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Fla-Phil Trade Proposal

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:02 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It certainly could have been better, but I think it was the least of their problems honestly. They give up too many shots, the defense is largely young and inexperienced, they get no support from the forwards, they don't have a good defensive system in place, and they take too many penalties. Not to mention the team was largely inconsistent and often thought they could sleepwalk through games. I think these issues contribute to the GAA more than Biron did honestly.

I think upgrading the defense would be just as beneficial if not more than upgrading the goaltending.
You are correct that it was a combination of everything you mentioned. Goaltending has to be upgraded from Biron though. Im not saying that they have to get a Luongo type goalie in order to win, it would be nice, but they have to get someone who is not going to let in that back breaking soft goal that Biron does.

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05-19-2009, 02:06 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
Signing/trading for Boumeester doesn't help the Flyers horrendous goaltening.
His .915 SV% would probably he higher if your defensemen didn't allow over 31.23 shots against per game.

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05-19-2009, 02:07 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
Holmgren would obviously have to dump some salary before we can make any significant moves. I'd like to see him move Lupul and Carle. Of course you to find a team that would be willing to take them. Moving Jones instead of Carle is probably a more viable option since he only has one year left on his contract.
Yea, I agree.

The best case scenario, in my mind, is swapping out Lupul for Harding (whatever is needed to even it out), and signing a veteran backup for cheap (someone like Clemmenson).

Trade Jones for whatever we can get. I don't care if its for a pair of underwear with holes in it. The value we get back is cap space, and that's all I'd want from it (I'd also look at doing something similar with Carle, but if we can't improve upon him with a cheaper option, then we may as well keep him).

We'd have enough available cap space left to tinker with the D (there are numerous options if the above all come to pass). We'd be taking a chance on Harding, who is hardly proven, but considering our cap situation, and the assets that would be required to get a huge upgrade on D or G, this appears to be our best option.

Of course, it takes two to tango, and I don't know if Minnesota does this, nor do I know if we can unload Jones, but that's how I'd approach it if I were GM (but of course, there's a reason I'm not the GM...Could have something to do with the fact that I'm not qualified )

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05-19-2009, 02:09 PM
  #79
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Anderson_(trainer)

Greg F. Anderson (born February 1966) is a convicted felon and former personal trainer, best known for his work with Barry Bonds, Eric Spritz and links with BALCO.

That's who the Flyers need.
Bravo Sir...well done


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05-19-2009, 02:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Lupul + Parent for Vokoun is something I'd be interested in if you guys were inclined to move him.
Perennial Vezina dark horse for a 4.25 million 45 points forward and a more than average defenseman ?

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05-19-2009, 02:12 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Matt714 View Post
His .915 SV% would probably he higher if your defensemen didn't allow over 31.23 shots against per game.
or if Biron doesnt give up his patented 2 soft goals a game.

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05-19-2009, 02:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Matt714 View Post
Perennial Vezina dark horse for a 4.25 million 45 points forward and a more than average defenseman ?
i dont know if that would work in NHL 09

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:04 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
You still have to figure in replacements for (or re-signing) Boynton and Skrastins, as well as Zednik, Dvorak, and Peltonen. It'd be very tight.



Vokoun's not going to be moved, and if he is, it most certainly won't be for that offer.
Okay, the Panthers would get either Briere or Lupul, and JVR up front. I am sure they would re-sign Skrats,or at least I do hope so,and I think Boynton is out. They can bring up Matthias and Repik to fill in the other spots left by the players who aren't going to be back.

I think the trade would more then likely be for Lupul and not Briere,just because of cap reasons, but either way these are my lineups.

Lupul-Weiss-Frolik
Booth-Kreps-Horton
Stillman-Campbell-JVR
Olesz-Matthias-Repik

or
Stillman-Briere-Frolik
Booth-Weiss-Horton
JVR-Kreps-Repik
Olesz-Campbell-Matthias


Something similar to these lineups I think would be sufficiant. I didn't put Horton on the top line because I don't think he works hard enough to be on the top line,but if he actually decided to show up each and every night to play hockey then I am definately up for him being on the top line. I think these would be the players on the team though,give or take Matthias,Stewart,or Tarnasky. I would trade away Mclean for either draft picks or prospects to give the team some more cap space. Also, I don't know about Lupul or JVR and how they play,but I would definately like a player who has toughness and grit,maybe even enforcer. Although he wasn't offensively productive, I really enjoyed Belak on the team because we had a guy who could bang bodies and protect the team when need be.

Defense would be:

Ballard-Allen
McCabe-Parent
Skrats-Eminger/Ellerby/Garrison. <-- Depends on if the Panthers keep Eminger, then those three players would compete for the final spot.

Voukoun
?? Backup... Maybe Nitty...

