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Old
05-19-2009, 08:30 PM
  #976
SuperDave21
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Could someone please provide a cliffnotes version (without bias please) of the events in court today? Thanks!

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05-19-2009, 08:34 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
Could someone please provide a cliffnotes version (without bias please) of the events in court today? Thanks!
The judge is dragging his feet, hoping to make this take as long as possible, so he doesn't actually have to make any decisions. At least that's the way I see it.

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Old
05-19-2009, 08:36 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
From our very own Kasher's twits.
Hmmm ok. It just seems odd that many of these things were not mentioned in other "tweets." That's the first time I've used that word...where's that suicide emoticon when you need it?

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05-19-2009, 08:38 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
The judge is dragging his feet, hoping to make this take as long as possible, so he doesn't actually have to make any decisions. At least that's the way I see it.
A big help as always rt!

The only reason I ask is so I can present them to my mom for a quick glance and see what she says. Again, she's a paralegal so she should know how this will end up and/or what it all means.

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05-19-2009, 08:41 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
A big help as always rt!

The only reason I ask is so I can present them to my mom for a quick glance and see what she says. Again, she's a paralegal so she should know how this will end up and/or what it all means.
HAHA. Well, I believe our very own Jake16 is an attorney, himself, and I'm not so sure that he's so sure about this mess.

Anyway, I liked Kasher's twits, tweets, twats, whatever the best. His twitter(?) page is probably the best place for cliff's.

EDIT: Wow, I guess there are SOME things that slide under the filter.

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05-19-2009, 08:55 PM
  #981
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HAHA. Well, I believe our very own Jake16 is an attorney, himself, and I'm not so sure that he's so sure about this mess.
You may also look at gscarpenter2002's commentary in the Ballsillie/Phoenix thread on the BoH board.

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:01 PM
  #982
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Hmmm ok. It just seems odd that many of these things were not mentioned in other "tweets." That's the first time I've used that word...where's that suicide emoticon when you need it?
kash2112 was by the far the best and most complete. kudos to him.

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:03 PM
  #983
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Here is the link to the twitter

twitter.com/kash2112

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:05 PM
  #984
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kash2112 was by the far the best and most complete. kudos to him.
Yup. And hopefully it will be soon supplemented by mouser's first hand report.

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05-19-2009, 09:10 PM
  #985
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Yup. And hopefully it will be soon supplemented by mouser's first hand report.
Mouser's firsthand report from the original hearing was by far the best, I'm also looking forward.

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:49 PM
  #986
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Kash2112 = me. (I tried to register as artvandelay, but it was already taken.)

I was there with Mouser today. Sorry for those who don't believe what I posted, but I spent the entire 4 hours typing everything I could without translating, embellishing or adding my own commentary.

A few notes from me:

I didn't have any issues with the judge. He mentioned a few times about how high profile this case is becoming. I don't think he wants to make any hasty decisions that set a big precedent and lead to imediate appeals. What happens here could affect all the sports leagues in the US. (not sure how it impacts Canada)

Going into today, I thought the NHL was going to try to sell the team outside of bankruptcy. It looks like they are ok with bankruptcy, but want to control it. Whether Moyes has control or the NHL does, it looks like there will be an auction for the team.

As things progressed, it seemed like the whole control issue was going to be moot point. The relocation factor is going to be the big decision here and the judge touched on that.

The judge ordered mediation, not binding arbitration. The two side are going to meet and report back to the judge on May 27. I think he chose the mediation route because the NHL mentioned a few times that they would be happy to go to trial on the control issue and present evidence and witness. The judge is hoping to avoid that.

Oral arguments will be presented to the judge on the relocation issue on June 22. He would probably rule soon after. The impression I get from his comments and some of the other cases he quoted are that he's not sure he has standing to force the relocation of the team. As a Coyote fan, this gives me the biggest hope of keeping the team at least for the time being.

Glendale got their say so today. They are making a case for them being a creditor. Moyes attorney somewhat acknowledged their claim, but talked about a cap on the damages.

I'm not saying this because I'm a Coyote fan, but the PSE attorneys are out of their mind. They are trying to take advangtage of a US Bankruptcy court to get the sweetest deal in sports. According to them anything they perceive as a hindrance to their move and success should be banned by the judge. They talked about not getting a good TV contract, having to pay rights fees to Toronto and any attempts by the NHL to prevent relocation. The judge mentioned several times that he doesn't think he has that type of authority.

Most importantly, the Taylor Swift concert can proceed.

All in all, I'm happy I attended. It was pretty interesting. I can't attend the May 27 proceedings, so I hope someone else can provide updates.

