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Why Schenn isn't untouchable - Kane

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:09 AM
  #26
Hounsy
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Dave Chyzowski > Adam Foote

??

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by AlienWorkShop View Post
So, with the 5th overall pick, we're supposed to expect a player of equal quality to 1st overall pick Patrick Kane?

What the hell is wrong with you people?


(and with all due respect to Nikita Filatov, he's no Patrick Kane either)
Think you missed the point.....Tavares is compared to Kane.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:17 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Not sure but how did you propose grabbing the #5 pick?

If we use last year as an example:

Is this your proposal? 7th. overall, 2nd. rounder, 3rd. rounder, Tlusty = Duchene?

One would hope it is either Schenn and Kaberle (+ 2nd. whatever) or 7th. overall and Kaberle (+ 2nd. whatever) otherwise it would be hoped Burke would just say the cost is too high.
It wouldn't even take that much.... the talent drop off from 7 to 5 in this year's draft is almost non-existent. The only thing meaningful is the ability to jump Phoenix for Tampa to get Cowen.

As has been reported, apparently the offer was the #2 for Schenn and Kaberle which burke laughed at (as he should have). Even Kaberle and the 7th overall is too much. If they decide that Cowen isn't teh guy they want, then the proposal would be something like Kaberle, Tlusty, 2nd rounder for 2nd overall.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:17 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Think you missed the point.....Tavares is compared to Kane.
I'm responding to people disappointed that we didn't get a gamebreaker in Schenn.

WE ONLY GOT AN ADAM FOOTE AT #5?! OH NO!

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:20 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Top 6:

Brown, Kopitar, Stoll, Percell, Frolov, Calder

Other than Calder their top 6 is solid.

Kings bottom 6, and goaltending sucks.

Maybe they take Pony instead of Stajan? Pony replaces Calder in the top 6.
That top 6 is solid? Calder (whos a UFA btw), Stoll, Purcell are guys I wouldn't pencil in as good top 6 players. Frolov and Brown are talented but likely better suited for the second line. The Kings need a top line winger, I really don't see why that is so diffcult to see. Stajan is not needed at all in LA, he would be a 4th liner at best there. Now when you mention Poni that makes a little more sense but I still don't see that much interest. I think the Kings move that pick straight up for a top line LW

Kopitar - Brown
Frolov - Stoll - Williams
Moller - Handzus - Simmonds
Purcell - Richardson - Ivanans

EX:Boyle, Zieler, Cliche, Clune, Westgarth, Lewis

The likes of Purcell and Moller are too unproven to give them to line mins and the Kings would benefit from someone who can put the puck in the net on a consistent basis. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gaborik sign in LA.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:23 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienWorkShop View Post
So, with the 5th overall pick, we're supposed to expect a player of equal quality to 1st overall pick Patrick Kane?

What the hell is wrong with you people?


(and with all due respect to Nikita Filatov, he's no Patrick Kane either)
Filatov has all the tools to be as good as Kane. Kane was drafted first overall in a weak draft year, Filatov was taken 6th in a very strong draft year and the fact that Nik was Russian didn't help either.

Filatov has loads of talent and is definantly top line material in the near future.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:34 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienWorkShop View Post
So, with the 5th overall pick, we're supposed to expect a player of equal quality to 1st overall pick Patrick Kane?

What the hell is wrong with you people?


(and with all due respect to Nikita Filatov, he's no Patrick Kane either)
Sounds like Schenn would be moved to get the first overall pick.

Schenn's a solid D-man and he'll be a strong defender for many years. I don't see him as much of a game changer. Defensive D-men just don't do it on a consistent basis. This Hawks series is a great example. Willie Mitchell used to be considered an elite shutdown d-man, but he wasn't at all this past series. Phillips and Hannan were the same way. Most of these highly regarded shutdown d-men come into high praise for a short span, then settle back to reality as strong d-men who lack the ability to be a consistent force. Even guys like Adam Foote can be put into this category. On the other hand, star offensive players seem to be able to do more on a consistent basis. Even if the teams lose, they are a constant threat.

I like Schenn, but he shouldn't be untouchable. He should be difficult to obtain.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:37 AM
  #33
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With all the talk of Vinny or Tavares, etc. it wouldn't surprise me for Burke to go in an opposite direction.....what about Kovalchuk?

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:39 AM
  #34
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Schenn is a unique and rare talent. He's better than either Foote or Regehr were at his age. He's not a typical "stay at home defenceman" and should not be branded that way.

When Schenn is in his prime, I don't think there will be another player in the league like him. He'll be one of a kind. The league is full of offensive stars however.

And I can think of plenty of times where a shut-down defenceman has turned the momentum of a series.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:39 AM
  #35
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Funny, I thought the Vancouver game highlighted the need for a solid defense. Instead of relying on your top scorer to pull something out of his ass, it might be more effective to stop the other team from scoring 7 goals .

p.s.- New Jersey Devils
p.p.s - Schenn is 19
p.p.p.s - Berger! That's who we are talking about...

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:44 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Filatov has all the tools to be as good as Kane. Kane was drafted first overall in a weak draft year, Filatov was taken 6th in a very strong draft year and the fact that Nik was Russian didn't help either.

Filatov has loads of talent and is definantly top line material in the near future.
Yeah, and Schenn could become the next Scott Stevens.

It's all potential at this point, while Kane is looking like a sure thing.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:46 AM
  #37
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Yeah, cause Tavares really rose to the occasion this year against Windsor

Yes the Leafs need a game breaker type forward, but there is no guarantee that Tavares is that player. Just like there is no guarantee that Stefanovich isn't.

