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Lecavalier or Thornton

View Poll Results: Who would you rather we go after?
Vinny Lecavalier 190 68.84%
Joe Thornton 86 31.16%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:13 PM
  #26
Ghostki
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Money aside, Vinny brings ALOT more of what we need to the table here in MTL than joe, not even close. If he's healthy and willing to carry the load it takes to play here, we get a super star player for the next 10 years! To have a superstar player, you need to pay a superstar player a star players' salary. Keepin mind that his cap hit is not 10$M either. We have quality assets to build around him for the next 4 to 5 years, which is better than TB can say, for now.

Bad contract. Yeah. I mean Hell Yeah. But we also get a new leader with elite size, skill and drive we all cry about around here. He'll attract FA's here. He'll be the face of a new identity this team needs and a local boy to boot. Good for the team on the ice, bad for the team in the offices. Depends on which one we follow.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:15 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Both contracts come up to about the same as far as cap hit goes.
Thornton is at 7.5M$ and Lecavalier will be at 7.7M$ starting next year.

Main difference is that you might lose Thornton in 2 years while you can keep Lecavalier until the 16/17 season after which he costs next to nothing if you want to buy him back.

I voted for Joe but I don't think he wins because of his contract, on the contrary since you can lose him pretty soon and even if you keep him, do you think he'll ask for a pay cut?
It says here that Vinny will get paid 10 mill starting next year. (http://www.nhlnumbers.com/sort.php)

Only 7.7 counts in the cap? I'm not sure how this works, do you have a source?

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05-05-2009, 11:16 PM
  #28
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Much is being said about Vinny's contract but... you pay for what you get! Thornton is a choker, so I find that it's a very high price to pay for someone who won't show up...

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:17 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Caekslap View Post
It says here that Vinny will get paid 10 mill starting next year. (http://www.nhlnumbers.com/sort.php)

Only 7.7 counts in the cap? I'm not sure how this works, do you have a source?
You have to average out the full amount of the contract on the lenght of the contract.

If you look on that site, you'll see that next to the players name, they have a row for "09/10 Cap #" and that's what counts on the cap.

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05-05-2009, 11:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Much is being said about Vinny's contract but... you pay for what you get! Thornton is a choker, so I find that it's a very high price to pay for someone who won't show up...
You don't know what could happen in a different organization.

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05-05-2009, 11:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Caekslap View Post
You don't know what could happen in a different organization.
Well, we've seen that he's no different in San Jose than he was in Boston.

But your argument could also go for Lecavalier. You don't know what could happen to him once he comes to a high pressure market where people expect him to change water into wine.

Am not pushing for one more than the other although I prefer Thornton but all I'm saying is that no matter who you pick, it's not that clear cut.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:22 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Well, we've seen that he's no different in San Jose than he was in Boston.

But your argument could also go for Lecavalier. You don't know what could happen to him once he comes to a high pressure market where people expect him to change water into wine.

Am not pushing for one more than the other although I prefer Thornton but all I'm saying is that no matter who you pick, it's not that clear cut.
Fair enough.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caekslap View Post
You don't know what could happen in a different organization.
True, Thornton has only choked with two organizations thus far. Why not make it three to prove the point?

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:24 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhf1 View Post
They're both great players, I choose Lecavalier because of his better playoff performances.
ummmm? Thornton's history of playoff choking is way overblown. In his rookie year he put up 0 points in 6 games siply because he should not have been in the nhl at the time. I mean he only put up 7 points in 55 games during the season, and in 04 he was simply too hurt to play. he should not have been playing at all and mustered no points in 7 games. Excluding those 13 games he has 53 points in 63 games, hardly choking. By comparison Lecavalier would only have 46 points in the same number of games. Factor in that Thornton is a lot better during the regular season (not to mention more durable) and has a much more cap friendly contract the choice should be easy. Age also isn't even a factor as only 3 months seperate the two in that category. The way I see it is this. Lecavalier is a 70-80 point guy who gets paid like a 100 point guy, where as Thornton is a 90-100 point guy who gets paid like an 80 point guy. On top of that, Thornton makes those around him better, a lot better, where as Lecavalier hasn't shown he can do that.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:30 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
has a much more cap friendly contract the choice should be easy.
The cap hit is irrelevant here, Joe is at 7.2 and Lecavalier is at 7.7.
At that point, I don't think 500k is "much more" cap friendly.

