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Komisarek or Beauchemin?

View Poll Results: Who would you rather sign?
Komisarek 108 56.25%
Beauchemin 84 43.75%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-11-2009, 01:40 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Subbanator76 smells like a guy that have not watched hockey until this year
You've got to be right I guess.

No, really, unlike you and most people on this board, I'm watching the game beyond my homerism.

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05-11-2009, 01:44 PM
  #77
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See, this is where you're wrong. There is a precedent for paying defensive defencemen that much. Cory Sarich, Mike Commodore, Scott Hannan, Jeff Finger, etc, etc. Defensemen are incredibly expensive and, if you need one, you'll have to pay for it. The Habs undoubtedly need the best defenceman possible, and the options are Komi and Beauchemin. Beauchemin isn't that much better than Komi offensively. He only had 20 points in a full season last year. How is that much better? The fact is, the Habs could use either guy, and there's always room for a better defenceman as long as they're hard-working. I don't see any other option. I would say Oduya is the puck-moving D you're looking for, but does anyone really think Lou Lamoriello is going to let him slip away?

When it comes to bringing back Komi or getting another D, the Habs are going to either pay the price on their cap or they're going to pay the price when the games are played.
And all those teams are doing great with all those players. You can throw Regehr in there as well.

I will say it again.. Komisarek and the others mentioned above, their skill sets are overrated. They are not really necessary anymore in the NNHL.

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05-11-2009, 01:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Subbanator76 View Post
Beauchemin has a SC Ring. He has much more experience than Komisarek and knows what it takes to win games in the playoffs. Komisarek does nothing to help the transition game. A couple of summer ago, when people were asked if they'd rather have Souray or Hamrlik, 100% would've answered Souray. However, Hamrlik helped our transition game big time. You all saw the difference.
I didn't want Souray back. What he showed defensively here was comparable to the play of a Midget CC player.
Beauchemin has been to the cup, I forgot to mention that. It's a great point that favors him.

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Originally Posted by Subbanator76 View Post
Point is, offensively, Beauchemin is MILES ahead of Komisarek. His outlet passes are miles ahead of Komi's. It's not even discutable. He has about 60 more shots on net than Komisarek per year. Defensively, some may argue Komisarek is better, but certainly not miles ahead. Both are pretty much comparable.
I agree that his outlet pass is better, I said it in my post.
As for shots, I was going to write them but I didn't because Beauchemin plays on PP and Komi doesn't.

We could also bring up the fact that Beauchemin has almost twice as many shots, on top of PP action, yet only has 2Goals (2 less than Komi).

So depending how you look at those stats, you can sway it on either side.
But in the end, Beauchemin does get the most chances.

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Originally Posted by Subbanator76 View Post
You can't argue that Beauchemin is as good as Komisarek offensively. Stats don't tell everything. If you're watching the playoffs this year, you can see it.
I didn't say he's as good.
I said if we look at their point totals via Ice Time, PP Ice Time and Shots, one can argue Komi has about the same points while getting much lesser chances.

That being said, Beauchemin has the better offensive upside, that's obvious.

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You're right.
Yes, I am.

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Originally Posted by Subbanator76 View Post
I don't agree. Beauchemin will likely be less expensive and fits our needs the best. Our transition game was awful last year and we badly needed D-men able to man the point on the PP. While Beauchemin isn't an expert, he still is miles ahead Gorges, O'Byrne, Komisarek or Bouillon at this. He'd be great on the 2nd wave.
I'm surprise you disagree because I pretty much said the same thing. I said it'll pretty much boil down to the salary.
If Komi agrees to a 4M deal, there's no way I'm passing up on that.
At the salary, we could easily fit Beauchemin with us as well.

Signing just one of them won't make our D that much better. We need to sign 2 Dmen that will be part of our top 4.

