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The Need for Another Defenseman

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Old
05-09-2009, 04:45 PM
  #51
BernieParent
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Using the hypothetical of Briere waiving his NMC, I was wondering about Briere to Montreal for Hamrlik ($5.5 mil for 2 years). Hamrlik mentored Phaneuf in Calgary, he plays a physical but controlled game, and he's defensively reliable.

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05-09-2009, 09:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Using the hypothetical of Briere waiving his NMC, I was wondering about Briere to Montreal for Hamrlik ($5.5 mil for 2 years). Hamrlik mentored Phaneuf in Calgary, he plays a physical but controlled game, and he's defensively reliable.
I'd do a deal with those two guys as the base

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05-09-2009, 10:32 PM
  #53
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[QUOTE=BobbyClarkeFan16;19491326]
I'd take Beauchemin and I wouldn't hesitate on giving him Jeff Finger type money either. I'm sure the reason he's been so 'exposed' in Anaheim is because of the fact they have him doing everything and not just one thing. If he comes to Philadelphia, he doesn't need to be a power play quarterback. He just needs to be a shut down guy who has snarl to his game. So far, from what I've seen in the playoffs, Beauchemin has played well for Anaheim. The guy's a beast. As for Niedermeyer covering up his mistakes, Beauchemin has done the same for Niedermeyer and Pronger.

Beauchemin could be a solid player paired up with Coburn. If the Flyers could make some cap space to sign him and a guy like Zanon from free agency or trade for players like Jan Hejda or Matt Greene, the defense would be drastically improved.

Timonen-Parent
Coburn-Beauchemin
Sbisa-Hejda/Zanon/Greene

This would give them 4 players who can log 20+ minutes and take some of the workload off of Coburn (24+ minutes seemed to be a bit much. He played better when playing around 20-21 minutes).

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05-09-2009, 10:46 PM
  #54
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If Brent Burns became available, I would give up ALOT to get him. I beleive he is a great defenseman, who is still getting better.

We would have to dump salary somewhere- probably not to them. They would probably take Carle back, to help replace Burns..

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05-09-2009, 11:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
If Brent Burns became available, I would give up ALOT to get him. I beleive he is a great defenseman, who is still getting better.

We would have to dump salary somewhere- probably not to them. They would probably take Carle back, to help replace Burns..
assuming he's 100% from his concussion which he missed the last 1/3 of the year from

Lupul, Carle, 1st
for
Burns, Harding

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Old
05-09-2009, 11:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
assuming he's 100% from his concussion which he missed the last 1/3 of the year from

Lupul, Carle, 1st
for
Burns, Harding
I'd do that in a heartbeat.

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Old
05-10-2009, 03:33 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
assuming he's 100% from his concussion which he missed the last 1/3 of the year from

Lupul, Carle, 1st
for
Burns, Harding
I'd offer more than that. To me, if Burns is healthy, he's the sort of player for whom I'd give up JVR. It's no surprise that he's a member of the 2003 draft class.

Then again, if a package centering around Lupul could get it done, then by all means, do it. But, realistically, there's no way this is all that enticing to Minnesota. If you're trying to acquire some of Minnesota's best talent, you better be prepared to give up some of your own promising prospects.

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05-10-2009, 05:18 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
If you're trying to acquire some of Minnesota's best talent, you better be prepared to give up some of your own promising prospects.
Appreciated. Would you be willing to make a counter offer showing what you had in mind?

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05-10-2009, 05:26 AM
  #59
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Old
05-10-2009, 10:52 AM
  #60
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Getting Jbo needs to be this teams top priority. It makes way too much sense not to look into. The east is becoming all about the stars, and these are stars the flyers are going to be going up against for the next decade. Malkin/Crosby on Pit, Ovechkin on WSH, now Tavares on NYI, etc. They have done a decent job shutting down some of these guys in the post season, but not good enough. Adding a guy like Jbo would perfectly counter all of these offensive threats, and turn the flyers into the favorite.

With a top 4 of Timonen, Jbo, Parent, and Coburn...and a bottom 2 of sbisa and a hard hitting gritty FA dman...this team would have the best d in the league and be able to shut down anyone. It also takes a lot of pressure off the goalie situation.

