HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

09/10 - Could this work?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-11-2009, 03:41 PM
  #101
Jeff Goldblum
Registered User
 
Jeff Goldblum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 7,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodILoveHockey View Post
** Staal is part of a package deal at the draft that sends Staal and our 2nd to move up in order to pick Ryan Ellis.
So stupid.

Jeff Goldblum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2009, 03:47 PM
  #102
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris the Blade View Post
So stupid.
I really like Ryan Ellis but he's not really a need here...if he's the BPA when it comes our turn to pick (which is very unlikely) then you take him.

But it seems silly to trade Staal and not get immediate help...especially on the wing.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2009, 04:05 PM
  #103
Jeff Goldblum
Registered User
 
Jeff Goldblum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 7,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I really like Ryan Ellis but he's not really a need here...if he's the BPA when it comes our turn to pick (which is very unlikely) then you take him.

But it seems silly to trade Staal and not get immediate help...especially on the wing.
I like Ellis too, but to trade Jordan Staal for him would be incredibly poor asset management, let alone Pittsburgh adding a second round pick.

Jeff Goldblum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2009, 11:03 PM
  #104
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I really like Ryan Ellis but he's not really a need here...if he's the BPA when it comes our turn to pick (which is very unlikely) then you take him.

But it seems silly to trade Staal and not get immediate help...especially on the wing.
What if he got traded for a winger on a rookie contract, use Staal money for a defenseman, and the rest on wing.

66-29-33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2009, 11:17 PM
  #105
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
What if he got traded for a winger on a rookie contract, use Staal money for a defenseman, and the rest on wing.
I mean that's a little better but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to invest 3 years into developing Staal and then moving him for a player that you basically have to start all over again with. Staal in his fourth season will most likely be more valuable than any rookie winger he could net us and since we are in win now mode...it's a bit of a step backwards.

Trading Staal is a bad idea unless you are getting a proven commodity in return...and even then you've got to weigh the potential and contract status of both players.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2009, 11:23 PM
  #106
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I mean that's a little better but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to invest 3 years into developing Staal and then moving him for a player that you basically have to start all over again with. Staal in his fourth season will most likely be more valuable than any rookie winger he could net us and since we are in win now mode...it's a bit of a step backwards.

Trading Staal is a bad idea unless you are getting a proven commodity in return...and even then you've got to weigh the potential and contract status of both players.
Well, i don't wanna trade Staal, i never have wanted to trade Staal. I dunno who we are going to trade when it comes to that point needing to trade a strength for a weakness ala Whitney for Kunitz/Tang.

66-29-33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 05:25 AM
  #107
Coach John McGuirk
Bylstarded
 
Coach John McGuirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris the Blade View Post
So stupid.
Incredibly insightful post.

Why take a shot at my intelligence instead of making a point?

I know you love Staal, we all do, but c'mon... He has the ability to be a great player, but he'll never fully reach potential around here. He's had flashes of brilliance but he needs to not be buried on a 3rd line with grinders for his entire career, and around here that's all that he will ever have to look forward to.

Staal is a great kid, and he's destined to be a really good player, but I don't see how he works around here. It's not his fault he was offered the contract he signed, but $4mil a year for the kind of player he's going to be in this organization is just not acceptable. That is a higher tier winger we could have helping to take pressure off of Crosby or Malkin. Zigomanis can easily take over Staal's role, and do it just as well while actually winning faceoffs.

Please don't make this personal and take a shot at me because you don't know me. I would love Staal to become an elite, dominant player on this team. The reality is that he won't. People ***** and complain about how he's underachieving in comparison to Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, etc. The face is, they aren't buried on the third line, being asked to play a defensive style of play with players who hinder his ability to be creative and improve his offensive game.

Cooke and Kennedy are good players, but they're by no means top 6 guys, and that's not a knock against them. It's the truth. They play solid styles, Cooke is a great agitator and he is good for a few good hits a night. Kennedy is smart, fast and plays responsibly in all areas of the ice.

