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05-06-2009, 04:11 PM
  #1
sdbullet
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Pavol Demitra

Does anybody know if Demitra's contract is guaranteed for next year or does it carry a player/team option, if it does I do not really see him as a good fit for this team come next year?

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05-06-2009, 04:15 PM
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cbjerrisgaard
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It was a two year contract.

So we would have to buy him out at the cost of 1 million a year over the next two years (half *total salary spread out over twice the length of the remainder of the contract). That said buying out a 50 point ish player is sorta stupid.

You may not love his game but he contributes and isnt INSANELY over paid. Just over paid, as most UFA signings tend to be.

*Edit: I mean yearly not total.

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05-06-2009, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbullet View Post
Does anybody know if Demitra's contract is guaranteed for next year or does it carry a player/team option, if it does I do not really see him as a good fit for this team come next year?
It's guaranteed for next year. I don't think player/team options are allowed in the new CBA.

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05-06-2009, 04:20 PM
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there are no player/team options in contracts.

Demitra has a guaranteed contract for next year.

IMO people are being a bit hard on the guy recently... he has not played that well recently, and has probably been playing hurt... but let's evaluate him for what he is - through his full season, and he's hardly a player that we need to worry about it.

He's making $4mill, and is a decent secondary scorer who still put up 20 goals and over 50 pts despite missing time, which we know he will... he's versatile enough that he can play in any of the 3 forward positions as well.

At his salary and contract (just 1 more year left) and for the type of production he brings, he's not a problem on this team... he also seems to have a good attitude and isn't a locker room problem. I don't see the problem at all having him back for one more year - he can basically plug in, in whichever spot there's a hole anywhere in the top 9. And depth is never a bad thing, especially when you have young untested players and those still early in their overall development (Hodgson, Grabner, Raymond)... if *everything* falls together perfectly next year and he isn't needed (which IMO is not likely to happen), then he becomes a trade asset at the deadline.

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05-06-2009, 04:20 PM
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cbjerrisgaard
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Originally Posted by sdbullet View Post
I know it was a 2 year deal, but I was curious if year two as a player/team option
I guess for the sake of keeping it simple I should have just said that there is no player / team option

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05-06-2009, 04:33 PM
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DL44
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I like Demitra on this team...
The guy is versatile and has skills, but struggles when he has to play hurt which is more often than we like.

But when he's on, his shot and playmaking is still awesome. He's not a physical player, and is not a Burrows/Kesler hear & soul type.. but his contribution on the yr has been what i expected it to be.

He'll be valuable once again on the PP when he's healthy...
He's taking a lot of heat for not producing at 5-on-5 at the moment... rightfully so... but i also think it's a little over the top.

Looking forward to seeing Demitra next yr on a PP line with Hodgson and Kesler.

We have him for another year... you people might as well get your expectations to a reasonable level or we'll be burdened with a full yr of Naslund-like threads for the next 12 months. painful and redundant.

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05-06-2009, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
there are no player/team options in contracts.

Demitra has a guaranteed contract for next year.

IMO people are being a bit hard on the guy recently... he has not played that well recently, and has probably been playing hurt... but let's evaluate him for what he is - through his full season, and he's hardly a player that we need to worry about it.

He's making $4mill, and is a decent secondary scorer who still put up 20 goals and over 50 pts despite missing time, which we know he will... he's versatile enough that he can play in any of the 3 forward positions as well.

At his salary and contract (just 1 more year left) and for the type of production he brings, he's not a problem on this team... he also seems to have a good attitude and isn't a locker room problem. I don't see the problem at all having him back for one more year - he can basically plug in, in whichever spot there's a hole anywhere in the top 9. And depth is never a bad thing, especially when you have young untested players and those still early in their overall development (Hodgson, Grabner, Raymond)... if *everything* falls together perfectly next year and he isn't needed (which IMO is not likely to happen), then he becomes a trade asset at the deadline.
I totally agree with all of this. I think what people tend to do is compare the Demitra situation to the other steals that Gillis acquired such as Wellwood, Bernier, and of course there's the Burrows signing. Those are guys who have played above and beyond the value of their contracts while Demitra has basically done what was expected given his contract. In comparison, Demitra looks like he's underachieving when he's actually playing at the expected level.

I don't really have a problem with Demitra's contract nor do I mind him on the team next year. He can be relied upon for solid secondary scoring and like NFiTO mentioned, he's versatile, which is also an asset. That said, the fact he hasn't played outstanding and with all the young talent waiting in the system means he's really not needed when his contract is up. My take on him is he's here to provide the necessary secondary scoring during the 2 year window for the Stanley Cup that Mike Gillis has in place.

