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Looking back at the Lindros trade...

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Old
03-23-2004, 01:57 PM
  #1
Fletch
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Looking back at the Lindros trade...

and I'm talking 1992, it's pretty amazing what Philly gave up. Why am I thinking about this? I'm just thinking what the #1 overall pick in this year's draft would be worth - although I have a hard time believing any GM would give this package up.

Let's look at the package once again.

It was Forsberg, the draft's 6th overall pick in 1991.
It was Ricci, the draft's fourth overall pick in 1990, ahead of Jagr, Hatcher and Tkachuk, and who at 20 years of age, had already completed two NHL seasons with at least 20 goals.
It was Kerry Huffman, an OK defenseman if I remember correctly, at 25 years of age. OK defensively, OK offensively, nothing spectacular.
It was Hextall, an NHL goalie who never was great, but wasn't horrible, except in the 1994 playoffs against the Rangers.
And finally, a first rounder, which was the 10th overall in the next season's draft which ended up being Jocelyn Thibault.

Not sure if you're going to see that type of package once again. I think GMs have learned from the past. Now, without realizing what became of all these players as well what became of Lindros, is this trade worth it for one player? Heck, let's pretend that Lindros did become what he was supposed to become...do you still give up that package?

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03-23-2004, 02:07 PM
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Well for a while Lindros was what everyone expected of him, getting a Hart in '95 and going to the finals in '97. Bad knees, a collapsed lung, and countless concussions since it's a shame he has never lived up to expectations...

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03-23-2004, 02:16 PM
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Fitzlax99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
and I'm talking 1992, it's pretty amazing what Philly gave up. Why am I thinking about this? I'm just thinking what the #1 overall pick in this year's draft would be worth - although I have a hard time believing any GM would give this package up.

Let's look at the package once again.

It was Forsberg, the draft's 6th overall pick in 1991.
It was Ricci, the draft's fourth overall pick in 1990, ahead of Jagr, Hatcher and Tkachuk, and who at 20 years of age, had already completed two NHL seasons with at least 20 goals.
It was Kerry Huffman, an OK defenseman if I remember correctly, at 25 years of age. OK defensively, OK offensively, nothing spectacular.
It was Hextall, an NHL goalie who never was great, but wasn't horrible, except in the 1994 playoffs against the Rangers.
And finally, a first rounder, which was the 10th overall in the next season's draft which ended up being Jocelyn Thibault.

Not sure if you're going to see that type of package once again. I think GMs have learned from the past. Now, without realizing what became of all these players as well what became of Lindros, is this trade worth it for one player? Heck, let's pretend that Lindros did become what he was supposed to become...do you still give up that package?
You forgot Steve Duchense (sp?) and Chris Simon.

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03-23-2004, 02:31 PM
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Yeah, I knew I'd forget somebody...

makes the trade that much better for the Nordiques. Still amazing when you look back. I cannot even think of a current Ranger package that could match that.

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Old
03-23-2004, 02:43 PM
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Not sure how many closet comic book fans are here, but The Watcher would have a ball

What If edition.

What If the Rangers were the ones to have been awarded Eric Lindros?

Would the Rangers still have traded for Messier?
The drafting strategy would have been different so as to get players to support Eric.

A whole lot of things would have been different as well.

Maybe instead of 1 Stanley Cup, we would have had 3?

Those What If Comic books were great.


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03-23-2004, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
makes the trade that much better for the Nordiques. Still amazing when you look back. I cannot even think of a current Ranger package that could match that.

Wasn't there also a key player in that deal who went to Montreal in the Roy trade?

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Old
03-23-2004, 02:51 PM
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Q also got 15mill.. funny thinking about it.. Q wanted to take our offer of kovalev, beezer, patrick, amonte, weight, 15 mill, and a first but an arbitrator ruled the trade void since they had already accepted and processed phillies offer

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03-23-2004, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
What If edition.

What If the Rangers were the ones to have been awarded Eric Lindros?

Would the Rangers still have traded for Messier?
The drafting strategy would have been different so as to get players to support Eric.

A whole lot of things would have been different as well.

Maybe instead of 1 Stanley Cup, we would have had 3?

Those What If Comic books were great.

Messier was already a Ranger at the time of the deal. The question would have who would have played with Lindros? Amonte, Weight and Kovalev were a part of the package, along with VBK and two # 1's.

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03-23-2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Wasn't there also a key player in that deal who went to Montreal in the Roy trade?
Ah that was the other thing. They also got a second draft pick, in '94 i blieve, which they traded along with Thibault (and whoever else) which Montreal used to select Theodore. I think...

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03-23-2004, 03:07 PM
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there wont ever be a trade like that again because teams know too much about the prospects theyre trading away to ever do that now.. one things for sure, it wont happen this year.. ovechkin aint that goodand NOONE had the goods like lindross had

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03-23-2004, 03:10 PM
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Not talking what-if...

the Rangers acquired Lindros way back when. I was talking about the concept of that type of trade happening in today's NHL, #1, and #2, would that type of package be required to be the one that obtained this year's overall #1 (granted, Lindros wasn't acquired until a year after he was drafted). And I guess #3, if the type of package that was paid for Lindros was the going rate for today's #1 (and it's not, but just bored and playing a game), what package do the Rangers have currently that would equate to that package given up for him.

As for Roy...wasn't it Rucinsky and Kovalenko for Roy and Mike Keane?

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03-23-2004, 03:17 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
the Rangers acquired Lindros way back when. I was talking about the concept of that type of trade happening in today's NHL, #1, and #2, would that type of package be required to be the one that obtained this year's overall #1 (granted, Lindros wasn't acquired until a year after he was drafted). And I guess #3, if the type of package that was paid for Lindros was the going rate for today's #1 (and it's not, but just bored and playing a game), what package do the Rangers have currently that would equate to that package given up for him.

