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Coyotes Financial/Ownership Situation #3

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Old
05-07-2009, 12:06 AM
  #51
kombayn
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If Reinsdorf saves the team, he has to re-name this team the Arizona Coyotes, it boggles my mind they still call them the Phoenix Coyotes. If they cannot save this team, I say for the good of the NHL, move them to Southern Ontario and let them become the Ontario Jets.

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05-07-2009, 12:55 AM
  #52
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Thanks. Just trying not to accidentally push any wrong buttons here
God Darn it does this mean I have to kiss up to Mouser as well? Do we have 3 mods now?

BTW does anyone see the Irony: when I go to TSN.CA every video clip they have talking about this or relating to this is preceded by a Blackberry commercial.

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05-07-2009, 01:02 AM
  #53
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it boggles my mind they still call them the Phoenix Coyotes.
I don't remember a clamoring to rename the Los Angeles Kings, who played in Inglewood CA for 32 years. And the folks in Kanata ON seem to like their Ottawa Senators just fine. Just like the Phoenix Coyotes.

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:10 AM
  #54
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ok so IF things play out as the league would like. Ball-sack will need 23 owners to vote for approval of him purchasing the team. Guessing, What 23 teams would sign up for Ball-Silly owning this (or any club for that matter)?

Teams that would Vote NO:
Pittsburgh
Us (i.e. The league)
Nashville
Toronto?
Buffalo is openly said their against this.
Would other "non traditional Cities vote no?" FLA, TB, CAR, ATL etc
Would either LA team like further travel for a new divisional foe?

I really don't think their is a 2/3rds majority here to even grant this in the first place?

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05-07-2009, 01:26 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
ok so IF things play out as the league would like. Ball-sack will need 23 owners to vote for approval of him purchasing the team. Guessing, What 23 teams would sign up for Ball-Silly owning this (or any club for that matter)?

Teams that would Vote NO:
Pittsburgh
Us (i.e. The league)
Nashville
Toronto?
Buffalo is openly said their against this.
Would other "non traditional Cities vote no?" FLA, TB, CAR, ATL etc
Would either LA team like further travel for a new divisional foe?

I really don't think their is a 2/3rds majority here to even grant this in the first place?
Why would anyone on the BoG vote yes when the franchise rights to the region are worth more than Balsille's offer to the coyotes. Even if this deal is legitimate, and there is an auction for the team, any additional bids would go to Moyes, and not the league, and there will surely be a bidding war if the contingency to move to the region is included.

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05-07-2009, 02:07 AM
  #56
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Bettman does not want the yotes to go to Southern Ontario because he wants to expand there once he has put franchises in places like Kansas , and Las Vegas . The Ultimate agenda of Gary Bettman is to gain more fans .Moving the team to SO ONT doesn't gain more fans just better revenue . If the franchise moves - the creditors get the cash . If NHL expands to ONT and they sell a franchise for $400 million and all of the Owners get most of the cash . Expanding teams to US cities creates more fans for the game .....According to what was said on CBC this evening .All are pretty unaminous thinking the Yotes are not going anywhere .

On the other hand you would think owners would vote yes to move the team so they don't have to dish out any more cash to the Yotes franchise .


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05-07-2009, 02:10 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by indczn View Post
Why would anyone on the BoG vote yes when the franchise rights to the region are worth more than Balsille's offer to the coyotes. Even if this deal is legitimate, and there is an auction for the team, any additional bids would go to Moyes, and not the league, and there will surely be a bidding war if the contingency to move to the region is included.
I would think that the teams in trouble would vote no .If the Yotes move the league revenue goes up , increasing the cap making it harder for struggling teams .

I would also think that the richer teams would vote yes so they wouldn't have to keep sending some of thier revenue to struggling teams .

Toronto votes no as well as Buffalo

I believe they need only 16/30 teams to vote for a franchise to move
23/30 of the Owners to vote in the new owner ..could be wrong


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05-07-2009, 03:32 AM
  #58
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Who's going to court tomorrow? If anyone wants to carpool PM me. I'm leaving from 128th and Shea at 12:30 PM and we can meet up at Mimi's at the 101 and Shea. I can fit 4-5 in along with myself.

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05-07-2009, 04:07 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by yotes2009 View Post
Who's going to court tomorrow? If anyone wants to carpool PM me. I'm leaving from 128th and Shea at 12:30 PM and we can meet up at Mimi's at the 101 and Shea. I can fit 4-5 in along with myself.
Is this officially the correct information?

The hearing is 1,30p (been reported in a couple places)
It's at the federal court house downtown. 230 N 1st Ave
Phoenix, AZ 85003 - court room will be either on the 6th or 7th floor.

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05-07-2009, 04:11 AM
  #60
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the thing is it seems like as bob mccoun on a toronto radio station has said "this team is an abyss, 30 mil a year just gets thrown into it." Which is unfortunately true. People don't show up and unfortunately the team isnt making money. I'm bias because I live in Southern Ontario, but if i had $200+ million to spend I wouldn't DARE buy the team with an intention to keep it in Phoenix. Sadly though if Balsillie wins this case (i doubt he will) you guys would be left without a franchise which is a shame because the people on this board are obviously fans.