I agree with everything else you say, just not about one of the contracts being more cap friendly.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:33 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
The cap hit is irrelevant here, Joe is at 7.2 and Lecavalier is at 7.7.
At that point, I don't think 500k is "much more" cap friendly.

I agree with everything else you say, just not about one of the contracts being more cap friendly.
You didn't answer my previous question actually.

Isn't Lecavalier paid 10 mill next season?

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:36 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
The cap hit is irrelevant here, Joe is at 7.2 and Lecavalier is at 7.7.
At that point, I don't think 500k is "much more" cap friendly.

I agree with everything else you say, just not about one of the contracts being more cap friendly.
it is much more cap friendly when you factor in the additional 9 years that Lecavalier is on the books.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:39 PM
  #38
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Thornton and its not even close in my opinion.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:41 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Orange View Post
Lecavalier was pivotal to his team's Stanley cup run. We all know and seen first hand how useful Thornton is in the playoffs.
Pivotal? He was fourth in TB scoring that playoff behind Richards, st Louis and Modin. He was tied for 3rd in goals (9) behind Fedotenko and Richards tied at 12. He was 19th out of 22 TB players for plus minus at -2 when they won the cup


Vinny had zero game winning goals that Cup run. Richards had seven GWG and won the Conn Smythe trophy. Vinny had zero OT goals that run.

Vinny was a good contributor, but pivotal? No way. And that was Vinny's best playoff.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:42 PM
  #40
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if you take thorntons last 45 games he has more points than vinny in the playoffs..

vinny was the 4th best player on his team when tampa won the cup....

thornton played with dafoe and a rookie as goalies in boston and nabokov who should be getting more blame for letting in softies..

although vinny does play with more of an edge....thornton does produce more and just look at how much better other players become when playing with him

i am suprised the poll is so one sided..probably based on joe's playoff performances which include his rookie year and the year he played with a broken rib

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05-05-2009, 11:46 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Pivotal? He was fourth in TB scoring that playoff behind Richards, st Louis and Modin. He was tied for 3rd in goals (9) behind Fedotenko and Richards tied at 12. He was 19th out of 22 TB players for plus minus at -2 when they won the cup


Vinny had zero game winning goals that Cup run. Richards had seven GWG and won the Conn Smythe trophy. Vinny had zero OT goals that run.

Vinny was a good contributor, but pivotal? No way. And that was Vinny's best playoff.
Wow. This.

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05-05-2009, 11:46 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
i am suprised the poll is so one sided..probably based on joe's playoff performances which include his rookie year and the year he played with a broken rib
i think it has to do with hab hatred towards Thornton as a Bruin and the ongoing fascination of Lecavalier, the home town boy playing for the habs. If you break it down, there is not many reasons to choose Lecavalier over Thornton. Add in, one has 7 PPG seasons while the other 2.

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:22 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
ummmm? Thornton's history of playoff choking is way overblown. In his rookie year he put up 0 points in 6 games siply because he should not have been in the nhl at the time. I mean he only put up 7 points in 55 games during the season, and in 04 he was simply too hurt to play. he should not have been playing at all and mustered no points in 7 games. Excluding those 13 games he has 53 points in 63 games, hardly choking. By comparison Lecavalier would only have 46 points in the same number of games. Factor in that Thornton is a lot better during the regular season (not to mention more durable) and has a much more cap friendly contract the choice should be easy. Age also isn't even a factor as only 3 months seperate the two in that category. The way I see it is this. Lecavalier is a 70-80 point guy who gets paid like a 100 point guy, where as Thornton is a 90-100 point guy who gets paid like an 80 point guy. On top of that, Thornton makes those around him better, a lot better, where as Lecavalier hasn't shown he can do that.
This, nothing more to be said.

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05-06-2009, 12:42 AM
  #44
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I'd take either but would prefer Thornton I think. Awesome playmaker.

