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Coyotes Financial/Ownership Situation #3

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05-07-2009, 11:58 AM
  #101
Brodie
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
I understand that, but that doesn't seem to be his true motive. He just wants a team in Hamilton because he's such a big hockey fan? BS. I don't buy that for a second. He's the CEO of a multibillion dollar corporation and believes that he'll make a ton of money in sports franchise ownership? The WSJ just put out an article stating that owning a sports franchise does not usually equal a successful business investment. Being a businessman, why would this guy want to put a team only in SO. It can't be to make money because he already has enough money. Again, something doesn't seem right here. He's played the same con 3 times and has been shut down every time, but he still continues to pursue franchise ownership. I'm asking, why? It makes no sense to me. He has to have an ulterior motive for all of this. If I were the people of Hamilton, I would be highly skeptical of this character.
I think you're reading way too much into this.

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05-07-2009, 12:00 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
Look no offense to our team, but we're not good. We just aren't. Moving us to the Canadian air in Hamilton won't make us any better. So in essence, JB wants to place a bad team in Canada because...? And that's where I get stuck. He wanted to the Pens there, who were bad at the time, and the Preds there, who are also bad at the time, and now us? Why is only targeting bad teams to move to Hamilton? The people of Hamilton don't want to see bad hockey. Why would they when they have the choice of seeing great teams like Detroit, Toronto, and Buffalo? Does this make any sense at all to anyone? Please tell me that someone is at least seeing what I'm seeing. If the Hamilton team is bad (and with our team and coach, it's a given) why would the people of Hamilton pay money to see them when they can pay to see better teams? Just because they are there? That makes no logical sense in the least.
Did you say Toronto is a great team? That's funny. We have seen bad hockey in this region for the last 30 years at least, the leafs have sucked since the 80's for the exception of a few decent years in the early 90's.

We have all seen enough bad hockey in our area that we could probably tolerate another bad one that at least has some exciting young players with good upside. Even if the Coyotes stay in Phoenix it is inevtible they will end up being a pretty good team within the next 2-3 years once the young kids continue to mature and continue to gain the experience of playing in the NHL.

Good luck to the hardcore Coyotes fans who support the team but I just can't see these guys playing in the desert much longer. If it's not a move to Southern Ontario (Hamilton, Kitchener, TO) it will be a move to somewhere in the US (Vegas, KC, etc) or the team will go Chapter 7 and fold up shop. It's just not financially viable in Phoenix at this point and maybe it never was to begin with.

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05-07-2009, 12:01 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
Not necessarily. Bettman wanted to the expand the league through a different channel in a different market. For a business to grow, you have to expand. JB doesn't care about the NHL or growing the league. He just wants a team in SO for some unknown reason. I don't buy the fact that he wants to make more money. He has enough in a successful business already.
It would be nice if the Coyotes were an expansion team.

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05-07-2009, 12:02 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
Exactly! That's the problem with this whole thing.

Look no offense to our team, but we're not good. We just aren't. Moving us to the Canadian air in Hamilton won't make us any better. So in essence, JB wants to place a bad team in Canada because...? And that's where I get stuck. He wanted to the Pens there, who were bad at the time, and the Preds there, who are also bad at the time, and now us? Why is only targeting bad teams to move to Hamilton? The people of Hamilton don't want to see bad hockey. Why would they when they have the choice of seeing great teams like Detroit, Toronto, and Buffalo? Does this make any sense at all to anyone? Please tell me that someone is at least seeing what I'm seeing. If the Hamilton team is bad (and with our team and coach, it's a given) why would the people of Hamilton pay money to see them when they can pay to see better teams? Just because they are there? That makes no logical sense in the least.

I would LOVE for Canada to have another team, I'm all for it. Just not MY team or any other NHL franchise.
Pretty simple. It's easier to move a bad team that's having financial problems than a good team who are financially sound... and doing so helps the league in which he's investing in. He knows that even a bad team will be supported in Southern Ontario.

I don't get why you have trouble understanding his motive of owning a hockey team. JB loves hockey. He actually plays the game a few times a week -he takes it seriously. His wife is from Hamilton and he's from the area as well. He has the financial resources to buy a team to fulfill a dream of his in something that he loves. He also wants to invest in the city of Hamilton beyond hockey (hockey is just a piece of the puzzle). It's as simple as that. JB certainly isn't the first millionaire/billionaire who invests in something he/she loves and he won't be the last.

