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Lecavalier or Thornton

View Poll Results: Who would you rather we go after?
Vinny Lecavalier 190 68.84%
Joe Thornton 86 31.16%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:00 AM
  #51
Mother Pucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Much is being said about Vinny's contract but... you pay for what you get! Thornton is a choker, so I find that it's a very high price to pay for someone who won't show up...
His ppg production in the last 4 years is close to a ppg...sometimes it is best not to believe what you here about certain players..

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Old
05-06-2009, 05:35 AM
  #52
shortcat1
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Neither, thank you.

Thornton, for obvious reasons... things just seem to fall apart for him when it comes to the crunch.

Lecavalier, again for obvious reasons... the contract - too much for too long and his potential health issues.

BUT...

forced to make a choice, I'd go with Thornton. He seems healthier and, from what I understand, his contract is essentially the same moneywise but not as long.

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Old
05-06-2009, 07:39 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Mother Pucker View Post
Ok you convinced me. Plus, looking at regular season stats, Lecavalier has 2 seasons above 80 pts while Joe has ...5. In playoffs, Joe doesn't live up to his "disapearance" self in being close to a ppg production in the last 4 years, similar as Vince. Plus, contract is a must. Joe it is for me.
Sounds to me like Joe has the ability to make his linemates score lots of goals and become better players. I've yet to see Lecavalier do that.

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Old
05-06-2009, 07:45 AM
  #54
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Lecavalier and it's not even close,we are going to add a guy that doesn't show up when needed the most?Joe would get ripped in Montreal and it was already said he escaped the media from Boston which is like 3 reporters,imagine in Montreal when they follow him home...

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Old
05-06-2009, 08:39 AM
  #55
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Thornton without a doubt. The whole disappearing in the playoffs doesn't apply anymore. Since he joined the sharks he is almost a point per game player in the playoffs.

Thornton's Playoff PPG - 0.7
Lecavalier's Playoff PPG - 0.73

Not much of a difference there.

Thornton's Playoff PPG since joining the sharks - 0.85

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:05 AM
  #56
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asking habs fans who to choose between those two is like asking them if they rather have Poutine or a hot dog : Poutine wins every time

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:08 AM
  #57
Melvin Udall
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This is a "no brainer".

Vinny has been an integral part of winning a Cup and Joe has won squat!

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:11 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
Lecavalier was pivotal to his team's Stanley cup run. We all know and seen first hand how useful Thornton is in the playoffs.
Lecavalier was his team's 4th or 5th best player in that playoff run. St.Louis and Richards were the offensive leaders by far. He was good, but not great with 16pts in 25 games.

Any team with Lecavalier as it's best player has done zilch in the playoffs.

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:14 AM
  #59
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I think with a change of scenery Thornton could perform in the playoffs (not saying in Mtl he would though).

Personally I'd rather Thornton anyways.

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:21 AM
  #60
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I can't believe how stats are thrown around in this topic. Sometimes I wonder if people still watch the games.

I mean, saying Lecavalier was only the 4th best player because of the stats the year they won the Cup. We certainly didn't watch the same finals. Lecavalier was just unbelievable.

Thornton is not the same player when it comes to playoffs hockey. He can't adjust to the playoffs style. I think he will get it in the next year or two though. But still this year, it was so brutal and drastically different than in regular season.

And to the guy that said he wouldn't take either one of them. I mean, it's easy to bash players because of their contracts but the Habs do need a #1 center. Except if you're satisfied with Koivu-Pleky-Lang-Lapy. I'm not.

Who are you going to get instead?

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:21 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I think with a change of scenery Thornton could perform in the playoffs (not saying in Mtl he would though).

Personally I'd rather Thornton anyways.
I agree with this.

ALL things considered (contract, term, stats, what it would take to acquire said player, etc) I take Thornton.

I think he would be fine on a team with strong character. Koivu would help Thornton a lot I think.

Lots of people knock Thornton because he's an easy target, but they give guys like Iginla a free pass, but Calgary hasn't done much in the playoffs either.

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05-06-2009, 09:27 AM
  #62
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Thornton is a much better player. Cheechoo becamr a 50 goal scorer with him ! Lecavalier isn't even close of the player thornton is. Every player who play with thornton turn into something good. You know, when you've got a guy that can snipe a puck like Andrei Kostitsyn, Joe thornton is the ideal center. And believe me, in a real hockey city, Thornton would be way more motivated in the playoffs. San Jose is a good team but not in a hockey city. The one who say Lecavalier are fanboys. Lecavalier is way softer than thornton is is career stat are not better. Thornton can score goals, it's just that he prefer passing it. Lecavalier do not have thornton's vision and grit.

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Old
05-06-2009, 10:22 AM
  #63
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Voted Vinny , But somthing tells me Joe would be a better fit .. only down fall of joe is his playoff past .. he would defenatly make his wingers shine . thats for damn sure

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Old
05-06-2009, 10:43 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchendoh View Post
I mean, saying Lecavalier was only the 4th best player because of the stats the year they won the Cup. We certainly didn't watch the same finals. Lecavalier was just unbelievable.
Put Thornton on that team in VL's place and they still win the cup and Richards, St.Louis and Khabibulan are still the three leading contenders for the Conn from the TB side. At the time he was a very good player. Not a great player.

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Old
05-06-2009, 11:02 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchendoh View Post
I can't believe how stats are thrown around in this topic. Sometimes I wonder if people still watch the games.

I mean, saying Lecavalier was only the 4th best player because of the stats the year they won the Cup. We certainly didn't watch the same finals. Lecavalier was just unbelievable.