Make it happen Homer. Philly should be an appealing team to Jay...they are a winning team, great reputation with how they treat their players, and most of the guys on the team are around his age. The cap issue isnt an issue, just shred off the guys you dont need (lupul, jones, carle). It just makes too much sense not to do it. If Jay doesnt wanna come here, fine...but i am going to be pissed if they dont sign him because they dont wanna hurt jone's feelings...

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05-10-2009, 11:22 AM
  #61
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Komisarek is the most overrated defenseman on the boards. Seriously, the guy hits and that's it. Even then, if he gets hit hard, he gets rattled easily and just isn't the same player.
Really? I thought Komie is one of the best stay home in the league.

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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'd take Beauchemin and I wouldn't hesitate on giving him Jeff Finger type money either. I'm sure the reason he's been so 'exposed' in Anaheim is because of the fact they have him doing everything and not just one thing. If he comes to Philadelphia, he doesn't need to be a power play quarterback. He just needs to be a shut down guy who has snarl to his game. So far, from what I've seen in the playoffs, Beauchemin has played well for Anaheim. The guy's a beast. As for Niedermeyer covering up his mistakes, Beauchemin has done the same for Niedermeyer and Pronger.
I disagree. With everything.

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Old
05-10-2009, 11:39 AM
  #62
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Really? I thought Komie is one of the best stay home in the league.

I disagree. With everything.
Montreal fans will disagree. He dropped off BIG TIME this year. It was as if he heard people talking about him being a big hitter, and great stay at home guy...so he tried too hard, and now he just goes for hits and takes himself horribly out of position.

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Old
05-10-2009, 11:57 AM
  #63
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I believe MTL fans when they say Komisarek droppd off....they'd call him the greatest if they thought he was at least decent.

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Old
05-10-2009, 12:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Getting Jbo needs to be this teams top priority. It makes way too much sense not to look into. The east is becoming all about the stars, and these are stars the flyers are going to be going up against for the next decade. Malkin/Crosby on Pit, Ovechkin on WSH, now Tavares on NYI, etc. They have done a decent job shutting down some of these guys in the post season, but not good enough. Adding a guy like Jbo would perfectly counter all of these offensive threats, and turn the flyers into the favorite.

With a top 4 of Timonen, Jbo, Parent, and Coburn...and a bottom 2 of sbisa and a hard hitting gritty FA dman...this team would have the best d in the league and be able to shut down anyone. It also takes a lot of pressure off the goalie situation.

Make it happen Homer. Philly should be an appealing team to Jay...they are a winning team, great reputation with how they treat their players, and most of the guys on the team are around his age. The cap issue isnt an issue, just shred off the guys you dont need (lupul, jones, carle). It just makes too much sense not to do it. If Jay doesnt wanna come here, fine...but i am going to be pissed if they dont sign him because they dont wanna hurt jone's feelings...
I'd love to have Bouwmeester... if there were no salary cap. We're going to have enough trouble as it is resigning our young players when they are due for raises, the last thing we need is another high priced contract. I mean if we somehow got rid of Briere's contract and replaced it with Bouwmeester's I'd be up for that, but we'd still need to cut salary. A lot would have to happen for us to be able to sign Jbo AND cut salary so that we are in a better cap situation than we are right now. If its possible then I'm all for it, but i also don't want to risk losing players like Giroux, Carter, JVR, or Coburn down the road.

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05-10-2009, 12:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Getting Jbo needs to be this teams top priority. It makes way too much sense not to look into. The east is becoming all about the stars, and these are stars the flyers are going to be going up against for the next decade. Malkin/Crosby on Pit, Ovechkin on WSH, now Tavares on NYI, etc. They have done a decent job shutting down some of these guys in the post season, but not good enough. Adding a guy like Jbo would perfectly counter all of these offensive threats, and turn the flyers into the favorite.

With a top 4 of Timonen, Jbo, Parent, and Coburn...and a bottom 2 of sbisa and a hard hitting gritty FA dman...this team would have the best d in the league and be able to shut down anyone. It also takes a lot of pressure off the goalie situation.