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05-06-2009, 05:02 PM
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Jeez, cut Demo a break. He put up 20 goals and 50+ points this year while missing 13 games. He's a good team guy, a good skill guy who draws other teams' defensive players to help create more offense for the other players around him. Having a legitimate name like Demitra in the top-six has helped the Twins this year, make no mistake.

I haven't found his play in the playoffs to be terrible either. I thought he was hustling well, and was warming up to the physical aspect of the game which ended up being a bad thing because now he's hurt. But he was far from the worst player on the ice in any game in the playoffs thus far, and I think people really undervalue him to the team. He has made some very nice plays that lead to goals for us.

~Canucklehead~

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05-06-2009, 05:09 PM
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$4 million for 50+ points is hardly overpaid.

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05-06-2009, 05:17 PM
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Uh guys, how about setting aside all your fancy stats and reasoning, and remind yourselves that Demitra sucks because some dude on the radio said so. I mean come on, sure he puts up points, but he bailed out on that hit in Game 1! We should buy him out.

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05-06-2009, 05:30 PM
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People need to get the idea that 2nd liners score 70+ points out of their heads. They don't, and 53 points for a 2nd liner (especially given the time he missed) is good production. In fact, other than Detroit and San Jose, I'm not aware of any Western Conference teams that got as good production out of a 2nd liner as the Canucks did with Demitra.


Just as a benchmark, here are some players that were within .05 points per game of Demitra this season:

Tanguay
Kopitar
Stasny
Dumont
Lang
Koivu
Smyth
Huselius
Gomez
Jokinen
Gionta
Sharp
Hejduk
Ryder


The vast majority of those guys make the same salary or more than Demitra, so I really don't get the notion that he's overpaid, especially given that he only has 1 year left on his deal. It's pretty obvious that he was just a temporary stop gap and I'm sure even he realizes that. He's a good team guy, isn't a liability defensively, and can play all three forward positions interchangeably. Other than his penchant for injury and his lack of grit, there's really not too much wrong with his game.

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05-06-2009, 05:30 PM
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He scored 16 goals. He had 4 empty net goals, the rest of the team had a combined 4 empty net goals.

4 empty net goals and 1 game winning goal which came in game 2 of the season.

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05-06-2009, 05:32 PM
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trbr86
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I think Demitra is a solid contributor when he is healthy, but I would have no second thoughts about trading, buying out his contract, or burying it in the minors if the cap space is the difference between signing star players like the Sedins and/or Jay Bouwmeester this off-season.

Vancouver has young talent coming up (Raymond, Bernier, Wellwood, Grabner, and Hodgson) that ought to provide production as good as Demitra, each at half the price at least.

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05-06-2009, 05:33 PM
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What's with all the Demitra hate recently? Last I check he hasn't cost the team any wins and is decent on defense.

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05-06-2009, 05:42 PM
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Demitra gets way too hard of a rap on these boards. If you think Demitra is bad, look at what Naslund did for 4 million, look what Ryan Malone did for what, 5 million?

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05-06-2009, 05:48 PM
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19nazzy
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Originally Posted by SelKesler View Post
Demitra gets way too hard of a rap on these boards. If you think Demitra is bad, look at what Naslund did for 4 million.
Yeah, he scored more goals. With 0 empty net goals padding his stats.

Only Ovechkin had more ENGs and that was 1 more. Demitra was okay, but he didn't have a great season. Pretty sure most of us expected more. Luckily Burrows and Kesler stepped up and were better than what Sundin and Demitra turned out to be.

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05-06-2009, 05:56 PM
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DL44
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People also forget how much of an upgrade he was on Naslund in the lineup this yr...
The playmaking alone... and then add the versatility, speed, faceoffs, defensive capability...
Even the shot... as sad as it is to say considering how great naslund's shot used to be, but Demitra's shot is better...

Having said that, i know it's not a Naslund vs Demitra thread, but it was stated to give a little perspective...

Naslund was grittier, tougher, more physical tho.

Demitra will continue to put up points and work a PP next yr.... just keep expectations in check.

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05-06-2009, 05:59 PM
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Some people on this board seems to go a bit rough on older players (Demitra, Sundin, Ohlund, not to mention players who are not on the team now).

Some times I venture to think that it is some kind of urge, from some posters, to be the first to predict the "down fall" of the player. A down fall which will come sooner or later as it is in the human nature that we grow older. With this said, Demitra is still a good player, be glad that we have him.