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05-19-2009, 10:26 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
There are three things Kansas City has to offer that Phoenix does not, less competition in the market place, cold weather and a clean slate. Granted most cities have that same advantage.

btw...I wonder how St. Louis would feel about a hockey team moving into Kansas City, they are not very far apart!
Kansas City and St. Louis are about 240 miles apart. I think the territorial rights are 50 miles IIRC.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:12 PM
  #988
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At least he's a hockey fan. Too bad he'd be one of the least wealthy owners in the NHL.
If this is for real its great news. A live bid to keep the team in AZ will end up with the team at a decent price.

I was at the hearing today. While I certainly though the proxy interpreation issue was far less complex than the Judge made it, the Judge has some real issues with the "what asset does moyes own to sell" issue and also whether there is a bona fide legal dispute on the antitrust issues given that unlike the Raiders case, Balsilie/PSe doe not own the asset yet.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:19 PM
  #989
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What Delay industries.. nice job.. Wish I was following you during the court preceedings!

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:26 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Tbone54 View Post
Spec44: "The lawyer for the City of Glendale just admitted that he HAS NEVER BEEN TO A COYOTES GAME. Unbelievable... "

wow....
He does not live in AZ. He's from out of state.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:34 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by bcrt2000 View Post
Anyone in Phoenix should not be happy at today's results. Whether or not Balsillie wins the relocation motion, it looks like the judge is siding on Moyes side in terms of his right to auction the team. Once that goes through *anyone* can buy the team and ask the judge to break the lease so that they can renegotiate more favourable terms. Any renegotiation with Glendale would likely include a much shorter term on the lease, thereby opening the possibility of relocation to Las Vegas or KC down the road when the NHL will be ready to discuss relocation. The one reason why the NHL cannot consider relocation at all at this point is because it would tarnish their reputation among arena management groups around North America, but if the lease were broken through no fault of their own, they would have no reason to block a move down the road.
That is not accurate. I was in the courtroom. The judge will hear the motion and decide what actual asset is being auctioned first ie does Moyes own a team in AZ to sell or does he own a team that can be put anywhere. On that the judge was skeptical of Moyes' chances, but will hear the motion after further briefing.

Moyes' laywer wanted the auction to happen at the same time as the briefing defining teh asset being sold. The NHL lawyers said that makes no sense, we need to know what asset is actually being sold first - how else does someone know what they are bidding on. Judge agreed with NHL and will decide that issue first. Then bids will be taken once everyone knows what is being bid on.

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05-19-2009, 11:39 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
From the kash2112 twitter feed ( http://twitter.com/kash2112 ):


# Glendale says they will have a $500 million claim and become a creditor if the team is moved,about 3 hours ago from txt
Huh... alright, I stand corrected. Thx for the info!

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:43 PM
  #993
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Good article on ESPN.com. (Although it was written by AP)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4180789

Quote:
The NHL initially had wanted the case thrown out on the grounds that Moyes didn't have authority to file for bankruptcy. But after the hearing, Daly said the league was willing to go through with the sale through auction in bankruptcy court.
Daly confirms what I was sensing in the courtroom. The league is no longer pushing the question of whether Moyes had the right to file bankruptcy and they are now placing their bets on the judge upholding their right to approve relocation.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:46 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
HAHA. Well, I believe our very own Jake16 is an attorney, himself, and I'm not so sure that he's so sure about this mess.

Anyway, I liked Kasher's twits, tweets, twats, whatever the best. His twitter(?) page is probably the best place for cliff's.

EDIT: Wow, I guess there are SOME things that slide under the filter.
I, along with Carpenter (who I've discussed this with) thought the proxy interpretation issue was far clearer than the Judge saw it. I think what troubled him at the hearing was that he saw the NHL's exercise of control a little inconsistent in practice - sometimes they let Moyes do things in terms of managing the team and signing documents. At the end of the day, he asked the lawyers for both sides what legal standard the issue had to be decided under. All agreed that it would be the same as for a summary judgment motion - i.e. to win there have to be no issues of material fact in dispute and one party wins as matter of law. The Judge clearly saw alot of he said/she said in the Declarations/Affidavits filed by Moyes' witnesses (Shumway, Scudder, Strait, Moyes) and the NHL's witnesses (Bettman/Daly). Fact disputes (i.e. like a he said / she said dispute) always prevent summary judgment. Hence, the court rather than getting into a "messy" and "ugly" evidentiary hearing / mini trial to decide which side's witnesses were telling the truth and more accurate and credible, decided to send the parties to mediation to try to resolve the proxy/control issue on their own. Barring an agreement at the mediation, the Judge said he would decide the issue, but likely after an evidentiary hearing (like a mini-trial) where Bettman, Daly, Shumway, Moyes, Scudder etc. would all have to testify. That everyone agreed would be ugly and embarrassing as both sides essentially were calling each other liars. No jury in US Bankrupcy court - judge would weigh testimony and decide who was most credible.