Make it happen Homer. Philly should be an appealing team to Jay...they are a winning team, great reputation with how they treat their players, and most of the guys on the team are around his age. The cap issue isnt an issue, just shred off the guys you dont need (lupul, jones, carle). It just makes too much sense not to do it. If Jay doesnt wanna come here, fine...but i am going to be pissed if they dont sign him because they dont wanna hurt jone's feelings...
Wrong, the cap is very much an issue. If not now, then in the future. If the Flyers blow their load on J-bo, who play goalie? Sure dumping Lupul, Carle, and Jones (without taking any salary back...good luck) would provide us with short term relief, but how do you plan on re-signing guys like Coburn, Carter, and Giroux, even if you let Gagne walk?

The money simply isn't there for another top end player. The Flyers have a solid core to build around (Richards, Carter, Giroux, Timonen, Coburn) and in my opinion there is no need to add to that core. What the Flyers need are solid role players and a new coach to bring all their talent into a cohesive unit.

Oh and when you say this league is becoming all about stars, tell that to the Hurricanes who after Staal seem to be a team comprised entirely of 2nd line players. Stars are the building blocks to be sure, but you can't just throw talent on the ice and assume they'll get it done like the Flyers have been doing. You need solid 3rd/4th liners and solid bottom pairing guys, and you need a coach that will motivate his players, keep them focused, and institute a system that better fits this team.

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Old
05-10-2009, 12:18 PM
  #66
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The problem I have with this thread is that the need for another defenseman is far inferior to the need for a goalie just based on the fact that we don't have one under contract next season. I'm not sure what this offseason has in store, but I do know the first major move made will be to sign or trade for a goalie and our options on defense will reflect what direction Homer decides to go in in terms of goaltending.

If he elects to give a payday to someone with a track record like Khabibulin or Biron, then obviously the most we'll be able to spend on a d-man (keeping in mind that A. we'll probably have to dump salary like Lupul and/or Carle and or/Jones and B. we are also looking ahead to the future with guys like Coburn, Sbisa, Carter, and Giroux all approaching free agency) is in the 3-4 million range.

If he decides to role the dice on someone like Anderson or Harding and back them up with a relatively inexpensive option (cheap vet like Conklin, another unproven quantity like Clemmonson), then yeah maybe someone like Kubina could be in play.

But until the goalie situation is figured out, there is really no point in speculating where this team will go defensively unless you are prepared to add a caveat saying who you think will be in goal next year (and for how much).

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05-10-2009, 01:24 PM
  #67
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Montreal fans will disagree. He dropped off BIG TIME this year. It was as if he heard people talking about him being a big hitter, and great stay at home guy...so he tried too hard, and now he just goes for hits and takes himself horribly out of position.
Habs fans love Komie and what he brings to the table.
Dropped? He had a average season. Thats all it was. The whole Habs team was average. He is not worth 6M, I would not give him 5M either. 4.5 a year a great contract for him.

I got it you think Beauchemin is somehow a better d-men. Laughable.

I do not want Beauchemin or Mantador. Thats not what this team needs. Go after Jay-Bo he is top 15 d-men in the league, trade Carle do not resign Knuble or move Lupul.

3 years from now Timonen is gone or resigned for much less.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 05-10-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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05-10-2009, 01:47 PM
  #68
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Habs fans love Komie and what he brings to the table.
Dropped? He had a average season. Thats all it was. The whole Habs team was average. He is not worth 6M, I would not give him 5M either. 4.5 a year a great contract for him.

I got it you think Beauchemin is somehow a better d-men. Laughable.

I do not want Beauchemin or Mantador. Thats not what this team needs. Go after Jay-Bo he is top 15 d-men in the league, trade Carle do not resign Knuble or move Lupul.

3 years from now Timonen is gone or resigned for much less.

I'd rather keep Carle and re-sign Knuble at $2 million per and eliminate Lupul and Jones.

