far less than what he is worth especially considering the Flyers signed him when he was the top free agent out there. However, this notion that he's grossly overpaid and not worth it is just ludicrous. Is he slightly overpaid? Yes, but thats because he was signed as a free agent. Practically anyone who signs as a UFA is going to be overpaid somewhat.
Alot of people here dont think you have a grip on reality.

There are very few teams willing to take on a 32 yearold player with a cap hit of 6.5 million for the next SIX seasons coming off an injury plagued season.

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05-06-2009, 01:33 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by HABitual Fan View Post
A likely destination for Briere would be Anaheim, they have a goalie sitting on the bench in Giguere signed for two more years with a 6M per year cap hit. A case of trading expensive overstock for expensive overstock.
That type of deal is far more likely to happen than most that have been posted here. You take my dirty laundry, I take yours.

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05-06-2009, 01:34 PM
  #104
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No way,I don't wanna see Daniel in a Habs uniform.He had the chance to sign in Montreal and preferred Philadelphia,nothing wrong with that,now let him enjoy it there and the Flyers can enjoy the rest of his contract!

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05-06-2009, 01:42 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
To La Briere, lupul to Pilly Williams, Boyle
eeeh.... that would definately bolster the Kings roster a bit, but we would still need another winger, and adding ~6 mill overall won't help us in that endevour.

Interesting place to start though...

How 'bout

Briere, Lupul, 2nd this year + 5th next year (or maybe Powe instead of the picks) to LA for
Williams, Handzus and Boyle?

LA takes on 10.750 mill in cap through 2012, and 6.5 through 2014.
Philly takes on 7.5 mill in cap through 2011. 0 after.

Net gain for LA/loss for Philly = 3.25 in cap hit.

Mmmm... still, I like Briere, but really don't want Lupul that much. If the Kings can work it out so we can still add a top sixer after losing Zus and Williams and taking on Breire and Lupul, while also retaining money for Frolov, Doughty and Quick, then I'd be OK with it. But that seems sticky.

Let's try and keep Lupul out of this.

But, just for ***** sake,

Frolov-Kopi-Lupul
Moller-Briere-Purcell (interesting, but so damn soft and tiny)
(UFA-Moen?)-Stoll-Brown (that would be one tough little line!)
Clune-Lewis-Simmonds

Not too shabby I guess. Actually cap wise it's not terrible either. I think my rough math puts that team at about a 46 million cap hit if the D stays the same. Leaves the extra 3-4 in cap hit we'll need to resign Frolov. But really we still need that extra top sixer, and I don't think taking on Briere and Lupul feasibly allows that to happen. I still don't like that both are long term contracts. It would also be a shame for Brown to outscore Lupul for the next several years at over a million $$ less.

Oy, I bet my fellow Kings fans are absolutely disgusted with me!

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05-06-2009, 01:52 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
eeeh.... that would definately bolster the Kings roster a bit, but we would still need another winger, and adding ~6 mill overall won't help us in that endevour.

Interesting place to start though...

How 'bout

Briere, Lupul, 2nd this year + 5th next year (or maybe Powe instead of the picks) to LA for
Williams, Handzus and Boyle?

LA takes on 10.750 mill in cap through 2012, and 6.5 through 2014.
Philly takes on 7.5 mill in cap through 2011. 0 after.

Net gain for LA/loss for Philly = 3.25 in cap hit.

Mmmm... still, I like Briere, but really don't want Lupul that much. If the Kings can work it out so we can still add a top sixer after losing Zus and Williams and taking on Breire and Lupul, while also retaining money for Frolov, Doughty and Quick, then I'd be OK with it. But that seems sticky.

Let's try and keep Lupul out of this.

But, just for ***** sake,

Frolov-Kopi-Lupul
Moller-Briere-Purcell (interesting, but so damn soft and tiny)
(UFA-Moen?)-Stoll-Brown (that would be one tough little line!)
Clune-Lewis-Simmonds

Not too shabby I guess. Actually cap wise it's not terrible either. I think my rough math puts that team at about a 46 million cap hit if the D stays the same. Leaves the extra 3-4 in cap hit we'll need to resign Frolov. But really we still need that extra top sixer, and I don't think taking on Briere and Lupul feasibly allows that to happen. I still don't like that both are long term contracts. It would also be a shame for Brown to outscore Lupul for the next several years at over a million $$ less.

Oy, I bet my fellow Kings fans are absolutely disgusted with me!
flyers don't have a 2nd round pick because Holmgren deals them like they're going out of fashion. maybe drop lupul for jones and then take boyle/zeus out? i have no idea what the kings need besides top-6 forwards.