I didn't want this to turn into another Staal thread, but I knew it had the chance to. You don't want to pick Ellis? Fine, but as a smart management move, Staal needs to be moved and he won't get us the immediate return that everyone thinks he will. Staal's value isn't exactly the best in the world right now, since he's being asked to shun his offensive game and he's being matched up against the other team's big guns (which he hasn't been doing a great job in this series).

Potential is great, but you can't trade potential for someone who is already producing. Who do you honestly believe Staal could fetch, that was a legitimate winger and long term solution? The fact is that Shero is in a tough situation. We don't have many, if any, real bargaining chips as far as trades go. Our best option in improving this team is through the draft and free agency.

Again, I love Staal and I think he's a great kid and will eventually be a fantastic player, but I don't see it happening while he's on this team. He isn't put in the right situations that a #2 pick deserves to be in, especially after his third year. Staal isn't Crosby or Malkin, and he isn't a winger, so at $4mil a year he just doesn't fit in around here. It's time to take a step back and take a look at Staal realistically, and not as a devoted Penguins fan. His upside, on this team anyway, is not very high. He should be moved before his value is driven into the ground and left to rot in a ditch as smoldering debris.

Coach John McGuirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:07 AM
  #108
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Well, i don't wanna trade Staal, i never have wanted to trade Staal. I dunno who we are going to trade when it comes to that point needing to trade a strength for a weakness ala Whitney for Kunitz/Tang.
I'd be more willing to trade Staal if there weren't enough minutes for him and there was someone behind him on the depth chart that could adequately replace him...but I'm not sure either is really the case.

Whitney became expendable with the return of Gonchar and the solid play of Letang and Goligoski. Do we have another center that can play the shutdown role as well as Staal and chip in offensively (although not as much as people would like)? I don't really think we do.

The Kennedy-Staal-Cooke line has some real chemistry and gives us a third line that we can play against other team's top lines, can cycle like crazy and threaten offensively. So it's not like we have to move him...there's room for him.

I'd be surprised if we pulled another Whitney type trade next season, since we've become a lot more balanced. But I guess a lot depends on what we do in free agency.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:54 AM
  #109
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
To me, it's becoming obvious who we need to deal this off-season...Chris Kunitz. Love the guy's compete level. Love his desire and his grit and love his experience. But he's just not significantly better than either Matt Cooke and Max Talbot in the goal-scoring department. I thought he would be a little better next to Sid. I'm sure most disagree. Whatever.

Teams might be willing to deal a first rounder for Kunitz. He has a decent contract and he has a lot of the intangibles teams look for. Maybe Columbus would be interested. Maybe the Kings, who on their board I've read that they are looking for a top-six forward to play left wing. Maybe he's their man.

There's absolutely no way I'd deal Staal before Kunitz. The stuff everybody b*tches about with regards to Staal apply to Kunitz, too. Yeah, Kunitz has better work ethic and brings it more night after night, but did he do that at age 20? I think not. I would bet that Jordan's hands will get way better than Kunitz in a short few seasons.

It probably sounds like I am throwing Kunitz under the bus right about now, but I don't care. To me, he's been a huge disappointment from a goal-scoring standpoint. And the problem is so bloody obvious. He refuses to shoot the puck. You can't play with Sid and not shoot. Even Pascal Dupuis shot the puck, with the same (lack of) success.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:03 AM
  #110
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
I was going to suggest the same thing, but I just think it's unlikely that management quits on Kunitz this quickly. I mean, remember who long they let Whitney stay here?

So that's why I don't think we're going to deal anyone.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:04 AM
  #111
Dread Pirate Roberts
Registered User
 
Dread Pirate Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mountain West
Country: United States
Posts: 5,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
To me, it's becoming obvious who we need to deal this off-season...Chris Kunitz. Love the guy's compete level. Love his desire and his grit and love his experience. But he's just not significantly better than either Matt Cooke and Max Talbot in the goal-scoring department. I thought he would be a little better next to Sid. I'm sure most disagree. Whatever.

Teams might be willing to deal a first rounder for Kunitz. He has a decent contract and he has a lot of the intangibles teams look for. Maybe Columbus would be interested. Maybe the Kings, who on their board I've read that they are looking for a top-six forward to play left wing. Maybe he's their man.