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05-11-2009, 01:49 PM
  #79
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People would say that because they don't remember the Komi from last year. Haven't you noticed the "what have you done for me lately" attitude around here? People ALWAYS remember the most recent. Well, that kinda attitude means you change your mind in an instant. I bet if you asked people who they would prefer last year between Ryder and oh, say, Petr Sykora, they would say Sykora. Well, Sykora's been benched in the playoffs this year and Ryder's proven that he is, in fact, quite good. Just because people don't remember how good Komi is doesn't mean he wasn't that good.
I agree, Komisarek can bring a lot to this team. I would like us to re-signed him for sure but if I had to choose one, Id pick Beauchemin. I understand what youre saying, my opinion however is not based on what he did last year but who I believe is the better player. I often defend our players. I defended Kovalev when people wanted to trade him for Sykora etc.. So please dont include me in that group

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05-11-2009, 01:49 PM
  #80
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So what are we supposed to do? According to you, anyone who we sign will be overpaid. Why should we overpay to get a forward rather than a defenceman? Defence wins championships. Every single ****ing time. Defence contributes to offense. Nobody who ever skimps on D gets away with it. Look at TB. This team will nowhere if they don't spend on defence. Hamrlik and Markov are just not enough.
Dude, you're preaching to the choir, i started a thread a few weeks ago about how we should focus and building our defence first, and the defence wins, and so on and so forth. I just don't see Komisarek being a high-priced guy. If he signs the contract that he deserves, which is the exact contract Robyn Regher got (5 years/20 mil), then we'll have nothing to argue about. All i'm saying is that this 5-6 million contract talk is ridiculous, especially coming off his worst year.

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05-11-2009, 01:52 PM
  #81
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And all those teams are doing great with all those players. You can throw Regehr in there as well.

I will say it again.. Komisarek and the others mentioned above, their skill sets are overrated. They are not really necessary anymore in the NNHL.
Komi can move the puck fine. He's only had a problem with that in the last year. But nobody can remember past that

The fact that you think Regehr is overpaid is the biggest joke out there. Regehr was the Flames' best d-man all season and entirely worth his salary.

I love how we're supposed to assume all d-men are overpaid according to you. Fact is, any team who doesn't have a solid D will suffer. This team will finish in bottom 5 without a solid defense. Komi is one of the top D out there. We need someone like him or someone comparable.

Defensive ability is important and it helps contribute to the offense. The less time you spend in your zone, the more you spend in the other teams' zone. So Komi is valuable in this way. Plus he does have a good first pass when he plays well. Do you really think getting inferior d-men who can move the puck but who are devoid in other ways is better? How would you like the players to get trapped in their own zone all the time, getting outmuscled by the other teams' forwards? How are you supposed to score then? Fact is, you look for the best players available, and you don't discriminate because of their playing style. I would love to have Ryane Clowe on this team, but I would just as much love Martin Havlat. Pick skill, not playing style.

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05-11-2009, 01:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I didn't want Souray back. What he showed defensively here was comparable to the play of a Midget CC player.
Beauchemin has been to the cup, I forgot to mention that. It's a great point that favors him.



I agree that his outlet pass is better, I said it in my post.
As for shots, I was going to write them but I didn't because Beauchemin plays on PP and Komi doesn't.

We could also bring up the fact that Beauchemin has almost twice as many shots, on top of PP action, yet only has 2Goals (2 less than Komi).

So depending how you look at those stats, you can sway it on either side.
But in the end, Beauchemin does get the most chances.



I didn't say he's as good.
I said if we look at their point totals via Ice Time, PP Ice Time and Shots, one can argue Komi has about the same points while getting much lesser chances.

That being said, Beauchemin has the better offensive upside, that's obvious.



Yes, I am.



I'm surprise you disagree because I pretty much said the same thing. I said it'll pretty much boil down to the salary.
If Komi agrees to a 4M deal, there's no way I'm passing up on that.
At the salary, we could easily fit Beauchemin with us as well.

Signing just one of them won't make our D that much better. We need to sign 2 Dmen that will be part of our top 4.
It's painfully obvious. Of course you re-sign him if he's willing to take 4M long term. But I doubt he will. His recent declaration makes me wonder if he really likes it here.

Personnally, I know people HATE to hear this, but I think that beating he took against Lucic is a potential career turning point for him, and not in a good way. After this, he wasn't nearly as mean, as physical, or as respected around the league. And he's thinking way too much in situation where he has to defend his teammates. I love Komi. I really do. He's a mean, all-heart player. But if he can't get the respect he got last year throughout the league, I'm scared that paying him big bucks could turn into one of the biggest mistakes ever made.

