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Fla-Phil Trade Proposal

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:46 AM
  #101
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Harding
Backup


That is about $54-55 million in cap space, give or take. That team is better than our current team, and it's set up to win for 2-3 years.
That looks good, but Harding as our starter seems optimistic. He might be ready, but our back up had better have been a starter somewhere before, just in case. I think Nitty would be a good candidate, or Yan Danis if he will sign for cheap looked serviceable from what I saw. Also Montador as a first pairing guy? I think he would be a good signing as someone to play with Sbisa/Alberts and keep Parent up there. I like Beauchemin as a first or second pairing guy though.

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05-20-2009, 11:43 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Big time exaggeration here. Marty's no all-star but he's solid, not spectacular. He stood on his head against Washington and Montreal in last years playoffs and we advanced. He was far from the reason we lost this year. Many Flyers fans would be fine with Marty being back but know we're in tough to give him a raise. Personally, I don't think we can win a Cup with him but I think a better team could.
You put Biron on Detroit and they don't get passed Anaheim. Biron is not a #1 goalie and never will be. He was not the reason they lost to the Pens but he did nothing to help them win either.

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05-20-2009, 11:59 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
You put Biron on Detroit and they don't get passed Anaheim. Biron is not a #1 goalie and never will be. He was not the reason they lost to the Pens but he did nothing to help them win either.
You put freaking Valliquette on Detroit and he does pretty well for himself...

Biron is very much an underrated goalie.

Flyers have a good top two on defense in Timonen and Coburn, but think of the lineups we've had over the past 2 years in front of Marty:

Timonen - Coburn
Smith - Hatcher
Jones - Modry
Kukkonen

Timonen - Parent
Carle - Coburn
Jones - Alberts
Sbisa

The 2nd one is better, but not by much. The defense in 07-08 was slow and old. The defense in 08-09 was young and mistake-prone.

Marty had very good stats by the end of the season.

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05-20-2009, 12:23 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
You put freaking Valliquette on Detroit and he does pretty well for himself...

Biron is very much an underrated goalie.

Flyers have a good top two on defense in Timonen and Coburn, but think of the lineups we've had over the past 2 years in front of Marty:

Timonen - Coburn
Smith - Hatcher
Jones - Modry
Kukkonen

Timonen - Parent
Carle - Coburn
Jones - Alberts
Sbisa

The 2nd one is better, but not by much. The defense in 07-08 was slow and old. The defense in 08-09 was young and mistake-prone.

Marty had very good stats by the end of the season.
I'm not saying that the defense wasn't a problem for the Flyers this season. There has to be some adjustments made there, no doubt about it. Marty did nothing this year to prove that he is worth an extention. Biron hurt the Flyers more then he helped them.

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05-20-2009, 12:50 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
Marty did nothing this year to prove that he is worth an extention.
While I disagree that we can't win with Marty (providing the defense improves in one way or another), I do agree that he is not worth a longterm, expensive contract, and that appears to be what he is thinking (and most players in his situation would want the same thing).

If Marty won't take another short term deal (at a reasonable cap hit), then we need to look elsewhere, especially with our cap situation.

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05-20-2009, 01:04 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
While I disagree that we can't win with Marty (providing the defense improves in one way or another), I do agree that he is not worth a longterm, expensive contract, and that appears to be what he is thinking (and most players in his situation would want the same thing).

If Marty won't take another short term deal (at a reasonable cap hit), then we need to look elsewhere, especially with our cap situation.
We disagree about Biron but we can agree that the D needs to be adjusted.

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05-20-2009, 01:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
That looks good, but Harding as our starter seems optimistic. He might be ready, but our back up had better have been a starter somewhere before, just in case. I think Nitty would be a good candidate, or Yan Danis if he will sign for cheap looked serviceable from what I saw. Also Montador as a first pairing guy? I think he would be a good signing as someone to play with Sbisa/Alberts and keep Parent up there. I like Beauchemin as a first or second pairing guy though.