There's absolutely no way I'd deal Staal before Kunitz. The stuff everybody b*tches about with regards to Staal apply to Kunitz, too. Yeah, Kunitz has better work ethic and brings it more night after night, but did he do that at age 20? I think not. I would bet that Jordan's hands will get way better than Kunitz in a short few seasons.

It probably sounds like I am throwing Kunitz under the bus right about now, but I don't care. To me, he's been a huge disappointment from a goal-scoring standpoint. And the problem is so bloody obvious. He refuses to shoot the puck. You can't play with Sid and not shoot. Even Pascal Dupuis shot the puck, with the same (lack of) success.
Would it be such a horrific crime to let Malkin have a shot with a good player?

Oh yes, of course it would. Can't play with Sid -> trade him -> let Geno play with a 3rd liner and a 4th liner.

Dread Pirate Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:05 AM
  #112
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I was going to suggest the same thing, but I just think it's unlikely that management quits on Kunitz this quickly. I mean, remember who long they let Whitney stay here?

So that's why I don't think we're going to deal anyone.
Well, I hope you're wrong because if we keep Kunitz we will need to deal either Cooke or Talbot. There's no point in keeping three guys who all do the same job, more or less. I'd keep the two cheaper options myself, especially if Kunitz refuses to shoot the puck when playing with Sid. Max or Cooke could not shoot next to Sid for a lot less money.

But I fear you could be right.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:07 AM
  #113
WVP
Registered User
 
WVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 13,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
To me, it's becoming obvious who we need to deal this off-season...Chris Kunitz. Love the guy's compete level. Love his desire and his grit and love his experience. But he's just not significantly better than either Matt Cooke and Max Talbot in the goal-scoring department. I thought he would be a little better next to Sid. I'm sure most disagree. Whatever.

Teams might be willing to deal a first rounder for Kunitz. He has a decent contract and he has a lot of the intangibles teams look for. Maybe Columbus would be interested. Maybe the Kings, who on their board I've read that they are looking for a top-six forward to play left wing. Maybe he's their man.

There's absolutely no way I'd deal Staal before Kunitz. The stuff everybody b*tches about with regards to Staal apply to Kunitz, too. Yeah, Kunitz has better work ethic and brings it more night after night, but did he do that at age 20? I think not. I would bet that Jordan's hands will get way better than Kunitz in a short few seasons.

It probably sounds like I am throwing Kunitz under the bus right about now, but I don't care. To me, he's been a huge disappointment from a goal-scoring standpoint. And the problem is so bloody obvious. He refuses to shoot the puck. You can't play with Sid and not shoot. Even Pascal Dupuis shot the puck, with the same (lack of) success.
I think Kunitz has helped gain Crosby some space, and I'd like to see them develop real chemistry over the course of a regular season. And you can't deny the physical edge he brings to this team, especially when we were incredibly soft before the trade. He might be slightly overpaid but he's a keeper IMO.

WVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:08 AM
  #114
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Would it be such a horrific crime to let Malkin have a shot with a good player?

Oh yes, of course it would. Can't play with Sid -> trade him -> let Geno play with a 3rd liner and a 4th liner.
I don't know where you are getting this from, because Malkin wasn't mentioned at all in my rant about Kunitz. If you're suggesting Kunitz play with Malkin, what's the point? He will play like Talbot is playing right now on that line. Sure, Kunitz is a good player, but we need better. That goes for Sid's line AND Geno's line.

That $3.725 million could be put to better use.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:09 AM
  #115
Jeff Goldblum
Registered User
 
Jeff Goldblum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 7,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodILoveHockey View Post
Why take a shot at my intelligence instead of making a point?
Where did I take a shot at your intelligence? I called your idea stupid because it was. There's a difference.

If you really want to know my thoughts on Staal, you can go through my post history. I've done it enough in the recent past and don't really care to anymore, at least until the off-season when there's nothing else left to do except perpetually regurgitate my thoughts.

Jeff Goldblum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:09 AM
  #116
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVPens View Post
I think Kunitz has helped gain Crosby some space, and I'd like to see them develop real chemistry over the course of a regular season. And you can't deny the physical edge he brings to this team, especially when we were incredibly soft before the trade. He might be slightly overpaid but he's a keeper IMO.
He's a keeper sure, if Sid turns into a 60-goal man. Because he's the only one of the two willing to shoot the puck.