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:00 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
flyers don't have a 2nd round pick because Holmgren deals them like they're going out of fashion. maybe drop lupul for jones and then take boyle/zeus out? i have no idea what the kings need besides top-6 forwards.
I'd do Breire + Jones for Williams + Handzus.

Kings really only need 2 things.

Top 6 LW
Bottom 6 LW

A middle pairing Dman or Vet backup wouldn't be awful, but we can definately live without either, so we aren't going to take on any big salary or pay big to get one.

There is a lot of debate among us whether we need a 2nd line center or not. Some are still convinced it will be Boyle, but not me. I'm OK with Stoll, but many are not and want to dump one of Stoll/Zeus ASAP. Some still think it will be Moller, who I personally like better at wing. If we can get rid of Stoll or Zus in the process, I would love a legit 2nd line center, even at Briere's cost. I'm OK spending between 5-7 mill for a really good second line center. Then again, this could be one of the thousands of reasons I'm not qualified to run a hockey team.

Lombardi also looooves draft picks, so those can never be factored out when talking real world trade possibilities. If he keeps finding guys like Loktionov in the 5th round, we can safely value 3rd-5th round picks more than most teams.

Why not just Zus for Briere, straight up? Take a 3rd or 4th rounder if you need a sweetener. I'll think that's pretty evening when you consider all the pros and cons of each player.

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:39 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'd do Breire + Jones for Williams + Handzus.
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Briere, Lupul, 2nd this year + 5th next year (or maybe Powe instead of the picks) to LA for
Williams, Handzus and Boyle?


Oy, I bet my fellow Kings fans are absolutely disgusted with me!
You sure got that last part right. These deals are plain awful. Williams is a 70 point guy. Briere is around 80. 10 points is not the difference between Handzus and Jones. There's way more wrong with these proposals but I'll quit there.

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05-06-2009, 02:55 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
You sure got that last part right. These deals are plain awful. Williams is a 70 point guy. Briere is around 80. 10 points is not the difference between Handzus and Jones. There's way more wrong with these proposals but I'll quit there.
Technically, Williams has only hit 70 points once in his career, so and that was his best year of 76 points. Using that as a baseline, Briere's a 95 point guy, not "around" 80.

I love the certainty mentioned as if Williams is guaranteed 70 and Briere might hit 80 as justification. Truth is, Williams is "around a 60 point player" and Briere is "around an 80 point player."

Now, that being said, Briere in the right environment can threaten 100 points - he doesn't get the opportunity in Philly because of their deep roster and their penchance for taking penalties. I doubt he'll ever hit 100, but it's easy to see him hitting 90 again in his career in the right situation. Is that LA? Don't know. Just pointing out the inconsistency.

Now, I have no idea about the trade itself, so I'll reserve comment on that.

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05-06-2009, 02:56 PM
  #110
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You sure got that last part right. These deals are plain awful. Williams is a 70 point guy. Briere is around 80. 10 points is not the difference between Handzus and Jones. There's way more wrong with these proposals but I'll quit there.
I refer to you the middle of my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM
Then again, this could be one of the thousands of reasons I'm not qualified to run a hockey team.

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Old
05-06-2009, 04:14 PM
  #111
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I didn't say it was going to be easy, but like I said they will try to address the size problem this summer. Who know what they can do....make a trade, sign a UFA. I'm sure Bob Gainey will try many options before, making a deal for Briere. In fact, with the cap going down in 2010-2011, he might even hold off on overpaying for a player like Briere and waiting for the 2010 summer and that batch of UFA's which potentially will be much stronger. The things that people seem to be ignoring is that one of the main problems Montreal had is size down the middle...people have been complaining about it for years, and it been even more evident that its a major problem with the playoffs of the last 2 years. Bob Gainey has mentionned numerous times how he would like to get bigger down the middle...how would he look if he acquires Briere after that??
Hey the size issue is a totally legitimate argument, and I wasn't arguing that Briere would be a great fit for Montreal. I was just saying its not like Briere isn't a top offensive player, and that $6.5m for a top offensive player on the open market is what is to be expected. I feel like most of the people on here feel like thats a ridiculous amount to pay for a player of his caliber when it really isn't at all. Its not a bargain, but its not a rip off either. The problem with the deal is the length not the money.

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Alot of people here dont think you have a grip on reality.

