WCHL All-Star Left Wing (1922, 1923, 1924)
WHL All-Star Left Wing (1926) NHL All-star (1927, 1928)
HHOF induction (1958)
Double U Tee F, mate. Hay was an NHL all-star before the all-star teams existed?!
Also, that Jack Adams quote is horrible. I give exactly 0% credence to quotes about a player from his coach, his teammates or his grandmother. Please call me on it if I trot out the equally horrible Frank Boucher quote about Bill Cook, though I never will.
Hay was an NHL all-star before the all-star teams existed?!
The NHL general managers were polled at the time to make up an unofficial all-star team.
Everything is to be taken together, not individually.
Alright he had heavy praise from ex-teammates and ex-coach. But also heady praise from a top sports writer and by those who voted into the HHOF. And the fact that he was an all-star in other leagues before the NHL later in his career. And how he's cited as among the greats in talk of the era.
I am utterly amazed at how someone could rely on a goal scoring stat as "objective" and scoff off a ton of other indicators as simply being "subjective".
Shocked that we could get a guy like Rollins this late. Top-two in Hart voting twice (1953, 1954) and one Vezina win to go along with another runner-up (1952-53). Calder runner-up to Sawchuk in '51 as well.
He's the perfect regular season compliment for Vezina, with the ability to start and steal games in the post-season if necessary.
Shocked that we could get a guy like Rollins this late. Top-two in Hart voting twice (1953, 1954) and one Vezina win to go along with another runner-up (1952-53). Calder runner-up to Sawchuk in '51 as well.
He's the perfect regular season compliment for Vezina, with the ability to start and steal games in the post-season if necessary.
Al Rollins is a pretty nice selection. I had him second on my list if Gusev was taken.
That's the little disadvantage of trading up in the first half. I'm like VanI, thinking I can get strong value in the later round anyway, but those one/two ''dropper'' by round, the O'Connor, Hadfield and Rollins are pretty tough to get your hands on, has you have other needs to fill. To get one of those guys (O'Connor), I had to select him before finishing my fourth line, my third pairing D and my backup G.
Pit is making a good job snapping dropper at his selection and assemble them together. Seems like the kind of plans that work perfectly.
sorry for missing my pick - we've been preparing for graduation all day and i was quickly side-tracked.
with their skipped pick, the kenora thistles are pleased to finish their defence by adding a very sturdy defensive defenceman from the dynasty canadiens...
#24 bob turner (d)
it seems as though turner should be selected right alongside dollard st.laurent. both were steady defensive defenceman for the 50's canadiens. both were 5 time cup winners. both were five time all-stars. dollard had slightly better offensive numbers - though turner had a better offensive season.
The NHL general managers were polled at the time to make up an unofficial all-star team.
Everything is to be taken together, not individually.
Alright he had heavy praise from ex-teammates and ex-coach. But also heady praise from a top sports writer and by those who voted into the HHOF. And the fact that he was an all-star in other leagues before the NHL later in his career. And how he's cited as among the greats in talk of the era.
I am utterly amazed at how someone could rely on a goal scoring stat as "objective" and scoff off a ton of other indicators as simply being "subjective".
Sturm is right that the Adams quote can't be seen as all that important in the grand scheme of things. But I don't know that you needed to be grilled for that. We can decide for ourselves how important it is. And like you said, it's just a piece of the puzzle, along with the other quotes, his accomplishments, his HHOF induction, and his impressive goal-scoring placements.
By the way, do you have those full all-star teams?
Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes
sorry for missing my pick - we've been preparing for graduation all day and i was quickly side-tracked.
with their skipped pick, the kenora thistles are pleased to finish their defence by adding a very sturdy defensive defenceman from the dynasty canadiens...
#24 bob turner (d)
it seems as though turner should be selected right alongside dollard st.laurent. both were steady defensive defenceman for the 50's canadiens. both were 5 time cup winners. both were five time all-stars. dollard had slightly better offensive numbers - though turner had a better offensive season.
Just to clarify.
Five time all-star game participants. Automatically, as members of the cup-winning team.
Not five-time all-stars.
Which is fine, it just doesn't serve as evidence that they were top-4 blueliners in the league or even top-8. Just means they "might have been" 5th-10th best in the league and sent to the ASG on merit alone.
And, you could say it is just as important that they contributed to a cup winner five times.
An excerpt from Chapman's legendsofhockey.net bio:
"Chapman played his final NHL season. During his career, he had often been chided for playing too defensively, but Chapman would give his standard reply 'If you can stop them from scoring, you'll get a goal in time.'"
Jeez... the one place I didn't look.
Quote:
As for Bowie - reality of the game when he played was that it was a very, very violent game. A lot of stick work. A lot of vicious plays. And keep in mind that it's the time before helmets and the pads that we have now. If you didn't have that edge to you, that ability to get them before they got you, you didn't survive very long. The descriptions of the game's early years aren't always pretty. The Hockey: A People's History series that the CBC did a few years back was very well done, I thought, and they show the turn of the 20th century hockey to be one the roughest and toughest times in the history of the sport.
I like Bowie and want to see him get more recognition. Demonstrating that he did play in the best league available to him, was a good step towards clearing up any misconceptions about him.
But, I don't want us to go too far. We can't make assumptions about a player that we can't verify in any way. This is a lot like the old "if you played in the O6 era, you had to be good defensively" saying that I am not too fond of. We need to judge players within the context of their eras and there is nothing to suggest that Bowie was one of the toughies of his time, and that evidence exists for others from the same era.