Ordering mediation was Judge way of telling the parties not to waste time on this issue which will be embarassing and time consuming for both parties but to get to the real issue of selling the asset and getting $ for the debtors.

The big issue to be decided now (while the mediation attempt to resolve the control issue privately) is what asset Moyes actually has to sell.

I (like the NHL) thought the proxy language was clear enough to rule in the NHL's favor as a matter of law.


Last edited by Jake16: 05-19-2009 at 11:58 PM.
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Old
05-19-2009, 11:48 PM
  #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
Kash2112 = me. (I tried to register as artvandelay, but it was already taken.)

I was there with Mouser today. Sorry for those who don't believe what I posted, but I spent the entire 4 hours typing everything I could without translating, embellishing or adding my own commentary.

A few notes from me:

I didn't have any issues with the judge. He mentioned a few times about how high profile this case is becoming. I don't think he wants to make any hasty decisions that set a big precedent and lead to imediate appeals. What happens here could affect all the sports leagues in the US. (not sure how it impacts Canada)

Going into today, I thought the NHL was going to try to sell the team outside of bankruptcy. It looks like they are ok with bankruptcy, but want to control it. Whether Moyes has control or the NHL does, it looks like there will be an auction for the team.

As things progressed, it seemed like the whole control issue was going to be moot point. The relocation factor is going to be the big decision here and the judge touched on that.

The judge ordered mediation, not binding arbitration. The two side are going to meet and report back to the judge on May 27. I think he chose the mediation route because the NHL mentioned a few times that they would be happy to go to trial on the control issue and present evidence and witness. The judge is hoping to avoid that.

Oral arguments will be presented to the judge on the relocation issue on June 22. He would probably rule soon after. The impression I get from his comments and some of the other cases he quoted are that he's not sure he has standing to force the relocation of the team. As a Coyote fan, this gives me the biggest hope of keeping the team at least for the time being.

Glendale got their say so today. They are making a case for them being a creditor. Moyes attorney somewhat acknowledged their claim, but talked about a cap on the damages.

I'm not saying this because I'm a Coyote fan, but the PSE attorneys are out of their mind. They are trying to take advangtage of a US Bankruptcy court to get the sweetest deal in sports. According to them anything they perceive as a hindrance to their move and success should be banned by the judge. They talked about not getting a good TV contract, having to pay rights fees to Toronto and any attempts by the NHL to prevent relocation. The judge mentioned several times that he doesn't think he has that type of authority.

Most importantly, the Taylor Swift concert can proceed.

All in all, I'm happy I attended. It was pretty interesting. I can't attend the May 27 proceedings, so I hope someone else can provide updates.
Hell of a job! Thanks from all of us!

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:48 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
Good article on ESPN.com. (Although it was written by AP)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4180789



Daly confirms what I was sensing in the courtroom. The league is no longer pushing the question of whether Moyes had the right to file bankruptcy and they are now placing their bets on the judge upholding their right to approve relocation.
Thant makes a lot of sense. It'll be a lot easier to sell the team for cheap via bankruptcy. Less pressure from creditors, no contracts, fresh start... It also removes a lot of responsibility from the NHL.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:53 PM
  #997
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Thant makes a lot of sense. It'll be a lot easier to sell the team for cheap via bankruptcy. Less pressure from creditors, no contracts, fresh start... It also removes a lot of responsibility from the NHL.
It also means that they'll give Moyes his share of the proceeds for his unsecured debt and he'll be gone for good. I read a quote from Moyes a week or two back where he said something about him maybe retaining some ownership. At this point, the sooner he is gone the better.

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Old
05-20-2009, 12:00 AM
  #998
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
It also means that they'll give Moyes his share of the proceeds for his unsecured debt and he'll be gone for good. I read a quote from Moyes a week or two back where he said something about him maybe retaining some ownership. At this point, the sooner he is gone the better.
Art, I don't think that's quite accurate. The NHL will continue to push their argument of control in the mediation. See my post about 4 posts above addresssing this.

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Old
05-20-2009, 12:10 AM
  #999
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Thread continued here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=644055

(still putting my summary together, will post shortly)

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