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05-06-2009, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trbr86 View Post
I think Demitra is a solid contributor when he is healthy, but I would have no second thoughts about trading, buying out his contract, or burying it in the minors if the cap space is the difference between signing star players like the Sedins and/or Jay Bouwmeester this off-season.

Vancouver has young talent coming up (Raymond, Bernier, Wellwood, Grabner, and Hodgson) that ought to provide production as good as Demitra, each at half the price at least.
Yeah, this I agree with. A buyout doesn't make much sense because you''re stuck with a cap hit of 1/3rd of his salary per year over two years which means that you're basically adding $1.33 million/year over the next two years to the player you are replacing Demitra with (i.e. you either pay Demitra $4 million next year and Grabner $850k the next year or you pay ~$2.1 million/year for two years of Grabner replacing Demitra), but if keeping him around means you have to give up the opportunity to bring in a long term asset for the team I think you have to consider letting him go if possible. I don't think the player taking his spot will replace his production but you're going to get a large portion of it covered for a fraction of the price.

That said, Demitra's been good value for his contract. Only the Sedins and Burrows were more productive at even strength than Demitra, and the marked turnaround in Vancouver's even strength play this year is one of the prime reasons they improved so significantly from last year. He didn't spend much time playing on the first power play unit with the Sedins which lowered his PP scoring relative to years past.

If anything, I think Demitra shows how hard it is to get value out of players signed on the UFA market. Considering term and dollars, other than players that signed non-competitive deals (Selanne, Hossa), Demitra provided about as much value as any other UFA.

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05-06-2009, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trbr86 View Post
I think Demitra is a solid contributor when he is healthy, but I would have no second thoughts about trading, buying out his contract, or burying it in the minors if the cap space is the difference between signing star players like the Sedins and/or Jay Bouwmeester this off-season.

Vancouver has young talent coming up (Raymond, Bernier, Wellwood, Grabner, and Hodgson) that ought to provide production as good as Demitra, each at half the price at least.
Problem is if you have to move Demitra's contract to be able to sign Bouwmeester to a long term deal, then how do you afford Kesler next year? That's the problem with relying on kids to fill money positions, if they pan out soon they'll be needing that money.

So I guess what I'm saying is Demitra makes a great stopgap solution in our salary structure, giving the kids like Hodgson, Raymond, Grabner, etc time to develop, with his contract expiring right when we need the cap room for a Kesler raise. So you don't just Demitra's contract to make room for another player, someone else will need to be cut in the immediate future.

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05-06-2009, 11:36 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by 19nazzy View Post
He scored 16 goals. He had 4 empty net goals, the rest of the team had a combined 4 empty net goals.

4 empty net goals and 1 game winning goal which came in game 2 of the season.
EN goals guarantee a win...

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05-06-2009, 11:43 PM
  #22
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Demitra's playoff beard is bada$$.

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05-07-2009, 12:00 AM
  #23
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I don't have a problem with Demitra at his cap hit for next season. he's paid about fair market value for a 20 goal/50 point second liner. imo he came exactly as advertised.

but in the more immediate future, I'm not sure I want him rushing back into the line up against the Hawks. Raymond really perked up Kesler's game (maybe it wasn't Raymond that did it, but it sure looked that way) and I want him left on that line.

so do you put Demitra with Wellwood and Bernier? maybe. decent line on paper. But Pyatt seems to fit well with those two, and having a line with big bookends that is seeing the Hawks 2nd or 3rd d pairing allowed for some good puck possession.

maybe in Hordy's spot on the 4th line? Not sure AV would do that. It's pretty clear by now what he's looking for from the 4th line. if he wanted to change directions and put Hansen on that line as well, I'd be for it. But if AV wants to keep it a physical unit, Demitra doesn't fit.

what will probably happen is Demitra with Wellwood, Pyatt on the 4th, Hordy in the pressbox. But the way Game 3 went, I'm all for giving Demitra a little extra time off just to be sure.

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05-07-2009, 12:20 AM
  #24
Mudshark50
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EN goals guarantee a win...
Exactly. I can remember a couple of games this year where we could have used an empty netter and the frustration on this board when we didn't.

Also, scoring EN goals means he is the type of player you want on the ice with a one goal lead and a minute left.

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05-07-2009, 12:47 AM
  #25
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Quiet European players never get any respect.

Demitra is an excellent powerplay QB, and I honestly can't remember any defensive lapses from him for the whole year. He can also skate and he's a great passer. 50 points is awesome for a second line player, which should be defined as 20 goals or 40 assists or 50 points. Only first liners get 65+ points.

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