Thornton is not the same player when it comes to playoffs hockey. He can't adjust to the playoffs style. I think he will get it in the next year or two though. But still this year, it was so brutal and drastically different than in regular season.

And to the guy that said he wouldn't take either one of them. I mean, it's easy to bash players because of their contracts but the Habs do need a #1 center. Except if you're satisfied with Koivu-Pleky-Lang-Lapy. I'm not.

Who are you going to get instead?
yeah stats don't count.

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Old
05-06-2009, 11:19 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Caekslap View Post
You didn't answer my previous question actually.

Isn't Lecavalier paid 10 mill next season?
Yes, Lecav is paid 10 mil a year until 2016/2017 when it drops to 8.5M, then the following years it drops to 4M, then 1.5M, then 1M. But his cap hit remains 7.727M.

I'm not sure who I'd choose between the two. Joe's playoff PPG has certainly improved (around 0.85) since he came to San Jose, but after watching the Shark's series I wasn't all that impressed, but he still had managed to get 5pts in 6 games. The contract status is also a topic of debate for me - Lecavalier seems to be fighting osme injury problems, and he's still signed on for another decade vs. Thornton signed two more years. I don't know if many people would want a 7.727M cap hit from Lecav at age 39.

It was brought up earlier that Lecavalier had a poor season this year, and didn't match his 06/07 totals in 07/08, but he's been fighting injuries and had surgery - it's also interesting to note that Thornton has seemingly been declining aswell - 92pts in 58 games in his first stint with the Sharks (125pts that season); then 114 points, then 96 points, then 86 points this season.

Either way, they're both big bodied centres (though atleast to me it seems that Lecav uses his size more) and either would be great to acquire, I'm just not sure at what cost.

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Old
05-06-2009, 11:19 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
That's not even close. Lecavalier all the way.
Lecavalier is way better imo.

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05-06-2009, 11:27 AM
  #68
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I voted Lecavalier but after seeing both players contracts I'd go with Thornton.

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Old
05-06-2009, 11:43 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CastroLeRobot View Post
asking habs fans who to choose between those two is like asking them if they rather have Poutine or a hot dog : Poutine wins every time
Great analogy. Perhaps BOTH are bad for us???

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Sumhabs View Post
Lecavalier is way better imo.
look at thornton's stat vs lecavalier's stats:

thornton: 842 points in 836 games.

Lecavaliers: 669 in 787.

I don't know how you can think that lecavalier is better.

Lecavalier is a career minus 89 !!! -89 !!!

Thornton is a career plus 114 !!! +114


Lecavalier - 89 vs thornton + 114 ..what do you want??????

here's from espn sports

While concerns over Jason Spezza’s plus/minus may be speculative, there is tangible evidence to be presented when it comes to Lecavalier. Among the most offensively gifted players in the game, Lecavalier’s minus-17 was a big blight on an otherwise terrific campaign. The Lightning added a whole bunch of offense during the offseason but didn’t make many improvements defensively and may have even taken a hit by shipping out Brad Lukowich and Dan Boyle for Matt Carle and Ty Wishart. With more options to score in Tampa Bay as well, Lecavalier may have to share some of the bounty. "Vinny" is still a fantasy stud, but that dead weight of a plus/minus keeps him a step behind some of the other top centers.

in fantasy drafts, most people take thornton at the 11th position, while they take lecavalier at the 20th position...it tells a lot.


Last edited by Habs12max: 05-06-2009 at 12:10 PM.
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Old
05-06-2009, 12:11 PM
  #71
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going to take Thornton. He's already better than Vinny in the regular season and almost as good in the playoffs...but... I have a huge feeling Thornton is about to burst out in the playoffs, like Datsyuk, he really I feel will carry his team far soon.

Risky, but I think its worth it.

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05-06-2009, 12:20 PM
  #72
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going to take Thornton. He's already better than Vinny in the regular season and almost as good in the playoffs...but... I have a huge feeling Thornton is about to burst out in the playoffs, like Datsyuk, he really I feel will carry his team far soon.

Risky but I think its worth it.
And I think it's even less risky than Vinny with all things considered.

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:24 PM
  #73
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Lecavalier.

The reason is Thornton wouldn't survive here. He'll already be feeling personal pressure because of his failure to win in the playoffs. Couple that with the pressure to play in Montreal and I don't believe he'll be successful here. We need that big #1 centre to take us up a notch. Does Joe Thornton play big?

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:40 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
x2


No question....Vinny.

Thornton terribly over-rated garbage assist guy....
Your going to have to explain this concept to me. It's quite easy to see that Glen Murray and Patrick Marleau both had their best years once they started playing with Thornton and Cheechoo didn't score 56 goals having me set him up. Snipers are good and all, but they don't score all their goals on end-to-end rushes.

I honestly don't like either player all that much but I would have to take Thornton before Lecavalier.

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:59 PM
  #75
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Vinny for many reasons....

1. Get over the contract BS people. It's a difference of $500,000 on the cap and Vinny would be locked in longterm whereas Joe would be gone after 2 years. I like Vinny's contract better.

2. You can't compare stats like +/- when Joe played on good Boston & San Jose teams while Vinny played on quite a few terrible Tampa teams. From 02-07 Vinny's +/- was +25.

3. Vinny's production all year was hampered by injury and he had surgery to correct it just before the season ended. He will be an 80-90 point guy for quite some time. Since 2002 he has had 486 pts in 481 games, taking into account his latest injury this past season that's pretty good.

4. Vinny is a more balanced player, has more heart, and is more of a competitor than Joe.

5. Maybe the Montreal media will s t f u about non-frenchies on the habs.

Did I convert any Joe voters?

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