As for Roy...wasn't it Rucinsky and Kovalenko for Roy and Mike Keane?
It was Ruchunsky and Kovalenko all right, but Thibault as well. I could have sworn that Montreal used a draft pick they got from Colorado to pick Theodore, but having researched it a bit i cant find any evidence to that truth.

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03-23-2004, 03:21 PM
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tbo was part of the roy deal

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03-23-2004, 03:32 PM
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Yeah...

I'm very forgetful of everybody involved in those deals for some reason today. My memory's fading fast.

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03-23-2004, 03:38 PM
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I guess our #1 pick, which should be around the 4-5 slot, next years #1 pick, which should be a top 5, our first rounder from toronto, Lundmark, Tyutin, Garth Murray, and Dunham.

=

#6 overall pick (Forsberg), #10 overall pick (thibault), Ricci, Huffman, Dusechene, Simon and Hextall.

Yikes imagine giving that up for one player.

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03-23-2004, 03:44 PM
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Theodore had already been drafted in 1994, the Roy deal - Roy & Keane for Rucinsky/Kovalenko/Thibault.

I think teams would offer the some type of 'Lindros' deal for Sidney Crosby next year. Crosby has all the skill & more, but not the same frame that Eric had going for him.

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03-23-2004, 03:53 PM
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That may be about right...

our #1 this year is not as good as Forsberg was when he was given up. The Toronto pick doesn't equal Ricci. Lundmark, Tyutin, Murray may equal Huffman, Duchesne, Hextall. Given the top doesn't equal, I think Lundmark may need to be Jessiman. Anyway you slice it, it's a lot to give up for one player, and in today's 'team' game, I'm not sure that type of deal gets done again.

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03-23-2004, 05:35 PM
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Actually, the Messier deal didn't happen until

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
Messier was already a Ranger at the time of the deal. The question would have who would have played with Lindros? Amonte, Weight and Kovalev were a part of the package, along with VBK and two # 1's.

well after the draft.

Messier's first year in NY was the 91-92 season
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=3688

Eric was drafted in the summer 1991

The trade for Messier came late summer just before the regular season started. In fact if I'm not mistaken he missed the first 2 games due to not having a preseason under his belt. In his first game, against Boston the Rangers won in OT with Mess assisting on the game winner.

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03-23-2004, 05:44 PM
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wasn't lindros dealt in the summer of 92, which would explain why his rookie season wasn't until the 92-93 season.

either way, the deal changes the landscape of the league for good and bad.

I doub't you'll see a package like that for a player for a long time.

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03-23-2004, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
wasn't lindros dealt in the summer of 92, which would explain why his rookie season wasn't until the 92-93 season.

either way, the deal changes the landscape of the league for good and bad.

I doub't you'll see a package like that for a player for a long time.

Not till the next time the league thinks they have another Gretzky or "Lindros" on their hands ...

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03-23-2004, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
wasn't lindros dealt in the summer of 92, which would explain why his rookie season wasn't until the 92-93 season.

either way, the deal changes the landscape of the league for good and bad.

I doub't you'll see a package like that for a player for a long time.
Yup, he held out a year refusing to play for Quebec which is why he is still booed there. Still remember when the arbitrator ruled against the Rangers...

But I think you would see a similar deal if someone like Lindros comes around. It was not just hype surrounding him coming out of Juniors, he was freaking unreal, everyone knew he would be the next great one. He was a specimen and highly skilled teen. I remember reading an article about him during a team Canada practice, he had not even played an NHL game yet, but NHL veterans were showing him a lot of respect, especially after he crushed Al McInnis into the boards...

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03-23-2004, 08:21 PM
  #22
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The Lindros trade...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
well after the draft.

Messier's first year in NY was the 91-92 season
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=3688

Eric was drafted in the summer 1991

The trade for Messier came late summer just before the regular season started. In fact if I'm not mistaken he missed the first 2 games due to not having a preseason under his belt. In his first game, against Boston the Rangers won in OT with Mess assisting on the game winner.
took place at the 1992 draft. AAMOF, the Ferraro brothers were interviewed that day and asked about the possiblity of playing with Lindros, after they found out about the ranger offer for him.

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03-23-2004, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersFan
Yup, he held out a year refusing to play for Quebec which is why he is still booed there. Still remember when the arbitrator ruled against the Rangers...

But I think you would see a similar deal if someone like Lindros comes around. It was not just hype surrounding him coming out of Juniors, he was freaking unreal, everyone knew he would be the next great one. He was a specimen and highly skilled teen. I remember reading an article about him during a team Canada practice, he had not even played an NHL game yet, but NHL veterans were showing him a lot of respect, especially after he crushed Al McInnis into the boards...
I doubt you will ever see a trade like that again. Eric was thought to be the new generation of player - unlike anything see before. Size, Speed, Scoring Touch, Toughness - everything. I especially doubt you will ever see it with a new salary cap - it just wouldn't be feasible. Not to mention the fact that the game has changed: One superstar doesn't mean today what it did in 1991. Many succesful teams today are built with a large core of solid players believing and playing within a system. The mold for success has changed.

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03-23-2004, 10:25 PM
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i would agree 100% with the statement.

i just dont see it happening in today's nhl....or tomorrow's for that matter.

The AVS proved that the winner of a trade isn't always the one that gets the SINGLE best player, but the best core to build from.

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03-23-2004, 10:43 PM
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Yeah, but the Rangers are still in the league, and if I recall correctly there is the guy named Glen Sather who runs them...

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