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Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes

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Old
05-05-2009, 06:50 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
The ticket prices are going to be insane if they move to Hamilton even temporarily. If the team stinks then this team will lose just as much as money as the Coyotes are.
You just contradicted yourself. If they couldn't support a team, wouldn't they have cheaper tickets. If they prices are high, doesn't that mean that there will be a demand for them. Leafs had stunk for years. There is big enough market to support a team that stinks as people want to watch quality hockey. But judging by the Coyotes prospect depth, the team should be very succesful for a long time builiding a fan base to help support them...

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05-05-2009, 06:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
The ticket prices are going to be insane if they move to Hamilton even temporarily. If the team stinks then this team will lose just as much as money as the Coyotes are.
People were lining up to put money down on season tickets when Balsille pulled that stunt with Nashville.

Though Copps is a pretty big dump... I still think people would go.

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05-05-2009, 06:53 PM
  #28
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Maybe some of the well versed BK folks can shed some light on a few things:

- Since it's a Ch 11 reorg, does the court have the final say on who gets to buy the team as maximizing $$ back to the creditors I think would have to be the primary objective and thus, Balsillie's offer if the highest, would more than likely be accepted by the court regardless of what the BoG says, but I don't know the rules enough to say this with confidence.

- If the court grants the franchise to Balsille and his Delaware LLC group, can the courts "force" the league to accept the franchise being relocated to Southern ON? And if this is the case, does that mean Balsille could fight any territorial right claim fees that Toronto or Buffalo may request?

Lots of questions, but it looks like Jim may have pulled an end-around to join the NHL owner's fraternity!

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05-05-2009, 06:53 PM
  #29
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Short Arizona republic piece - doesn't add much new info:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...yotes0506.html

Quote:
Coyotes file for bankruptcy

32 comments by Craig Harris - May. 5, 2009 04:10 PM
The Arizona Republic

The Phoenix Coyotes have filed for Chapter 11 reorganization to implement a court-approved sale of the team under the federal bankruptcy code, the team announced Tuesday.

The filing included a proposed sale of the franchise to PSE Sports & Entertainment, LP, a Delaware limited partnership ("PSE"), which would move the franchise to southern Ontario, Canada.

"Extensive efforts have been undertaken to sell the team, or attract additional investors, who would keep the team in Glendale," said Coyotes' Chief Executive Officer and Managing Member Jerry Moyes,

Creating a process under the supervision of a judge assures that anyone wishing to purchase the team will have the opportunity to bid, Moyes added.

"Likewise, the City of Glendale, which has been very cooperative with efforts to keep the team in Glendale, will be able to provide potential buyers assurances of the City's willingness to offer incentives to keep the team as a tenant in the Jobing.com arena, the lease for which is subject to rejection in bankruptcy," Moyes said. "The process assures that the identities of the new owner and the team's location will be known by June 30, 2009, thus enabling the NHL to include the team in its 2009-10 schedule."

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05-05-2009, 06:55 PM
  #30
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I was just thinking about this the other day.

I don't think they'll allow it. I can't see the NHL approve a deal with it being contingent on relocation.

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05-05-2009, 06:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Can't wait until the team is 25 points out of the playoffs, and they are drawing like the Islanders do. Then we can all laugh at the team vultures.
The difference is, this is a hockey market. Long Island doesn't have the market for hockey that Southern Ontario does. Southern Ontario isn't as highly populated as NYC is, but it is arguably the fourth largest market USA/Canada after NYC, LA and Chicagoland.

*Note before someone brings up the list of US metro populations(CSMA) that are inflated and calculated different than Canada's(CMA), consider that if Toronto was in the USA it would include Oshawa, Hamilton, Niagara, Guelph, Brantford and maybe even K-W etc in it's population bringing the total to over 8 million..

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05-05-2009, 06:57 PM
  #32
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A second Toronto team would actually hurt those teams that need revenue-sharing, because the gigantic increase in revenue that a Southern Ontario team creates over an Arizona team would drive the cap higher, driving player salaries higher, thus strangulating the low-income teams even more.


Anyone arguing that the team won't be profitable are insane. Southern Ontario could have 5 teams. Southern Ontario is hockey's version of Californian basketball teams.

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05-05-2009, 06:59 PM
  #33
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I think that's checkmate. Whether he gets them out immediately is one thing, but correct me if I'm wrong, the league has pretty much lost their hammer here. If he's the only significant bidder, their only other option would be to purchase and run the team themselves.

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05-05-2009, 06:59 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
If he brings the team to Hamilton, get ready for $50 nosebleed seats.

That arena is a complete dump.

By the way, the Bulldogs averaged about 4600 per game during the regular season in a so called hockey market...

San Antonio had over 5000 per game...