Oh, I'd want a veteran backup who's been a 1A/1B type of guy, too, not just any geek off the street. I also tend to like to spread out the defensive talent across the top-4. Unless you've got two absolute studs who can play 25-30 a game, I'd rather the top pairing be the #1 guy and the #3 or #4 guy, and the second be the #2 and the one left over. Of course, complementary playing styles helps, too. I don't think that Montador is a top pairing guy (and, ideally, Beauchemin is a #3-4 guy, too), but you have to try different things out when you get new talent in. Frankly, I am more concerned that we get rid of Jones somehow, and make sure that we have at least 7 guys who are all healthy and are legitimate NHL'ers. Depth is extremely important, as is team defense and getting all of the forwards involved. Also, taking fewer damn penalties.

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Old
05-20-2009, 01:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
We disagree about Biron but we can agree that the D needs to be adjusted.
Yeppers, there's no doubt in my mind about the defense.

It would be nice if Coburn, Parent and Carle all took huge strides next year, because that would go a long way in taking this team where it needs to be. All have much more to give than we've seen so far.

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05-20-2009, 01:36 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Yeppers, there's no doubt in my mind about the defense.

It would be nice if Coburn, Parent and Carle all took huge strides next year, because that would go a long way in taking this team where it needs to be. All have much more to give than we've seen so far.
I expected Coburn to be better then he was. Honestly, its almost like to took a step back but he's got ton of potential and there's no reason to give up on him. I expect Parent to be a top 4 dman next year. Would like to see him stay paired with Kimo. Ive said in other posts that Id like to see Carle and Jones both moved. Have Sbisa come in and get a FA/Trade to fill the other spot. Im fine if they resign Alberts at 1 mil. Anything more then that I'd look else where.

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05-20-2009, 01:37 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I also tend to like to spread out the defensive talent across the top-4.

Also, taking fewer damn penalties.
I agree with the idea of spreading the defense, I think you're spot on.

Timonen - Carle
Coburn - Parent
Sbisa - Beauchemin (Montador if Beauchemin isn't available)

Carle goes pinch crazy sometimes, and Kimmo is good enough to bail him out a lot. Coburn and Parent are both solid enough to play with each other, but neither to cover for Carles occaisonal mind-farts, sometimes Coburns takes soem risks and pinches up, but I think Parents enough of a stay at home guy that it shouldnt be a big deal. Sbisa - Beauchemin, I like because I think Beauchemin is the kind of defender Sbisa will likely develop to be, a jack of all trades type. Would provide a nice model for his game. Beauchemin in the top works too, as I think Parent - Sbisa would be a good pairing to get clicking together. That could be our top line in four or five years.


As for the penalties, that starts with face offs and being able to make a break out pass. Less time in the zone = less penalties. My two cents.

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Old
05-20-2009, 01:48 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
I expected Coburn to be better then he was. Honestly, its almost like to took a step back but he's got ton of potential and there's no reason to give up on him. I expect Parent to be a top 4 dman next year. Would like to see him stay paired with Kimo. Ive said in other posts that Id like to see Carle and Jones both moved. Have Sbisa come in and get a FA/Trade to fill the other spot. Im fine if they resign Alberts at 1 mil. Anything more then that I'd look else where.
Yea, I expected more from Coburn last season as well, but clearly, all of the tools are there for him to be a stud. He just needs more seasoning.

I expect Parent to eventually be a consistent top-4 defenseman, I'm just not sure that it will happen next season. I think for sure that he will be a serviceable top-4 guy next year, but I'm not sure he will be at the level that makes our defense Cup calibre. He's still got a ways to go, but definitely has the tools.

Carle is so maddening, really. He shows flashes of excellent play, coupled with stretches of inconsistencies. Considering his age, that's to be expected, but considering his contract, he simply has to be better, and he has to be better now. There is no way around it in a salary cap world. If we could replace him with a cheaper, more reliable player, then we have to do it, regardless of upside.

Jones needs to go. There really is no other way to say it. He hinders our chances on the ice, and he hinders our salary cap. He has no place on our roster, plain and simple.

I love Sbisa, but I have two concerns about his at this time. First, he's not ready to be a top-4 guy. Anyone that expects that out of him at this point is delusional. Secondly, he needs playing time, and I'm not sure the best thing for his development is to play on the 3rd pairing. Of course, the Flyers should know much better than I about what's best for his development, but I hate to rush young players.