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05-19-2009, 05:43 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It certainly could have been better, but I think it was the least of their problems honestly. They give up too many shots, the defense is largely young and inexperienced, they get no support from the forwards, they don't have a good defensive system in place, and they take too many penalties. Not to mention the team was largely inconsistent and often thought they could sleepwalk through games. I think these issues contribute to the GAA more than Biron did honestly.

I think upgrading the defense would be just as beneficial if not more than upgrading the goaltending.
completely agreed

it is easy to blame goaltending, but flyers' main problem by far is team D.

they should get a good defensive coach.

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05-19-2009, 07:01 PM
  #85
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Yea, I agree.

The best case scenario, in my mind, is swapping out Lupul for Harding (whatever is needed to even it out), and signing a veteran backup for cheap (someone like Clemmenson).

Trade Jones for whatever we can get. I don't care if its for a pair of underwear with holes in it. The value we get back is cap space, and that's all I'd want from it (I'd also look at doing something similar with Carle, but if we can't improve upon him with a cheaper option, then we may as well keep him).

We'd have enough available cap space left to tinker with the D (there are numerous options if the above all come to pass). We'd be taking a chance on Harding, who is hardly proven, but considering our cap situation, and the assets that would be required to get a huge upgrade on D or G, this appears to be our best option.

Of course, it takes two to tango, and I don't know if Minnesota does this, nor do I know if we can unload Jones, but that's how I'd approach it if I were GM (but of course, there's a reason I'm not the GM...Could have something to do with the fact that I'm not qualified )

I agree wholeheartedly. I'd like to see Knuble back for <=$2 million and Alberts back for about what he made this year ($1.25 million?). I also want a top-4 defensive defenseman, and maybe a legit 3rd line center who can win a damn faceoff.

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05-19-2009, 07:45 PM
  #86
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I agree with Lupul for Harding. Then stack the top 2 lines, try and get Knuble back for 3rd line and PP. Get a defensive Center that can win a faceoff. Get a back-up Goalie.

Gagne Richards Hartnell
Briere Carter Giroux
Nodl new C Knuble
Carcillo Powe Asham

Timonen Coburn
Parent Carle
Sbisa Jones(for now)

Harding
backup

And be on the lookout for a D-man that fits the right price range and toughness desired.

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Old
05-19-2009, 07:53 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
I agree with Lupul for Harding. Then stack the top 2 lines, try and get Knuble back for 3rd line and PP. Get a defensive Center that can win a faceoff. Get a back-up Goalie.

Gagne Richards Hartnell
Briere Carter Giroux
Nodl new C Knuble
Carcillo Powe Asham

Timonen Coburn
Parent Carle
Sbisa Jones(for now)

Harding
backup

And be on the lookout for a D-man that fits the right price range and toughness desired.
I'd try to get rid of Jones for anything or nothing. There are rumors that he might start the season LTIR with the hip situation, too. I'd love to ditch him, sign Montador or Beauchemin, and re-sign Alberts for cheap to be the 6th/7th guy.

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05-19-2009, 07:57 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
or if Biron doesnt give up his patented 2 soft goals a game.


Big time exaggeration here. Marty's no all-star but he's solid, not spectacular. He stood on his head against Washington and Montreal in last years playoffs and we advanced. He was far from the reason we lost this year. Many Flyers fans would be fine with Marty being back but know we're in tough to give him a raise. Personally, I don't think we can win a Cup with him but I think a better team could.

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05-19-2009, 07:59 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I'd try to get rid of Jones for anything or nothing. There are rumors that he might start the season LTIR with the hip situation, too. I'd love to ditch him, sign Montador or Beauchemin, and re-sign Alberts for cheap to be the 6th/7th guy.
Agree about Jones. I just want him to go away at this point.

I think Beauchemin would be great, but I fear he's going to be priced out of our budget, even if we do clear space with Jones and Lupul (we'll still have raises to hand out in the near future, and we'll need some cap space to do it).

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05-19-2009, 08:11 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Big time exaggeration here. Marty's no all-star but he's solid, not spectacular. He stood on his head against Washington and Montreal in last years playoffs and we advanced. He was far from the reason we lost this year. Many Flyers fans would be fine with Marty being back but know we're in tough to give him a raise. Personally, I don't think we can win a Cup with him but I think a better team could.
so he needs to stand on his head for them to advance. tired of having a goalie having to play above his normal level to succeed. he was the main reaosn they lsot to the pens. giving up 1 or 2 soft goal every game at inopportune times is his m/o. put biron ont he pens and fleury on the flyers who do you think is still playing.