It's not as great as people think.
I guess we should move the Leafs out of Toronto then, because the Marlies average less than Hamilton. Hamilton wants an NHL team - anything less than that then they're not interested.

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05-05-2009, 07:00 PM
  #35
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i havent read the entire thread, so pardon me if its already addressed.

i really have no problem with Balsille and his attempts but why cant he just keep his mouth shut until its a done deal. its like he is poking gary with a stick, why take that route?

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05-05-2009, 07:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by tgarrett29 View Post
I'm guessing if they move to So ON, they would have to remain in the Western Conference. Isn't there an unwritten agreement out there about Detroit getting to move to the Eastern Conference before any other team does as I believe Ilitch has requested this in the past. As to Nashville moving into the Pacific Conference, I don't see it happening as geographically, it makes no sense whatsoever to do this.
It would be hard to argue. I am sure the league would veto the Detroit mving to the east when a southern Ontario team is clearly further east and would create a great rivalry with Toronto and Buffalo

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05-05-2009, 07:04 PM
  #37
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Go Balsillie Go!




PS Not that I want to see Phoenix lose their team I just loving watching Balsillie screw with Bettman!

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05-05-2009, 07:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I was just thinking about this the other day.

I don't think they'll allow it. I can't see the NHL approve a deal with it being contingent on relocation.
And who exactly is going to line up to buy the Coyotes in Phoenix? The NHL, before this, was looking like it was going to end up having to run them themselves. There is almost no chance that the owners will agree to fund the Coyotes. NHL hockey is Phoenix is done.

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05-05-2009, 07:05 PM
  #39
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Ever considered that Balsille is doing this for the sake of Research in Motion?

This is a company that basically runs the city of Waterloo. They recently hired (or are in the process of hiring) something like 3000 new employees. One of the big things that hurts their ability to recruit the top tech-people is the fact that they are in Waterloo. Since they've basically been responsible for much of the town's development over the last 10 years, I wouldn't be surprised if they are HEAVILY invested in real estate there.

What better way to increase the value of your real estate and make your company much more attractive to work for (thereby making it more powerful) then by growing the city by putting an NHL team there?

It's sort of the backwards way to approach it (use the NHL team to grow the city instead of growing the city to get an NHL team); but thats gotta be in the back of his mind.

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05-05-2009, 07:05 PM
  #40
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It would be hard to argue. I am sure the league would veto the Detroit mving to the east when a southern Ontario team is clearly further east and would create a great rivalry with Toronto and Buffalo
IIRC, Chicago doesn't want to lose their rivalry with Detroit and I'm sure that would play into any consideration. But considering how highly Mr. Ilitch is thought of by the NHL and the owners, and the fact that road trip television coverage means late, LATE start times for fans of the team in Detroit, if a move to the east is something that Mr. Ilitch feels strongly about versus a relocated team getting to move east (not to mention what Columbus or Nashville may or may not feel about staying out west), I'd think the league would have to listen.

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05-05-2009, 07:06 PM
  #41
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A second Toronto team would actually hurt those teams that need revenue-sharing, because the gigantic increase in revenue that a Southern Ontario team creates over an Arizona team would drive the cap higher, driving player salaries higher, thus strangulating the low-income teams even more.


Anyone arguing that the team won't be profitable are insane. Southern Ontario could have 5 teams. Southern Ontario is hockey's version of Californian basketball teams.
Are you insane??? Who pays for the 300 million dollar rinks ???? (and that's just for starters)

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05-05-2009, 07:08 PM
  #42
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i pray this happens, i can't help but feel sorry for the dedicated PHX fans that have tried to help this team make it work but this team can really flourish in SO or somewhere in canada, he looks deadset on moving it to SO and isn't hiding it

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05-05-2009, 07:08 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgarrett29 View Post
Maybe some of the well versed BK folks can shed some light on a few things:

- Since it's a Ch 11 reorg, does the court have the final say on who gets to buy the team as maximizing $$ back to the creditors I think would have to be the primary objective and thus, Balsillie's offer if the highest, would more than likely be accepted by the court regardless of what the BoG says, but I don't know the rules enough to say this with confidence.

- If the court grants the franchise to Balsille and his Delaware LLC group, can the courts "force" the league to accept the franchise being relocated to Southern ON? And if this is the case, does that mean Balsille could fight any territorial right claim fees that Toronto or Buffalo may request?

Lots of questions, but it looks like Jim may have pulled an end-around to join the NHL owner's fraternity!
As I understand it - this does not necessarily override the requirement for league approval for the sale and move. The support or opposition of the BoG would be a factor that the Bankruptcy Court judge would have to consider if there were competing (even if somewhat lower) bids.