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05-07-2009, 05:00 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
the thing is it seems like as bob mccoun on a toronto radio station has said "this team is an abyss, 30 mil a year just gets thrown into it." Which is unfortunately true. People don't show up and unfortunately the team isnt making money. I'm bias because I live in Southern Ontario, but if i had $200+ million to spend I wouldn't DARE buy the team with an intention to keep it in Phoenix. Sadly though if Balsillie wins this case (i doubt he will) you guys would be left without a franchise which is a shame because the people on this board are obviously fans.
Not to shoot the messenger here but it's been said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, they need to ice a winning team if they want to solve attendance issues.

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Old
05-07-2009, 05:44 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by yotes2009 View Post
Who's going to court tomorrow? If anyone wants to carpool PM me. I'm leaving from 128th and Shea at 12:30 PM and we can meet up at Mimi's at the 101 and Shea. I can fit 4-5 in along with myself.
Love to but I have an appointment to attend.

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05-07-2009, 05:44 AM
  #63
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Who's going to court tomorrow?
I'll see you in court! (besides they've got my money)

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Old
05-07-2009, 08:43 AM
  #64
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Actual Bankruptcy Paperwork...

from Five for Howling - SBNation


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/11...Bankruptcy.pdf

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05-07-2009, 10:08 AM
  #65
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I am about 60% sure I will attend, but for me I am already downtown. But we still don't know a room or judge? However I guess I could follow all the people in the Media and see which room they go to. I think it can only be on the 6th or 7th floor.

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05-07-2009, 10:11 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
ok so IF things play out as the league would like. Ball-sack will need 23 owners to vote for approval of him purchasing the team. Guessing, What 23 teams would sign up for Ball-Silly owning this (or any club for that matter)?

Teams that would Vote NO:
Pittsburgh
Us (i.e. The league)
Nashville
Toronto?
Buffalo is openly said their against this.
Would other "non traditional Cities vote no?" FLA, TB, CAR, ATL etc
Would either LA team like further travel for a new divisional foe?

I really don't think their is a 2/3rds majority here to even grant this in the first place?
Let's not kid ourselves, if this ever gets to a vote by the NHL BOG, then The Yotes will stay where they are. The real question is whether or not the courts settle this issue the other way and ram it down the NHL's throats.

I thought yesterday that it was unlikely that JB would be sucessful in his bid but after listening to an interview with of a bankrupcy lawyer yesterday, that JB has a much better shot at getting his way then I had originally envisioned.

I feel for the Yotes fans, but unless the NHL is successful in getting this thrown out of the bankrupcy courts, the courts might indeed go the direction of JB and the NHL might not have much choice.

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Old
05-07-2009, 10:28 AM
  #67
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BINGO: It's room # 703 the Hon. REDFIELD T. BAUM presiding.

Their are quite a few motions to be covered today. Including a request to terminate the lease with the City

http://www.azb.uscourts.gov/wCal.aspx

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05-07-2009, 10:29 AM
  #68
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After reading quite a bit of write-ups, articles, comments etc... A common scenario always being mentioned is that the court will make a decision, so that the creditors will be paid. Meaning, to the full benefit of the creditors.

Which for now, majority of the experts are saying the JB deal is best........

Here's my take...Best in terms of who / what? The way I see it, is that it's best for anyone but the CITY OF GLENDALE. So, in true definition, it is NOT the best. The court should really consider Glendale, and its tax payers, a 'secured creditor', even though they are not 'officially' considered as such - (per the Bankrupcy statement). They should consider how much tax payers, (not just the fans), has shelled out money (180mil) for the arena.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefully I can make it to the hearing. Depends on work.

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05-07-2009, 11:13 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by kombayn View Post
If Reinsdorf saves the team, he has to re-name this team the Arizona Coyotes, it boggles my mind they still call them the Phoenix Coyotes. If they cannot save this team, I say for the good of the NHL, move them to Southern Ontario and let them become the Ontario Jets.
Actually? I wouldn't mind Reinsdorf renaming the team if he buys it. The image of the franchise has to change even if it stays here and I think the Coyotes brand has been pretty effectively emasculated by now.

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05-07-2009, 11:16 AM
  #70
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Actually? I wouldn't mind Reinsdorf renaming the team if he buys it. The image of the franchise has to change even if it stays here and I think the Coyotes brand has been pretty effectively emasculated by now.
As long as the team stays here, call them the Mighty Javelinas for all I care.

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05-07-2009, 11:18 AM
  #71
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Let's not kid ourselves, if this ever gets to a vote by the NHL BOG, then The Yotes will stay where they are. The real question is whether or not the courts settle this issue the other way and ram it down the NHL's throats.
The BoG would be insane to vote for Balsillie. Salary cap, nationalism, revenue sharing, hockey in the desert, NHLPA, etc. aside, what it does is set a precedent for some ultra-rich shark accomplishing a hostile takeover of an NHL franchise with the BoG powerless to stop it. The Coyotes are only the ripest target in the bunch - if legal precedent is established, no franchise (at least American ones) is safe. My opinion, anyway.