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05-20-2009, 02:07 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
No, it was saying that that's a dumb thing to say as there are other reasons that a player wouldn't mind coming. For the reasons you listed as not wanting to come here, there's about as many for him to want to come here. Iow, that post was ridiculous since noone knows what's going on in his head.
I am not saying Florida is a band franchise...but briere chose to sign in philly for many reasons. He has a family and has settled down there...he is making good money playing for a highly respected organization...on a good young team...playing in front of tons of die hard hockey fans. Why would he wanna give that up? He has a NMC...meaning he decides where he plays, not the flyers. If he got traded to florida and had no choice in the manner, then yeah you give good reasons of positive reasons to want to play in florida...but that just isnt the case.

I just highly doubt briere is gonna wanna uproot his entire family to move down south just so he can play with horton in frolik...especially when he could be playing with guys like giroux in philly...thats all i was trying to say.

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Old
05-20-2009, 02:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
I agree with the idea of spreading the defense, I think you're spot on.

Timonen - Carle
Coburn - Parent
Sbisa - Beauchemin (Montador if Beauchemin isn't available)

Carle goes pinch crazy sometimes, and Kimmo is good enough to bail him out a lot. Coburn and Parent are both solid enough to play with each other, but neither to cover for Carles occaisonal mind-farts, sometimes Coburns takes soem risks and pinches up, but I think Parents enough of a stay at home guy that it shouldnt be a big deal. Sbisa - Beauchemin, I like because I think Beauchemin is the kind of defender Sbisa will likely develop to be, a jack of all trades type. Would provide a nice model for his game. Beauchemin in the top works too, as I think Parent - Sbisa would be a good pairing to get clicking together. That could be our top line in four or five years.


As for the penalties, that starts with face offs and being able to make a break out pass. Less time in the zone = less penalties. My two cents.

I am really high on Sbisa. I have been since I saw him at prospects camp. He may take a while to develop, but I think that he can be a top-pairing defenseman in his prime. Also, his sister is pretty hot.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:03 PM
  #114
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I am not saying Florida is a band franchise...but briere chose to sign in philly for many reasons. He has a family and has settled down there...he is making good money playing for a highly respected organization...on a good young team...playing in front of tons of die hard hockey fans. Why would he wanna give that up? He has a NMC...meaning he decides where he plays, not the flyers. If he got traded to florida and had no choice in the manner, then yeah you give good reasons of positive reasons to want to play in florida...but that just isnt the case.

I just highly doubt briere is gonna wanna uproot his entire family to move down south just so he can play with horton in frolik...especially when he could be playing with guys like giroux in philly...thats all i was trying to say.
I am, we have the worst owner in professional sports arguably and the longest playoffless streak as well. We are the arizona cardinals of the NHL

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:07 PM
  #115
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I am, we have the worst owner in professional sports arguably and the longest playoffless streak as well. We are the arizona cardinals of the NHL
You're going to the Stanley Cup Finals?

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05-20-2009, 09:24 PM
  #116
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You're going to the Stanley Cup Finals?
meant the time of suckiness

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05-20-2009, 09:25 PM
  #117
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meant the time of suckiness
I was just kidding you. They were the kings of the 7-9 NFL season for a long time.

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Old
05-21-2009, 08:12 AM
  #118
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I am, we have the worst owner in professional sports arguably and the longest playoffless streak as well. We are the arizona cardinals of the NHL
I obviously feel your pain. I don't believe, however, that Cohen is the worst owner, but definitely somewhere in the bottom 5. That is why I am a supporter of Jacque Martin as GM, who has brought a sense of sanity. For the first time in years, a GM is trying to build a team the right way. We have a good, young coach with a system that fits our talent, who has earned the respect of the players. We are building from the goal out, while exercising solid, cap management.

Today, the Panthers are improving, but still a marginal, potential play off team. Unlike the Flyers, we are not serious contenders for the cup. That is why the proposed trades with the Flyers involving Briere make no sense from the Cats prospective.

The major chips that we have to trade are Vokoun, who has indicated a willingness to waive his NMC, the rights to J-Bo and possibly Horton. What we need is a young center, a young, puck moving D-man (replace J-Bo) and prospects or picks assuming that we re-sign Anderson. The Flyers obviously could use Vokoun, who would allow them to make a serious run for the cup. The Flyers, due to their depth, clearly have what the Cats need and presumably might be willing to overpay somewhat in order to clear cap space and put themselves in a position to make a serious run at the cup. We will see....

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