A couple of possible scenerios:

1. Balsillie is the only bidder, the league relents, and it is "Hamilton here I come".
2. A competing lower bid (with league and City of Glendale support) is accepted.
3. The bankruptcy court orders the sale over the leagues objections, th e league tries to block the move, Balsillie goes all Al Davis, and it ends up in the hands of the Canadian Competition Bureau and the courts.
4. The bankruptcy court judge orders both the sale and relocation over the objection of the league - which would bring an interesting different set of lawsuits.

Sadly, I think #1 is the most likely option.

The big guestion is what happens to the $750M liquidated damages to Glendale. If they are treated as an unsecured creditor, their claim might dilute those of other creditors, and those creditors may actually get a better return on their debt by accepting a lower local bid.

Any you got to feel real sorry for Jerry Moyes - he may get nothing for the 'Yotes and still be on the hook (barring personal bankruptcy) for any personal guarantees backstopping the lease agreement.

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05-05-2009, 07:09 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Egil View Post
And who exactly is going to line up to buy the Coyotes in Phoenix? The NHL, before this, was looking like it was going to end up having to run them themselves. There is almost no chance that the owners will agree to fund the Coyotes. NHL hockey is Phoenix is done.
They'd find a way to do it. They're not just going to walk away from a large market in a warm weather city. That's Bettman's baby.

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05-05-2009, 07:09 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I was just thinking about this the other day.

I don't think they'll allow it. I can't see the NHL approve a deal with it being contingent on relocation.
Think again.
The NHL is not in the business of directly funding/financing its franchises.
They'll approve the sale, imho.

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05-05-2009, 07:10 PM
  #46
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Whoa, thats a big-time offer. As much as the NHL is an "old-boys" club and Bettman is blindly against moving a franchise, they may have to let the current owner out of the team with the money they've been losing.

RIM has had some really good results lately so the timing makes sense.
RIM stock is still down $75.00 a share from last summer. (I know, the hard way)


Last edited by The Messenger: 05-05-2009 at 07:21 PM.
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05-05-2009, 07:10 PM
  #47
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And who exactly is going to line up to buy the Coyotes in Phoenix? The NHL, before this, was looking like it was going to end up having to run them themselves. There is almost no chance that the owners will agree to fund the Coyotes. NHL hockey is Phoenix is done.
I haven't seen a link or any other proof except for chatter that Jerry Reinsdorf may be thinking of putting a bid in on the team (he may have been one of the folks that recently looked at the books of the team to consider buying them), but I'd be hard pressed to think of a potential owner that is going to be able to outbid Balsille for the team, unless you're talking Paul Allen or perhaps Les Alexander. And the end result would be the same ... they would want the team to relocate, in this case, to Portland or Houston respectively. Finding a person who would outbid Jim to keep the team in Phoenix has to be a long shot, at best.

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05-05-2009, 07:11 PM
  #48
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Hopefully he gets it. Im sick of the revenue sharing BS in crappy markets where theres lots of other places the team would flourish.

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05-05-2009, 07:11 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I was just thinking about this the other day.

I don't think they'll allow it. I can't see the NHL approve a deal with it being contingent on relocation.
So the owners wouldn't approve a team going from revenue sharing to paying into revenue sharing?

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05-05-2009, 07:12 PM
  #50
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As I understand it - this does not necessarily override the requirement for league approval for the sale and move. The support or opposition of the BoG would be a factor that the Bankruptcy Court judge would have to consider if there were competing (even if somewhat lower) bids.

A couple of possible scenerios:

1. Balsillie is the only bidder, the league relents, and it is "Hamilton here I come".
2. A competing lower bid (with league and City of Glendale support) is accepted.
3. The bankruptcy court orders the sale over the leagues objections, th e league tries to block the move, Balsillie goes all Al Davis, and it ends up in the hands of the Canadian Competition Bureau and the courts.
4. The bankruptcy court judge orders both the sale and relocation over the objection of the league - which would bring an interesting different set of lawsuits.

Sadly, I think #1 is the most likely option.

The big guestion is what happens to the $750M liquidated damages to Glendale. If they are treated as an unsecured creditor, their claim might dilute those of other creditors, and those creditors may actually get a better return on their debt by accepting a lower local bid.

Any you got to feel real sorry for Jerry Moyes - he may get nothing for the 'Yotes and still be on the hook (barring personal bankruptcy) for any personal guarantees backstopping the lease agreement.
I'm not sure the bankrupcty court judge is responsible for dealing with the league. He's responsible for getting the creditors their money back



Very interesting suggestion with Portland.... perhaps this move inspires the NHL to get on board with assisting with the financing of a person to move the team to Portland; in hopes that they can develop a market there rather than just leech off an already strong market.


Last edited by seanlinden: 05-05-2009 at 07:18 PM.
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