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05-10-2009, 02:19 PM
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yes but 1. knuble is making i think 2.8 million now will he take a pay cut?
and 2. timmonen is killing this team. yes killing them, he is not worth 6.5 million, not at all. and he has like 6 years left on his contract!! yes hes a key player but not worth more than gagne richards or carter. btw i dont care really who we get ANYONE is better than Jones. ANYONE.

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05-10-2009, 02:50 PM
  #70
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yes but 1. knuble is making i think 2.8 million now will he take a pay cut?
and 2. timmonen is killing this team. yes killing them, he is not worth 6.5 million, not at all. and he has like 6 years left on his contract!! yes hes a key player but not worth more than gagne richards or carter. btw i dont care really who we get ANYONE is better than Jones. ANYONE.
Kimmo is definitely worth more then Gagne and you could argue for Richards and Carter. Kimmo is one of, maybe THE, most important Flyer/s. Without him this team would not be anywhere near even what it is now. He is our best defenseman and a top 20, possibly top 10 in the NHL. Defense is our biggest need, besides goaltending but thats another story. You wont find anyone better then him for around that price thats available.

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05-10-2009, 03:11 PM
  #71
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I'd rather keep Carle and re-sign Knuble at $2 million per and eliminate Lupul and Jones.
knuble needs to walk unless he wants league min. time to turn the page. no one is going to trade for jones, he sucks and needs more hip surgery.

holmgren created a cap mess. he overpaid for way to many players and made terrible signind last off season. who will want carle? carel is a bottom pairign dman making 3.5 mm for the next several years. that is flat out robbery

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05-10-2009, 04:01 PM
  #72
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Kubina
one of the dumbest players in the NHL...dont want him

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05-10-2009, 04:02 PM
  #73
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Kimmo is definitely worth more then Gagne and you could argue for Richards and Carter. Kimmo is one of, maybe THE, most important Flyer/s. Without him this team would not be anywhere near even what it is now. He is our best defenseman and a top 20, possibly top 10 in the NHL. Defense is our biggest need, besides goaltending but thats another story. You wont find anyone better then him for around that price thats available.
i agree 100% on Timonen

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05-10-2009, 04:04 PM
  #74
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knuble needs to walk unless he wants league min. time to turn the page. no one is going to trade for jones, he sucks and needs more hip surgery.

holmgren created a cap mess. he overpaid for way to many players and made terrible signind last off season. who will want carle? carel is a bottom pairign dman making 3.5 mm for the next several years. that is flat out robbery
he's also 25 years old, and had 42 points 2 years ago

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05-10-2009, 04:22 PM
  #75
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Habs fans love Komie and what he brings to the table.
Dropped? He had a average season. Thats all it was. The whole Habs team was average. He is not worth 6M, I would not give him 5M either. 4.5 a year a great contract for him.

I got it you think Beauchemin is somehow a better d-men. Laughable.

I do not want Beauchemin or Mantador. Thats not what this team needs. Go after Jay-Bo he is top 15 d-men in the league, trade Carle do not resign Knuble or move Lupul.

3 years from now Timonen is gone or resigned for much less.
Let's talk about Jay Bouwmeester shall we, because he seems to be considered a top 15 d-man, but what has he really done during his career. Let's take a look at facts: Fact - the only time he ever played in a playoff game was in the AHL and he scored 0 points that year; Fact - he's been in Florida for over seven years now and how many playoff games has he been a part of? 0, similar to the amount of points he scored when he played in the AHL playoffs. Fact - when Florida was in a contending position for the playoffs, Bouwmeester played his absolute worst hockey down the stretch and his play was a big reason why Florida coughed up the last playoff spot. Fact - for a man his size, he isn't that physical of a player. Fact - as a free agent, he's going to command 7 to 8 million dollars a year. Is he as good as guys like Pronger, Niedermeyer, Lidstrom, or Chara? No, he isn't. I'll also go on the record right now and say that he isn't as good a player as Timonen is and that Braydon Coburn is the exact same player that Bouwmeester is, and plays with more snarl in his game.

So, in order to sign a guy like Bouwmeester, the Flyers are probably going to have to unload players left right and center to fall under the cap. On top of that, there would still be players that need to be signed that we won't be able to sign if Bouwmeester signs here. He's not needed here.

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