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Old
05-07-2009, 12:05 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
Yes, but to make a profit, you need to have a successful product. The Coyotes are not a proven asset that generates money, which is why we are in this mess. So I'll ask again: Why does JB want to buy a product that has proven to lose money? He's never been a sports franchise owner and doesn't understand how the game works. He's a fan who has a ton of money and a burr in his butt to own a team. That's a horrible excuse to own a franchise. That would be like if one of the posters on here suddenly came into bunch of money and then wanted to buy the team because "they could." That's a recipe for disaster.
I agree with you that he doesn't need the money and he likely isn't motivated by profit alone. However, surely he doesn't want to lose money and like all 'experts' envision, another hockey team in Southern Ontario would generate profits regardless of how it perform on the ice.

You're a local fan so I know your emotions are running high but if you put yourself in the shoes of an owner who lost a few hundred million, you would want to recover some of that asap even if you are villified by the existing fans in Glendale.

As for why owners own teams, I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons; who is to say which is decent and noble and which are not. I can't iamgine anyone watching hundreds of millions eroding away and be thinking it is okay, I'm going to keep it going as there are a few thousand who still enjoy the product.

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Old
05-07-2009, 12:08 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by kovacro View Post
If it's not a move to Southern Ontario (Hamilton, Kitchener, TO) it will be a move to somewhere in the US (Vegas, KC, etc) or the team will go Chapter 7 and fold up shop. It's just not financially viable in Phoenix at this point and maybe it never was to begin with.
If the Coyotes move to Kansas City or Las Vegas, the current troubles and attendance issues are going to look like child's play in comparison.

The only place where a team CAN be moved or expanded into in the current economic climate is Canada, and only in specific regions of the country at that. So if the Coyotes aren't going to be HERE in Phoenix, then they need to be in Canada. We're not such homers that we don't admit that.

Having said that, expecting us to meekly acquiesce to Hamiltonians' or Jim Balsillie's sense of entitlement is ludicrous.

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05-07-2009, 12:08 PM
  #107
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It bothers me to see so many people throwing out such hyperbolic terms for Balsillie like "scum" and "evil". The guy is trying to move a hockey team, get some perspective. He's done some amazing things with his money in Canada, built hospitals and think tanks, etc. He's not a bad person because he wants to move your hockey team away.

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05-07-2009, 12:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
It bothers me to see so many people throwing out such hyperbolic terms for Balsillie like "scum" and "evil". The guy is trying to move a hockey team, get some perspective. He's done some amazing things with his money in Canada, built hospitals and think tanks, etc. He's not a bad person because he wants to move your hockey team away.
Good for him. But even the greatest philanthropist can seem like a total d-bag if he takes a liquidy dump on your head, savvy?

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05-07-2009, 12:20 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
It bothers me to see so many people throwing out such hyperbolic terms for Balsillie like "scum" and "evil". The guy is trying to move a hockey team, get some perspective. He's done some amazing things with his money in Canada, built hospitals and think tanks, etc. He's not a bad person because he wants to move your hockey team away.
This is due to the fact that he is a repeat offender in the eyes of the league. He may be a great person in every other aspect of life, but when it comes to hockey he has a history of not playing well with others. The league and BoG has recognized this hence his reputation.

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Old
05-07-2009, 12:40 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Good for him. But even the greatest philanthropist can seem like a total d-bag if he takes a liquidy dump on your head, savvy?

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:04 PM
  #111
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Here's the real goods. A franchise in southern ontario is worth at least $250 million, so JB's offer at $212 million is a bargain. The catch is he's going through the back door to try to buy an NHL franchise. His motivation is that he will make big bucks.
The NHL and its owners know they can get more than $212 million for a southern Ontario franchise, so they don't need Balsille dictating terms to them.
Balsille is using free media preesure to trump his cause, including saying Gretsky will be a 10% shareholder when he hasn't even spoken to GTO, and TGO has said he will not move to Ontario for family reasons.
Let's get real-the Balsille deal is only good for Gerry Moyes and TGO, but it has no legs because it is CONDITIONAL on moving the team -which Balsille or Moyes have no power to do.