There are very few teams willing to take on a 32 yearold player with a cap hit of 6.5 million for the next SIX seasons coming off an injury plagued season.
Thats fair, but its not like its a 32 year old player with a $6.5m contract that can't play anymore. And its not like his injury was a serious concussion. He would be on the top line on most teams in the league, and thats the basis of my argument. He is good enough to warrant the contract he received. Period. Its a large contract, and one that is difficult to move but it is not a horrible overpayment, its just not. It may be difficult to find a trading partner but its not impossible, and a team that is looking to win right now would most likely be interested if they were in need of scoring. And when his contract winds down he could be dealt (if he wanted to, which is a big if I would think) to a team near the cap floor because they would be able to afford his cap hit and his salary.

I'm not saying he's got the best contract in the world, or its a bargain deal. Its not. Its a slight overpayment, and its a long deal, but it is not the worst contract in the league. I just don't understand why people seem to think its the most horrible thing in the world.

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Old
05-06-2009, 04:20 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'd do Breire + Jones for Williams + Handzus.
.
That's a done deal in my book

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05-06-2009, 05:27 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
It is a bit early to name this kids the face of the franchise--flyers have lots of kids around and this guy maybe good--but cojuld be riding the shirtails for his stats like lupul and penner do
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Yeah because it's Asham and Powe making Giroux look like ****ing Forsberg.

That's a brilliant theory.
If I were you I wouldn't bother wasting my time with someone who, from thisvery statement, obviously has never even seen Giroux play.

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05-06-2009, 05:41 PM
  #114
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I quit reading after the 3rd page of the same stupid stuff from bith sides.

Here's the reality of the situation boys, the Flyers would LOVE to move Briere. He's no longer "necessary" for the Flyers to be a competative team ONLY because of the emergance of Carter (Giroux is nice but if Carter hadn't become a true #1 center then the Flyers would NOT even consider moving Briere). Moving Briere would permit the Flyers to make a run at J-Bo, something that Holmgren has said he intends to do. HOWEVER, Briere is still an excellent player on a contract that is probably fair-market value (thoug it is a bit too long). The Flyers will NOT be paying another team to "take him off our hands". Contrary to what many on here seem to think, the Flyers do not HAVE to move Briere and they are not DESPERATE to move him. I think the Flyers would be willing to accept a 2nd for him but probably not much less. His contract isn't ungodly as many seem to think. It's far from a bargin so the return won't be high either. However, there is no reason for the Flyers to pay another team a top prospect or high draft pick just to take his contract off our hands. Briere would be a major asset to just about any team he'd join.

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Old
05-06-2009, 06:58 PM
  #115
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and if he does get traded, i expect you to let everyone know how wrong you were

Just like the trade deadline?

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05-06-2009, 07:31 PM
  #116
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Just like the trade deadline?
I doubt he goes anywhere either and that's ok. Personally I'd rather have that money to throw at J-Bo and Carles money to throw (along with Birons money) at a goalie. I think overall we'd be a better team. However, Briere is far superior to anything we have to take his place on offense and when healthy he more than earns his money.

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Old
05-07-2009, 02:10 AM
  #117
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That's a done deal in my book
If we could do that deal, and send Lupul+ for Harding, I'd be in my glory. We'd only need a backup goalie and a veteran physical defenseman (and to re-sign Knuble and Alberts) to be set. We'd have the cap space to do it, too.

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05-07-2009, 06:52 AM
  #118
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What is the point of the thread? No wheres has Homer said that he'd ask anyone to waive there NTC/NMC's.

Oh and people, Briere isn't going anywheres.

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05-07-2009, 06:56 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'd do Breire + Jones for Williams + Handzus.

Kings really only need 2 things.

Top 6 LW
Bottom 6 LW

A middle pairing Dman or Vet backup wouldn't be awful, but we can definately live without either, so we aren't going to take on any big salary or pay big to get one.

There is a lot of debate among us whether we need a 2nd line center or not. Some are still convinced it will be Boyle, but not me. I'm OK with Stoll, but many are not and want to dump one of Stoll/Zeus ASAP. Some still think it will be Moller, who I personally like better at wing. If we can get rid of Stoll or Zus in the process, I would love a legit 2nd line center, even at Briere's cost. I'm OK spending between 5-7 mill for a really good second line center. Then again, this could be one of the thousands of reasons I'm not qualified to run a hockey team.

Lombardi also looooves draft picks, so those can never be factored out when talking real world trade possibilities. If he keeps finding guys like Loktionov in the 5th round, we can safely value 3rd-5th round picks more than most teams.

Why not just Zus for Briere, straight up? Take a 3rd or 4th rounder if you need a sweetener. I'll think that's pretty evening when you consider all the pros and cons of each player.
briere, jones for williams, zeus? sold.

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05-07-2009, 06:59 AM
  #120
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briere, jones for williams, zeus? sold.
Yep, definitely sold.

I'd love to see Zeus back for a couple of seasons and it would allow us to keep Gagne long term.