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05-11-2009, 01:56 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Dude, you're preaching to the choir, i started a thread a few weeks ago about how we should focus and building our defence first, and the defence wins, and so on and so forth. I just don't see Komisarek being a high-priced guy. If he signs the contract that he deserves, which is the exact contract Robyn Regher got (5 years/20 mil), then we'll have nothing to argue about. All i'm saying is that this 5-6 million contract talk is ridiculous, especially coming off his worst year.
Except the price of defencemen keeps going up, and Komi is one of the best d-men available. Regehr is somewhat of a bargain IMO. So what are we supposed to do, huh? It's lose cap space or lose games. The other d-men are going to cost just as much. I won't be shocked to see Beauchemin get a big payday. Or Oduya. Or Zanon. Or anyone else. Just because nobody talked about their contracts doesn't mean they won't get as overpaid as Komi. You know they will. Did anyone see Jeff Finger, Brian Campbell or Wade Redden coming?

Now, I don't mind paying for a good player. It just has to be a good player. But, really, how many D-men better than Komisarek are available? And try to remember how these players played prior to this year. Also remember that Beauchemin isn't perfect. I watched him play and read the comments. Anaheim fans weren't always happy with him, either. Easy to look at other teams' players and say they're better than yours because you're frustrated.

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05-11-2009, 02:00 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Subbanator76 View Post
It's painfully obvious. Of course you re-sign him if he's willing to take 4M long term. But I doubt he will. His recent declaration makes me wonder if he really likes it here.

Personnally, I know people HATE to hear this, but I think that beating he took against Lucic is a potential career turning point for him, and not in a good way. After this, he wasn't nearly as mean, as physical, or as respected around the league. And he's thinking way too much in situation where he has to defend his teammates. I love Komi. I really do. He's a mean, all-heart player. But if he can't get the respect he got last year throughout the league, I'm scared that paying him big bucks could turn into one of the biggest mistakes ever made.
What declaration is that?..

All I heard is a little internet rumor and an ''assistant GM'' talking crap..
Personally, I think he'll re-sign here.

Same thing happened last year with A.Kost. Rumors about him going back to Russia, getting a deal close to 5M/year.

After some time off, I'm sure he'll be looking to turn the page and come back strong next year.


As for the Lucic fight, I think that just made him realize he needed to take some boxing lessons. I don't think people have less respect for him around the league. If you try to come in the zone on his side, he'll stick lay one hard on you.

This season was a horrible one, he'll be back strong next year.

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05-11-2009, 02:02 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
What declaration is that?..

All I heard is a little internet rumor and an ''assistant GM'' talking crap..
Personally, I think he'll re-sign here.

Same thing happened last year with A.Kost. Rumors about him going back to Russia, getting a deal close to 5M/year.

After some time off, I'm sure he'll be looking to turn the page and come back strong next year.


As for the Lucic fight, I think that just made him realize he needed to take some boxing lessons. I don't think people have less respect for him around the league. If you try to come in the zone on his side, he'll stick lay one hard on you.

This season was a horrible one, he'll be back strong next year.
American players tend to be bad fighters, anyways. I'm sure he just caught up in the emotion of the game when he decided to fight. Komi knows that he should either get better at fighting or stop dropping the gloves.

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05-11-2009, 02:09 PM
  #86
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I'll repeat this again for the umpteenth time: there is no precedent for a shutdown d-man getting more than 4.25 per. It would be reckless on Gainey's part (especially since the cap will drop quite a bit in 2010) to pay Komisarek more than that. Some team out there, however, will give him big money because they A) Have the cap space B) Will be looking to make a statement to their fans C)Are huge fans of Komisarek and are willing to take the risk that he will bounce back

Personally i think its mostly a case of bad timing and Gainey's extremely weird M.O. of not negotiating with his players during the season. Gainey could have saved some dough if he had tried signing Komi to an extension during the season. Now he's forced to make a much tougher decision. He has also has to hope that Komi is a loyal guy and will not try to break the bank the first chance he gets.