I don't think Sid is going to become a 60-goal man...so no, trade Kunitz while his value is high so that we can get a shooter.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:14 AM
  #117
Crosberry87
Registered User
 
Crosberry87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
To me, it's becoming obvious who we need to deal this off-season...Chris Kunitz. Love the guy's compete level. Love his desire and his grit and love his experience. But he's just not significantly better than either Matt Cooke and Max Talbot in the goal-scoring department. I thought he would be a little better next to Sid. I'm sure most disagree. Whatever.

Teams might be willing to deal a first rounder for Kunitz. He has a decent contract and he has a lot of the intangibles teams look for. Maybe Columbus would be interested. Maybe the Kings, who on their board I've read that they are looking for a top-six forward to play left wing. Maybe he's their man.

There's absolutely no way I'd deal Staal before Kunitz. The stuff everybody b*tches about with regards to Staal apply to Kunitz, too. Yeah, Kunitz has better work ethic and brings it more night after night, but did he do that at age 20? I think not. I would bet that Jordan's hands will get way better than Kunitz in a short few seasons.

It probably sounds like I am throwing Kunitz under the bus right about now, but I don't care. To me, he's been a huge disappointment from a goal-scoring standpoint. And the problem is so bloody obvious. He refuses to shoot the puck. You can't play with Sid and not shoot. Even Pascal Dupuis shot the puck, with the same (lack of) success.

I'm not happy about Kunitz's 0 playoff goals either, but he is not one to trade. He opens up a lot of ice for his linemates.

Crosberry87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:15 AM
  #118
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Well, I hope you're wrong because if we keep Kunitz we will need to deal either Cooke or Talbot. There's no point in keeping three guys who all do the same job, more or less. I'd keep the two cheaper options myself, especially if Kunitz refuses to shoot the puck when playing with Sid. Max or Cooke could not shoot next to Sid for a lot less money.

But I fear you could be right.
I'd deal Cooke waaaay before Kunitz...probably even Talbot. While he's had a rough playoffs, Kunitz is a legit top 6 winger who's good for 25 and 35 on a line with Sid. And at least when he isn't scoring he can create chances just by going back to his bread and butter.

Remember last playoffs when Pascal Dupuis seemed like a must re-sign? Look at him now. So I have a new stance on players who play in the bottom 6...go cheap. Obviously this gets blown out of the water by Staal, but I'm talking about everyone else. A lot of people really want to keep Zigomanis by offering him a good raise...which seems silly to me. He's just a life-cycle player who combines good value based on his contract...once you start paying him what he deserves (or could get from another team)...the value is gone and you start resenting him. That's what happened with Dupuis.

I guess all I'm saying is players like Cooke and Adams and even Kennedy and Talbot (you can even file Scuderi in here) shouldn't get overvalued because they are contributing while being cost effective.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:15 AM
  #119
Jeff Goldblum
Registered User
 
Jeff Goldblum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 7,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVPens View Post
I think Kunitz has helped gain Crosby some space, and I'd like to see them develop real chemistry over the course of a regular season. And you can't deny the physical edge he brings to this team, especially when we were incredibly soft before the trade. He might be slightly overpaid but he's a keeper IMO.
Agree with this. I like Kunitz a lot in a support role on a scoring line. He's not a perfect player and wasn't going to be Sid's new Hossa, but he does a lot of things well and will score at a better rate than he has lately, obviously. Like a lot of his teammates, he just hasn't been able to bury some chances he normally would. Sometimes, that's just how it plays out. It'd be great to see him being more productive in the post-season, but even if he finishes out with zero goals, I'm curious to see what a full regular season of developing chemistry can do.

He can put up 30 goals while doing the little things on his line, IMO. That takes a lot of pressure off of Sid and gives Shero flexibility in terms of who he can sign to play on Sid's RW. Kunitz is probably the biggest reason Guerin is such a good fit there.