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:25 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
Balsille is using free media preesure to trump his cause, including saying Gretsky will be a 10% shareholder when he hasn't even spoken to GTO, and TGO has said he will not move to Ontario for family reasons.
Let's get real-the Balsille deal is only good for Gerry Moyes and TGO, but it has no legs because it is CONDITIONAL on moving the team -which Balsille or Moyes have no power to do.
I've read the papers. Two points: Gretzky would get over $22 million in the deal, $14 million of which would be conditioned on him being fired as coach. Second, the papers make a lengthy anti-trust argument and bankruptcy argument about why the court has authority to preclude the league (or, more specifically the Maple Leafs) from enforcing the no-movement-without-approval rule.

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:49 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
Here's the real goods. A franchise in southern ontario is worth at least $250 million, so JB's offer at $212 million is a bargain. The catch is he's going through the back door to try to buy an NHL franchise. His motivation is that he will make big bucks.
The NHL and its owners know they can get more than $212 million for a southern Ontario franchise, so they don't need Balsille dictating terms to them.
Balsille is using free media preesure to trump his cause, including saying Gretsky will be a 10% shareholder when he hasn't even spoken to GTO, and TGO has said he will not move to Ontario for family reasons.
Let's get real-the Balsille deal is only good for Gerry Moyes and TGO, but it has no legs because it is CONDITIONAL on moving the team -which Balsille or Moyes have no power to do.
Not only that--as a condition of approval the Purchase Agreement requires the Bankruptcy court to prohibit the NHL from collecting any other compensation such as Territorial Infringement payments to the Leafs.

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:54 PM
  #114
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http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/630339 Excellent article

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05-07-2009, 01:55 PM
  #115
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Don't rush to pull plug on Coyotes' desert days

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All these points are all dismissed or ignored by those who have drank deeply from Balsillie's Kool-Aid machine.

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:57 PM
  #116
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jinx

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05-07-2009, 02:00 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Good for him. But even the greatest philanthropist can seem like a total d-bag if he takes a liquidy dump on your head, savvy?
Agreed, Andrew Carnegie built hospitals and libraries but his business practices were reprehensible.

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Old
05-07-2009, 02:16 PM
  #118
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Anyway if it does go through, what does it matter that he's the first one to get paid? He's being paid back with his own money.
What I was getting at is say Mr. Ballsillie keeps the team running for 2 years because it may take that long to go through the courts. At the end of 2 years he may have put out 100 million. If Ballsillie loses which he may. Anyone wishing to buy the team will now have to pay him off plus the 80 million to the hedge fund plus 35 million to the NHL. Who would buy it for 215 million? Ballsillie would have the right to just take his collateral. Pay off the hedge fund and the NHL. He would now own the team. Moving it is another question but Al Davis has proved it can be done. I also think the owner of the defunct Hartford Whalers also just bought and moved a team to Hartford.

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05-07-2009, 02:35 PM
  #119
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Note the many links in The Star article, including a live twitter/blog that can be followed online. Also find here more in-depth filing documents.

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05-07-2009, 02:49 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Phogary Flayotes View Post
Love the choice of headshots. Balsillie looks like a freaking maniac about ready to eat Bettman's liver, whereas Bettman seems to be ready to kiss him french-style. Funny.

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05-07-2009, 02:54 PM
  #121
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Love the choice of headshots. Balsillie looks like a freaking maniac about ready to eat Bettman's liver, whereas Bettman seems to be ready to kiss him french-style. Funny.


Nicely done. They are both bat**** nuts.

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05-07-2009, 02:58 PM
  #122
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I would LOVE for Canada to have another team, I'm all for it. Just not MY team or any other NHL franchise.
No offense, but, that is a very ironic statement coming from a fan of the former Winnipeg Jets.

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05-07-2009, 03:00 PM
  #123
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No offense, but, that is a very ironic statement coming from a fan of the former Winnipeg Jets.
Thank you for your comment. You're the first one to bring up this very valid point. Keep'em coming!


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Old
05-07-2009, 03:01 PM
  #124
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No offense, but, that is a very ironic statement coming from a fan of the former Winnipeg Jets.
Why? Those of us that chose to follow our team (Jets) down to the desert know exactly how hard it is to do. Why would we wish that on anyone else?

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05-07-2009, 03:09 PM
  #125
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No offense, but, that is a very ironic statement coming from a fan of the former Winnipeg Jets.
Two wrongs don't make a right....the one thing I think the Jets fans were able to do that the Coyotes fans won't (if this goes through this summer) is say goodbye!

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