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05-11-2009, 02:12 PM
  #87
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Hits is not an accurate stat. Bell Center is known to give a lot of hits. Most of the time, Habs get 40 hits at BC while they cant reach 30 in other building. Gorges who is 8th in Hits on this team would be 3rd with Anaheim. Our top3 would be their top3Can you really say that we are tougher and hit more than Anaheim?


Defending a teammate is not facewashing everybody. The last fight of him vs Lucic was not for the team but for his pride. And again, it was a complete domination from Lucic.

I pay Beauchemin for what he can while I pay Komi for what he could do, since we dont know if he will be back to is old self.

That said, I would take both. If we start the season with Gorges as our 5th defenceman, the team is in good shape.

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05-11-2009, 02:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Komi can move the puck fine. He's only had a problem with that in the last year. But nobody can remember past that

The fact that you think Regehr is overpaid is the biggest joke out there. Regehr was the Flames' best d-man all season and entirely worth his salary.

I love how we're supposed to assume all d-men are overpaid according to you. Fact is, any team who doesn't have a solid D will suffer. This team will finish in bottom 5 without a solid defense. Komi is one of the top D out there. We need someone like him or someone comparable.

Defensive ability is important and it helps contribute to the offense. The less time you spend in your zone, the more you spend in the other teams' zone. So Komi is valuable in this way. Plus he does have a good first pass when he plays well. Do you really think getting inferior d-men who can move the puck but who are devoid in other ways is better? How would you like the players to get trapped in their own zone all the time, getting outmuscled by the other teams' forwards? How are you supposed to score then? Fact is, you look for the best players available, and you don't discriminate because of their playing style. I would love to have Ryane Clowe on this team, but I would just as much love Martin Havlat. Pick skill, not playing style.
Keep yammering away about how Komi is a good puck mover, which he is not. He is horrible. Hot potatoe is not the term to describe the puck on his stick. It's more like an active granade on speed.

Regehr is not overpaid. In fact, he makes exactly what he should be making. My complaint is that Komi is looking to make Markov money, which is crazy. At a good price, Komisarek is a nice to have, but let's not go crazy here.

And pick skill is what I want. Komisarek doesn't have any.

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05-11-2009, 02:16 PM
  #89
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no they didnt.

that said id take both at 3.5 -3.7 a year

which is what they are worth but both will sign for more

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05-11-2009, 02:20 PM
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Keep yammering away about how Komi is a good puck mover, which he is not. He is horrible. Hot potatoe is not the term to describe the puck on his stick. It's more like an active granade on speed.

Regehr is not overpaid. In fact, he makes exactly what he should be making. My complaint is that Komi is looking to make Markov money, which is crazy. At a good price, Komisarek is a nice to have, but let's not go crazy here.

And pick skill is what I want. Komisarek doesn't have any.
Where and when did Komi say what he wants in terms of salary? Not once, has
he come out and mentioned any kind of amount.

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05-11-2009, 02:23 PM
  #91
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Where and when did Komi say what he wants in terms of salary? Not once, has
he come out and mentioned any kind of amount.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter how he wants, but how much teams are willing to give him. Fans of Komi in Montreal just have to hope he's not all about the money and wants to win here.

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05-11-2009, 02:25 PM
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Komisarek, hands down.
I don't get all the hype about Beauchemin, he's nothing spectacular.

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05-11-2009, 02:30 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Keep yammering away about how Komi is a good puck mover, which he is not. He is horrible. Hot potatoe is not the term to describe the puck on his stick. It's more like an active granade on speed.

Regehr is not overpaid. In fact, he makes exactly what he should be making. My complaint is that Komi is looking to make Markov money, which is crazy. At a good price, Komisarek is a nice to have, but let's not go crazy here.

And pick skill is what I want. Komisarek doesn't have any.
Except the price of d-men keeps going up. Regehr was signed a while ago.

And Komi is not horrible. Two things: defense is a skill, first of all. Second of all, Komi was able to move the puck fine last year. No, he wasn't good this year, but he was fine before.

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05-11-2009, 02:36 PM
  #94
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Except the price of d-men keeps going up. Regehr was signed a while ago.