Jeff Goldblum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:20 PM
  #120
mucker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Let's Be Safe!
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
All I know is that Malkin better not get stuck with crap again. You can say all you want about Sid not having good wingers, but it's not because of a lack of effort. Malkin has never had a player brought on for him; he always gets Crosby's sloppy seconds, basically. Hossa was brought in for Crosby, to an extent both Satan and Fedotenko were brought in for him, Guerin was brought for him, Kunitz was brought in for him, Sykora was originally brought in for him. I'm not saying that that's a great list by and large, besides Hossa, but the fact that Malkin's needs have been so overlooked is ridiculous to me.

mucker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:41 PM
  #121
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I'd deal Cooke waaaay before Kunitz...probably even Talbot. While he's had a rough playoffs, Kunitz is a legit top 6 winger who's good for 25 and 35 on a line with Sid. And at least when he isn't scoring he can create chances just by going back to his bread and butter.
I completely disagree with 'Mr. Trifecta' JagSid too as regards Kunitz . He's a very useful player and while he hasn't scored he has contributed in many other ways. He has 7 assists and is third man up on his line, which has freed Crosby to seek his own chance much more so that usual.
But it doesn't really make sense to talk about dealing Cooke or Talbot before him, because of their much different wages. If wages wasn't the issue noone would want Kunitz out. JagSid of course says Kunitz because then he believes we can skip Staal from that discussion, even if that does nothing for the top6 discussion as the very point is that bottom6 positions can be filled much cheaper than top6 positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Remember last playoffs when Pascal Dupuis seemed like a must re-sign? Look at him now. So I have a new stance on players who play in the bottom 6...go cheap.
Yeah. Largely agree. However you do pay a premium for character guys who have shown the versatility to perform in a variety of roles in the playoffs. Such as Talbot for instance. Dupuis, I agree. We have to move him before next season. Not because he isn't very much a serviceable bottom six player, but because he is overpaid for being in that role. Talbot who can pretty much play in every situation... at 1 million... a key guy for the room. I think you keep him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
A lot of people really want to keep Zigomanis by offering him a good raise...which seems silly to me. He's just a life-cycle player who combines good value based on his contract...once you start paying him what he deserves (or could get from another team)...the value is gone and you start resenting him. That's what happened with Dupuis.
I don't think I've seen anyone argue that Zigomanis should get more than 0.75-0.9 million. Thats closer to league minimum than Dupuis contract and for someone who has an elite skill that is really important... and one who has shown enough to think he can be a good player overall too. It sure would have been nice to have Zigomanis to out out there once in a while to win a key faceoff against Steckel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I guess all I'm saying is players like Cooke and Adams and even Kennedy and Talbot (you can even file Scuderi in here) shouldn't get overvalued because they are contributing while being cost effective.
Not as players they shouldn't, but their importance to the Penguins is certainly much higher because they contribute while creating room to pay others serious money. Having TFK for two years on 0.725 is tremendous for us. Matt Cooke in my opinion has been a huge success for us too at 1.2 because he scores a fair amount for a checker and on a team where few hits, that dimension of his play is key for us. Its hard to replace with like quality at the same money.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:41 PM
  #122
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoinaMalkina View Post
All I know is that Malkin better not get stuck with crap again. You can say all you want about Sid not having good wingers, but it's not because of a lack of effort. Malkin has never had a player brought on for him; he always gets Crosby's sloppy seconds, basically. Hossa was brought in for Crosby, to an extent both Satan and Fedotenko were brought in for him, Guerin was brought for him, Kunitz was brought in for him, Sykora was originally brought in for him. I'm not saying that that's a great list by and large, besides Hossa, but the fact that Malkin's needs have been so overlooked is ridiculous to me.
No. 18 was brought in for Sidney because the Malkin line was already perfect the way it was. Malone-Malkin-Sykora, there was no need for anything else. And they were hardly sloppy seconds. They were our two best wingers for almost all of 2007-08, until we acquired you know who. And we still had Dupuis on the No. 1 line, so I hardly see what you're complaining about.

That said, this does bring up the following...if Kunitz is kept as a $3.725 million "support winger", just how much money will we have left for a A) scoring RW for Sid and B) scoring winger for Geno (assuming we can live with Talbot or Caputi at LW on that line)?