Oh right, cause being drafted high automatically makes you a "game-breaker". Both teams last night had two high first rounders on their team, only one pair were game breakers. This theory obviously explains players like Datsyuk, Savard, and Getzlaf...oh wait.

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Old
05-12-2009, 09:57 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
Yeah, cause Tavares really rose to the occasion this year against Windsor

Yes the Leafs need a game breaker type forward, but there is no guarantee that Tavares is that player. Just like there is no guarantee that Stefanovich isn't.

Oh right, cause being drafted high automatically makes you a "game-breaker". Both teams last night had two high first rounders on their team, only one pair were game breakers. This theory obviously explains players like Datsyuk, Savard, and Getzlaf...oh wait.

Sooo.... what your saying is we should go afyer Tavares, but also keep our late picks.


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Old
05-12-2009, 10:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army View Post
Schenn is a unique and rare talent. He's better than either Foote or Regehr were at his age. He's not a typical "stay at home defenceman" and should not be branded that way.

When Schenn is in his prime, I don't think there will be another player in the league like him. He'll be one of a kind. The league is full of offensive stars however.

And I can think of plenty of times where a shut-down defenceman has turned the momentum of a series.
I agree. He is a born leader too. I said it before and i guess i will again. Schenn is closer to Scott Stevens than Foote or Regehr.

I'm betting he gets meaner/bigger as he gets more expierenced.

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:32 AM
  #40
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Luke is the man, but I would include him a package for an elite level prospect. That being said, is Tavares worth that risk? He has more question marks around him than any of the first overalls for most of this decade. I'd hate to put all our eggs into that basket.

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:33 AM
  #41
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The Hawks leading point getter is the 26th overall pick Havlat. Substantially better than the #1 overall Stefan of his draft year and solid proof that you don't trade your best D prospect for a "maybe". They desperately need a Kane, not a Tavares and that is the problem. I like the idea of going from #7 to #5 because there are better forwards to be had there and the cost won't be prohibitive but at this point Schenn is closer to being Foote than Tavares is to any NHL player. Giving "whatever it takes" might make sense for Kane or Toews now but would you mortgage your future for Staal or Turris?

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:35 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
I agree. He is a born leader too. I said it before and i guess i will again. Schenn is closer to Scott Stevens than Foote or Regehr.

I'm betting he gets meaner/bigger as he gets more expierenced.
I really don't see the Stevens comparison at all. Stevens was way more offensive (25 points as a rookie, 45 the following season, and started at a slightly younger age in the NHL) , was more of a force in open ice hits than against the boards and was somewhat "scary" to play against. Schenn seems more like a strong d-man who won;t run out of position to take your head off. Less scary, less offensive, but could be better positionally.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:00 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I really don't see the Stevens comparison at all. Stevens was way more offensive (25 points as a rookie, 45 the following season, and started at a slightly younger age in the NHL) , was more of a force in open ice hits than against the boards and was somewhat "scary" to play against. Schenn seems more like a strong d-man who won;t run out of position to take your head off. Less scary, less offensive, but could be better positionally.
He layed out some pretty nasty hits this past year and once he gets a handful of rivalries going with certain players, the nasty should come out more.

Stevens was in St Louis in the run and gun era also. it was different what ever the case. He seemed to want to get more involved there for awhile in the mid season time frame but i think Wilson reeled him in.

The offense is there,but the shot isn't yet. Whick kind of was my biggest surprise from him. His shot needs alot of work and imo its not very good at all.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:02 AM
  #44
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If it wasn't for Pat Kane's big game yesterday he was pretty much not a large impact. The one time I saw him lead his team was yesterday. He was under a point per game before that.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:03 AM
  #45
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Don't think for a fact that I want Tavares, impact high players but we just have to stay patient like the Hawks were.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:05 AM
  #46
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Schenn should not, and will not, be traded.

He intimidates.
He takes to coaching well.
He is respected.

He brings to the table something that few prospects do at his age - confidence and leadership.

If we were ever to sell the farm for a single prospect, I would be more inclined to go after Hall next year.

We won't be a very good team for a few years, and sooner or later, some of these perennial bottom feeders like LA, NYI and PHO have to get better, so their picks won't be secure.

Remember, all of the teams below us are going to be drafting stars. I can see NYI and Tampa being considerably better immediately after this draft. Not playoff better, but competitive. This will leave teams like Toronto to fill the vaccuum left by all the up and coming teams.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:06 AM
  #47
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Full on agree.

When I was pissed the Leafs drafted Schenn, it's because I was envisioning Chicago's Toews and Kane duo. Imagine if we had drafted Filatov and traded up for a Duchene/Tavares. The ACC would be rocking with excitement. For now we have 'great defensive coverage' to look forward to.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:08 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
I agree. He is a born leader too. I said it before and i guess i will again. Schenn is closer to Scott Stevens than Foote or Regehr.

I'm betting he gets meaner/bigger as he gets more expierenced.
Scott Stevens was an elite offensive defenseman too, having scored 20+ goals, almost 80 points while being the defensive presence he was.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:09 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If Tavares was as good as Kane I don't think that there would be any doubt about who would be picked first, there was never any question about Patrick's skating and he has everything else.
Except when the Hawks were deciding between vanRiemsdyk, Kane and Turris on draft day.

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05-12-2009, 11:13 AM
  #50
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Except when the Hawks were deciding between vanRiemsdyk, Kane and Turris on draft day.
Sure they were.

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