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05-07-2009, 07:54 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'd do Breire + Jones for Williams + Handzus.

Kings really only need 2 things.

Top 6 LW
Bottom 6 LW

A middle pairing Dman or Vet backup wouldn't be awful, but we can definately live without either, so we aren't going to take on any big salary or pay big to get one.

There is a lot of debate among us whether we need a 2nd line center or not. Some are still convinced it will be Boyle, but not me. I'm OK with Stoll, but many are not and want to dump one of Stoll/Zeus ASAP. Some still think it will be Moller, who I personally like better at wing. If we can get rid of Stoll or Zus in the process, I would love a legit 2nd line center, even at Briere's cost. I'm OK spending between 5-7 mill for a really good second line center. Then again, this could be one of the thousands of reasons I'm not qualified to run a hockey team.

Lombardi also looooves draft picks, so those can never be factored out when talking real world trade possibilities. If he keeps finding guys like Loktionov in the 5th round, we can safely value 3rd-5th round picks more than most teams.

Why not just Zus for Briere, straight up? Take a 3rd or 4th rounder if you need a sweetener. I'll think that's pretty evening when you consider all the pros and cons of each player.
Lombardi said he's done with draft picks. They've drafted so many players they don't know what to do with all of them. He's not going to take more just to do a deal, he'll take more if it makes sense.

This is not make sense.

They acquired Williams for a specific reason, because he is a big, veteran scorer, who is still within the prime of his career, and has won a Stanley Cup.

Michal Handzus is their 3rd line center, who takes the pressure off of other players, and if Murray lets the leash go a bit, even more so. They're not even thinking about getting rid of either player.

Briere would be a long-term investment to a team thinking long-term and building from their core. Briere is neither of these, and he won't be interested in going to a team who isn't expecting to win the Stanley Cup next year.

Randy Jones might not make their team. They have Doughty, Quincey, and JMFJ, and if Hickey, Drewiske or Voinov are around, they don't need or want Jones. Jones wouldn't fit into their financial structure.

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05-07-2009, 12:28 PM
  #122
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Yep, definitely sold.

I'd love to see Zeus back for a couple of seasons and it would allow us to keep Gagne long term.
Agreed.

I think it's funny how so many posters bash Briere. Give me someone on your team who has his point production who will sign for less of a cap hit? Briere is a very good hockey player, even on the 3rd line with different linemates in each come back he was still a point per game player (.93 or something rather). Some teams might not want him because they can't afford him, but I think if any GM had the chance they would take on Briere in a fair trade.

In all honesty, getting rid of Briere and his contract is something the Flyers SHOULD do for the sake of keeping the likes of Carter, Gagne and Coburn, upgrading in net and getting a bruiser on the blue line. Holmgrem knows his situation, he soo over paid in the Carcillo/Upshall trade but he kind of had to and this situation is very similar. I would not be surprised to see Briere traded this off season but I would be very surprised if the Flyers win in the return. Perhaps Briere for a 1st is all we'll get. What team do you think would give up a 1st in this years draft for good ol' Danny?

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05-07-2009, 01:05 PM
  #123
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Agreed.

I think it's funny how so many posters bash Briere. Give me someone on your team who has his point production who will sign for less of a cap hit? Briere is a very good hockey player, even on the 3rd line with different linemates in each come back he was still a point per game player (.93 or something rather). Some teams might not want him because they can't afford him, but I think if any GM had the chance they would take on Briere in a fair trade.

In all honesty, getting rid of Briere and his contract is something the Flyers SHOULD do for the sake of keeping the likes of Carter, Gagne and Coburn, upgrading in net and getting a bruiser on the blue line. Holmgrem knows his situation, he soo over paid in the Carcillo/Upshall trade but he kind of had to and this situation is very similar. I would not be surprised to see Briere traded this off season but I would be very surprised if the Flyers win in the return. Perhaps Briere for a 1st is all we'll get. What team do you think would give up a 1st in this years draft for good ol' Danny?
can't think of any. if anything, briere would require a hefty contract coming back for those teams to consider danny. 6.5 is a big commitment for teams with uncertain cap futures.

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05-07-2009, 01:13 PM
  #124
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can't think of any. if anything, briere would require a hefty contract coming back for those teams to consider danny. 6.5 is a big commitment for teams with uncertain cap futures.
That's probably true but if all we asked for was a pick in return I think a lot of GM's mouths would start to water.

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05-07-2009, 01:16 PM
  #125
Zal
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post

Kings really only need 3 things.

Top 2 Defensive D-Man <----
Top 6 LW
Bottom 6 LW
In a big way.

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