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05-19-2009, 09:50 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt714 View Post
Perennial Vezina dark horse for a 4.25 million 45 points forward and a more than average defenseman ?
Given the fact that historically goalies are undervalued a little bit in trades and some Panthers fans have given the impression he is available, I thought it was a decent starting point. I would have offered Briere and Parent, but then all I hear is about his albatross contract (6.5 million is not that bad) on a team that doesn't spend to the cap anyway so they wont be handcuffed by the cap hit towards the end of his cotnract (as the final two years he averages 2.5 million in salary). Vokoun is not getting any younger and is paid pretty well, so I think Lupul + Parent is pretty reasonable. I wouldn't be outraged by the thought of adding a pick maybe.


Parent is young yet, and managed to make and the stay in the top pairing through the play offs in his first real NHL season. I think he is going to be a very very good defender for the Flyers for a long time. If you disagree regarding his value and ability, no problem...

I also think Lupul's #s suffer from playing on a line with Jeff Carter and Scott Hartnell. The two of them scored 76 goals, so there are only so many shots to go around. For what its worth he was scoring on 13% of his shots this year which is higher than A LOT of the league's best scorers (he still managed ~50points on that line, which doesn't exactly stink). His salary isn't bad for his production level and upside. Again, if you disagree, no big deal.

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:52 PM
  #92
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Why would briere wanna go to florida?

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05-19-2009, 09:56 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
completely agreed

it is easy to blame goaltending, but flyers' main problem by far is team D.

they should get a good defensive coach.
I don't know what you mean exactly by "team D" but they need win some face offs and get some passes out of the zone. You can't win a face off, you're chasing the other team around your zone trying to get the puck. Eventually you'll commit a penalty somewhere. Maybe you can get the puck, but then you turn it over on the break out pass, and the cycle repeats. Winning face-offs will ease the burden of the team's other imperfections, just my opinion.

I would be interested to see the average amount of time on attack per goal scored for most NHL teams. I have a hunch the Flyers would be towards the top.

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05-19-2009, 11:00 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Why would briere wanna go to florida?
Well, Briere did sign with a Philadelphia team who was dead last in the league.

Who knows where he'd want to go.

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05-20-2009, 01:25 AM
  #95
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Why would briere wanna go to florida?
Why wouldn't he? He would be the to line center and would likely have Frolik, Horton, or Booth on his wings.



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Old
05-20-2009, 01:30 AM
  #96
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Why wouldn't he? He would be the to line center and would likely have Frolik, Horton, or Booth on his wings.


don't stick your head in the warm Miami sand man...

playing in front of big raucous crowds of dedicated and knowledgable hockey fans is important to some players. climate is also important to some people. a history of success is important to some people.

at the same time your point is somewhat valid IF Briere is the kind of player that needs to be "the guy" and I'm not sure anyone really knows that. but the listed players aren't much to point to cause he'd play with the same level of talent in Philly

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05-20-2009, 02:13 AM
  #97
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don't stick your head in the warm Miami sand man...

playing in front of big raucous crowds of dedicated and knowledgable hockey fans is important to some players. climate is also important to some people. a history of success is important to some people.

at the same time your point is somewhat valid IF Briere is the kind of player that needs to be "the guy" and I'm not sure anyone really knows that. but the listed players aren't much to point to cause he'd play with the same level of talent in Philly
What? The guy I quoted asked why he'd want to go to Florida, I gave him a few reasons why. Where'd I say the talent was better than Philly? Point is that he could help those guys become better and he has several reasons to want to go there. Florida isn't the same team it's been previously.

Stick my head in the sand? Little overboard.

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05-20-2009, 02:18 AM
  #98
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Stick my head in the sand? Little overboard.
That was mostly directed at the headshake which seemed to say, "someone saying a player won't want to come to florida, absurd and groundless"

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05-20-2009, 03:02 AM
  #99
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That was mostly directed at the headshake which seemed to say, "someone saying a player won't want to come to florida, absurd and groundless"
No, it was saying that that's a dumb thing to say as there are other reasons that a player wouldn't mind coming. For the reasons you listed as not wanting to come here, there's about as many for him to want to come here. Iow, that post was ridiculous since noone knows what's going on in his head.

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Old
05-20-2009, 04:31 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Agree about Jones. I just want him to go away at this point.

I think Beauchemin would be great, but I fear he's going to be priced out of our budget, even if we do clear space with Jones and Lupul (we'll still have raises to hand out in the near future, and we'll need some cap space to do it).
If Knuble re-signs at $2 million per, Alberts re-signs at $1.3 million per, we get a Beauchemin/Montador at $2 million per, ditch Jones, and we trade Lupul for Harding signed at $2.5 million per, we are looking at this:

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
JVR-UFA Center-Giroux
Carcillo-Ross-Asham
Cote

Timonen-Beauchemin/Montador
Carle-Parent
Sbisa-Coburn
Alberts

Harding
Backup


That is about $54-55 million in cap space, give or take. That team is better than our current team, and it's set up to win for 2-3 years.

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