Think of Thornton on the Habs vs. the Bruins, that would be pretty cool.

Who are we giving up for Thornton/Lecavalier anyway?

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05-06-2009, 12:47 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
ummmm? Thornton's history of playoff choking is way overblown. In his rookie year he put up 0 points in 6 games siply because he should not have been in the nhl at the time. I mean he only put up 7 points in 55 games during the season, and in 04 he was simply too hurt to play. he should not have been playing at all and mustered no points in 7 games. Excluding those 13 games he has 53 points in 63 games, hardly choking. By comparison Lecavalier would only have 46 points in the same number of games. Factor in that Thornton is a lot better during the regular season (not to mention more durable) and has a much more cap friendly contract the choice should be easy. Age also isn't even a factor as only 3 months seperate the two in that category. The way I see it is this. Lecavalier is a 70-80 point guy who gets paid like a 100 point guy, where as Thornton is a 90-100 point guy who gets paid like an 80 point guy. On top of that, Thornton makes those around him better, a lot better, where as Lecavalier hasn't shown he can do that.
Thank you!! The biggest problem with me is Lecavaliers health... He seems to have been worn out ever since his 50 goal year and just had a major injury. I dunno if I would risk that. I think Thornton would be more effective because we need a big playmaking center more than a scoring one. A.Kost would be AMAZING with Thornton no doubt. He is a floating Russian who can snipe the puck with the best of them... all he needs is a big, hardworking center to make room and make plays!!!! Joe is the best of the best for that. **** the playoff thing... like most people have said, its a new organization, he would be surrounded by new players. (Better players offensively). He would make much more of a difference than Lecavalier imo.

To conclude, I would love to have either, but the chivalry's injury scares me and so does his contract and ability to take the pressure of being the hometown hero.

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:25 AM
  #46
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I dont see why thornton would stay in Montreal after this contract. He never hitted the free market. Without any roots here, I think he will test it.

As bad as Vinny's contract is, we would be sure to get him for long time. For the cap hit, the last 3 years do not really count since they can buy him out. And people talk about his 52 goals season like it was a decade ago. 52-40-29 are goals for last 3 season and was injured last season.

Habs lost all their games without Markov.Not being able to score. Tampa did not have a QB on their pp this year and missed Boyle for 45 games the year before.

+/- is the worst stats. Who was the goalies and defencemen of Tampa since lock-out?

With that said, I would not say no to thornton. Just not ready to give too much for only 2 seasons of him.

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:34 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The one who if he had a chance might actually show up in the playoffs.
x2


No question....Vinny.

Thornton terribly over-rated garbage assist guy....

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05-06-2009, 02:52 AM
  #48
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My problem with Vinny is his health concerns. He just had a lousy season. And is coming off of what, his 2nd or third surgery?

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05-06-2009, 02:54 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
His development would be accellerated 10 fold.

Thornton is 2.5 mil cheaper per year over the next two seasons and then he's a FA. Lecavalier is 10 mil over the next SEVEN seasons. And in his 8th season he'll be making a million more than Thornton will next year.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can vote for Lecavalier except that San Jose would want a ton of players for Joe. Otherwise its a no-brainer here.
Ok you convinced me. Plus, looking at regular season stats, Lecavalier has 2 seasons above 80 pts while Joe has ...5. In playoffs, Joe doesn't live up to his "disapearance" self in being close to a ppg production in the last 4 years, similar as Vince. Plus, contract is a must. Joe it is for me.

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05-06-2009, 02:59 AM
  #50
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Ok you convinced me. Plus, looking at regular season stats, Lecavalier has 2 seasons above 80 pts while Joe has ...5. In playoffs, Joe doesn't live up to his "disapearance" self in being close to a ppg production in the last 4 years, similar as Vince. Plus, contract is a must. Joe it is for me.
I'll take Vinny and his scoring ability and ability to raise his game when it matters at this stage of his career.

I've lived in the Bay Area for a long time and have had a long look at Joe Thornton. No thanks. But Joe needs some muscle on his line, as does Vinny.

It comes down to this, I'd rather my best player be a scorer, not a passer.

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