If we keep Kunitz, we basically need a miracle...a rookie on an entry-level salary who just pulls a Jordan Staal in training camp or a Jagr for peanuts scenario, et al.

Talbot at $1 million and Cooke at $1.2 isn't going to help much cap wise if we deal them...dealing Kunitz would.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 10:16 PM
  #123
Crosberry87
Registered User
 
Crosberry87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
No. 18 was brought in for Sidney because the Malkin line was already perfect the way it was. Malone-Malkin-Sykora, there was no need for anything else. And they were hardly sloppy seconds. They were our two best wingers for almost all of 2007-08, until we acquired you know who. And we still had Dupuis on the No. 1 line, so I hardly see what you're complaining about.

That said, this does bring up the following...if Kunitz is kept as a $3.725 million "support winger", just how much money will we have left for a A) scoring RW for Sid and B) scoring winger for Geno (assuming we can live with Talbot or Caputi at LW on that line)?

If we keep Kunitz, we basically need a miracle...a rookie on an entry-level salary who just pulls a Jordan Staal in training camp or a Jagr for peanuts scenario, et al.

Talbot at $1 million and Cooke at $1.2 isn't going to help much cap wise if we deal them...dealing Kunitz would.

Staal will bring back alot more. GMs are still very high on his potential. He could end up being a great #2 center somewhere, possibly #1...but same old story, that wont happen here, and he is a horrible winger.

Crosberry87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 10:30 PM
  #124
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
That said, this does bring up the following...if Kunitz is kept as a $3.725 million "support winger", just how much money will we have left for a A) scoring RW for Sid and B) scoring winger for Geno (assuming we can live with Talbot or Caputi at LW on that line)?
Lets put this support 'winger' thing in perspective.
While with the Penguins, this is what Kunitz has given us so far:

1: 25 points in 31 matches including the playoffs. That puts him on pace for equal point production to this seasons efforts by: Lecavallier, Kopitar, Pominville, Kovalev, Hemsky, Dumont and Setoguchi.
2: While Kunitz doesn't score all that many goals, in the time he has been here, Crosby has scored goals at a substantially higher clip than ever before in his NHL career, both at the end of the regular season (10 goals in 17 games) and of course in these playoffs (10 goals in 11 games). Mere coincidence? Perhaps not.
3: Kunitz is by far the most physical player on our top6.
4: Kunitz is the player with most hits on our team apart from Brooks and Cooke.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2009, 07:35 AM
  #125
AgentM
Registered User
 
AgentM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Allison Park, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,828
vCash: 500
I agree with WVPens and Boris the Blade that Kunitz brings a lot of things to our top 6 beyond goal scoring in terms of his physicality and how he opens up the ice for his linemates. And I too want to see how he meshes over the course of a full season with Sid. Or Geno even. Who knows what will happen next season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Lets put this support 'winger' thing in perspective.
While with the Penguins, this is what Kunitz has given us so far:

1: 25 points in 31 matches including the playoffs. That puts him on pace for equal point production to this seasons efforts by: Lecavallier, Kopitar, Pominville, Kovalev, Hemsky, Dumont and Setoguchi.
2: While Kunitz doesn't score all that many goals, in the time he has been here, Crosby has scored goals at a substantially higher clip than ever before in his NHL career, both at the end of the regular season (10 goals in 17 games) and of course in these playoffs (10 goals in 11 games). Mere coincidence? Perhaps not.
3: Kunitz is by far the most physical player on our top6.
4: Kunitz is the player with most hits on our team apart from Brooks and Cooke.
Good stuff here 'Too 66'. I have to admit I'm frustrated by his lack of goal scoring but I hadn't realized how many points he'd put up and how much Sid's goal scoring had increased since he got here.

One thing that seems to have changed in his game in the playoffs is that he isn't crashing the crease like he was when he first got here. Those first 25/20 games he was in traffic getting garbage goals and deflections. Now it seems like Sid is always the one in the crease doing that. Maybe that's by design? Or maybe just how the puck has been bouncing?

AgentM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.