Balsillie is effectively optioning control over the process that he isn't entitled to - at least that's how an NHL governor should look at it.

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05-07-2009, 11:20 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
BINGO: It's room # 703 the Hon. REDFIELD T. BAUM presiding.

Their are quite a few motions to be covered today. Including a request to terminate the lease with the City

http://www.azb.uscourts.gov/wCal.aspx
Can someone set up a Twitter account and keep us updated from the proceedings? Heck, maybe we should just establish a SaveTheYotes Twitter for general purposes of getting the latest aggregated news out to interested parties.

I'd do it myself if I were going to court today but I'm onsite with a client all day...

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05-07-2009, 11:20 AM
  #73
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I can't believe this is happening to my favorite hockey team a second time. As my avatar makes clear, this is not my first rodeo on this issue. Have I really chosen to live in the only two U.S. cities that cannot support an NHL team? Hey Tampa Bay, hope I don't move to your city.

What surprises me the most is how little power it sounds as though the NHL has. I can't understand why the NHL clubs' operating agreement would permit a club's owner to enter a contract to sell the club without league approval or to file a bankruptcy petition without league approval. Maybe the anti-trust lawyers would tell me you can't do stuff like that, but it's surprising to me. Maybe the league does have such powers, and we'll hear about them. All I've heard about so far is the power to deny the club the right to move. I assume that all will get litigated in due course, but I'm really surprised that it can get that far.

I also would think that the league should have power, even today, to take over a club, which they could I presume do and then withdraw the bankruptcy petition. But I guess they don't have that power either.

I hear these reports that the league somehow obtained a veto on a bankruptcy filing as a condition of the loans it made. If true, I would think the court would have to take that issue up first and resolve that dispute. I guess this seems unlikely to me, and possibly a stretch. It would be nice to see the documents, but typically with a loan you can take a security interest or something, but I don't think it's that common for a loan to actually come with a condition that a managing member of a company is dethroned. Hard to believe that Moyes' lawyers would miss this and represent on the petition that he is the managing member when he really is not. I would think the court would not be happy about a lawyer making that kind of misrepresentation.

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05-07-2009, 11:28 AM
  #74
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Ok so I discussed the matter with my mom last night (who is a paralegal that has worked on numerous bankruptcy cases, including Chapter 11 filings) and here's the cliff notes of our conversation:

-The meeting today is not a hearing but a "creditor meeting" with the judge. Creditors show up in court and verify that they are creditors. The creditors can be found in the Chapter 11 petition filed by Moyes. A hearing won't be set for months.

-Moyes' lawyer (Scalerno I believe) is good, very good. My mom knows of him as the best bankruptcy lawyer in the state, if not the entire country. If he is taking on the case, then the NHL is in for a tough fight.

-The date set by JB and Moyes for a June 30, 2009, settlement date is laughable. This will play out for months and months. If they win, a team wouldn't be in place for a year, if not more. This is just the beginning. They still have to set a 341 hearing before even going to court. This may all end up in a civil court too, depending on how it plays out.

-The reason there are two case numbers and judges (as stated by a previous poster) is because Moyes filed Chapter 11 for two companies: Coyotes Hockey LLC and Coyotes Holdings LLC.

-She was not sure why he filed for Chapter 11 in the first place either. Filing Chapter 11 means that the manager of the asset(s) is going to continue operations, but if he sells the team (his only asset) then Chapter 11 does not make sense. It would have made more sense to file a Chapter 7, meaning that Moyes is liquidating assets (selling the team) and getting out of business. Very confusing.

-We are lucky that we got the two judges we did. One judge (can't remember the name off hand) is extremely tough to deal with.

-All bankruptcy cases are open to the public. However, the judge may, at his or her own discretion, close it off to only members of the parties involved.

That's about allI can remember at this point. If there are any questions, I can speak to her again and get back to you as soon as I can. At this point though, there are a lot of factors that need to play out. First and foremost, the June 30th date will simply not happen. When I told her the date of the filing and the date that Moyes wanted, she laughed out loud. So this play out way beyond summer.

I'm also questioning JB's motives for moving a team to SO. He has done this to 3 teams (Pitts, Nashville, and called Buffalo this year to ask if he could buy and then move the team) in the last 4 years. Why is he pulling the same stunt over and over again? It seems like a con. Why Hamilton exactly? It's located in the heart of where 3 other NHL clubs play (Detroit, Toronto, and Buffalo). I'm really starting to question this guy's motives for moving a team and I think the NHL need to look at that too.

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Old
05-07-2009, 11:32 AM
  #75
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Here's my take...Best in terms of who / what? The way I see it, is that it's best for anyone but the CITY OF GLENDALE. So, in true definition, it is NOT the best. The court should really consider Glendale, and its tax payers, a 'secured creditor', even though they are not 'officially' considered as such - (per the Bankrupcy statement). They should consider how much tax payers, (not just the fans), has shelled out money (180mil) for the arena.
There are no guarantees until the judge rules, but I would expect the city of Glendale has a better chance of getting some sympathy and consideration from a local bankruptcy court judge than foreign media or even the Ninth Circuit Bankruptcy Appellate Panel in Pasadena.

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