And Komi is not horrible. Two things: defense is a skill, first of all. Second of all, Komi was able to move the puck fine last year. No, he wasn't good this year, but he was fine before.
Prices keep going up, that's fine. In that case, let's get a real defenseman who can contribute more than MK.

Komi was not fine at moving the puck last year. I dont know why you keep saying that. Maybe the forwards were more willing to come back last year so his risk was limited, but he is still very limited on how far his outlet passes can go. He is no Markov that's for sure.

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05-11-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Subbanator76 View Post
You've got to be right I guess.

No, really, unlike you and most people on this board, I'm watching the game beyond my homerism.
You like to make a lot of assumptions.

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05-11-2009, 02:48 PM
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He is no Markov that's for sure.
Well, you can't even fill a top-6 with the D-men who are in Markov's class where it comes to outlet passes.

I'm not saying Komisarek is a good puck-mover (though he's better than what he's shown this year), and I'm all for puck-moving D-men, but the standard for D-men #2-6 needs to be somewhat below Markov level if we want to fill those slots...

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05-11-2009, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Prices keep going up, that's fine. In that case, let's get a real defenseman who can contribute more than MK.

Komi was not fine at moving the puck last year. I dont know why you keep saying that. Maybe the forwards were more willing to come back last year so his risk was limited, but he is still very limited on how far his outlet passes can go. He is no Markov that's for sure.
Well, there's your problem! Of course, Komi isn't as good as Markov. There are about 10 defencemen in the league as good as him. Markov is an elite d-man, that's why.

Komi can contribute plenty to a hockey team. The Komi from 07-08 was really useful and, if you can't see that, then you're blind. I'd like to know which UFA defencemen are CLEARLY better than Komi.

Beauchemin has had his struggles. Ohlund has struggled at times. He's not the top D in Vancouver anymore and is behind both Bieksa, Sami Salo and Willie Mitchell in effectiveness. Oduya is going nowhere. So what options do the Habs have exactly? It's always easy to bash your own team, but you look elsewhere around the league and it's no better. It seems as if other players are better, but all these guys have their flaws, too. You're being way too hard on Komi. The reality is that not everyone will be a perfect d-man like Markov.

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05-11-2009, 03:08 PM
  #98
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Depends, I'd sign Komi for 4.5m/yr or Beauchemin 3.5m/yr or less. I voted Komi.

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05-11-2009, 03:08 PM
  #99
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Well, there's your problem! Of course, Komi isn't as good as Markov. There are about 10 defencemen in the league as good as him. Markov is an elite d-man, that's why.

Komi can contribute plenty to a hockey team. The Komi from 07-08 was really useful and, if you can't see that, then you're blind. I'd like to know which UFA defencemen are CLEARLY better than Komi.

Beauchemin has had his struggles. Ohlund has struggled at times. He's not the top D in Vancouver anymore and is behind both Bieksa, Sami Salo and Willie Mitchell in effectiveness. Oduya is going nowhere. So what options do the Habs have exactly? It's always easy to bash your own team, but you look elsewhere around the league and it's no better. It seems as if other players are better, but all these guys have their flaws, too. You're being way too hard on Komi. The reality is that not everyone will be a perfect d-man like Markov.
I think AH's point is that if we're to overpay for Komi, might as well chip in a couple more Millions and go after JayBo.

JayBo at 8M or even 9M is better than Komi at 6M.
Signing Jaybo that much and then Beauchemin at 4M, is still a possibility.
O'Byrne would be our 5th pairing with Gorges.
Then we can add an insurance D like Breezer again at the minimum pay.
This would give us a total of 26-27M spent on D, and if our top4 is Markov/Beauchemin and Jaybo/Hamrlik, I don't mind spending less on our forwards at all.


Last edited by Kriss E: 05-11-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
05-11-2009, 03:11 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think AH's point is that if we're to overpay for Komi, might as well chip in a couple more Millions and go after JayBo.

JayBo at 8M or even 9M is better than Komi at 6M.
That would be fine if J-Bo actually wanted to come here. I just don't see that happening. J-Bo is known as one of the shyest and most private players in the league. How do you think that's going to work out in Montreal?

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