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Why Schenn isn't untouchable - Kane

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Old
05-12-2009, 12:11 PM
  #76
Drew75
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
I agree. He is a born leader too. I said it before and i guess i will again. Schenn is closer to Scott Stevens than Foote or Regehr.

I'm betting he gets meaner/bigger as he gets more expierenced.
Picture Adam Foote hitting like Scott Stevens. THAT is what I see in Schenn - and while it's not as "sexy" as a flashy offensive player, I think it's just as valuable. There's a reason Adam Foote was always selected for those stacked Team Canada's ...

You need all the pieces to be successful. In the playoffs a key shot block, shutting down the other teams top line, or a bone crushing hit at the right time can all help decide a series just as much as a flashy offensive player. Anyone who believes differently has probably never played in a big game before....

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05-12-2009, 12:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
Picture Adam Foote hitting like Scott Stevens. THAT is what I see in Schenn - and while it's not as "sexy" as a flashy offensive player, I think it's just as valuable. There's a reason Adam Foote was always selected for those stacked Team Canada's ...

You need all the pieces to be successful. In the playoffs a key shot block, shutting down the other teams top line, or a bone crushing hit at the right time can all help decide a series just as much as a flashy offensive player. Anyone who believes differently has probably never played in a big game before....
Also key to keep in mind the role he played on Canada was similar to what he played in the NHL. He was never really able to play at an elite level where he changed the game on his own. He kept up and played into the system, but he wasn't a game breaker. Playing on team Canada was and is a great honour, but the Avs were upgrading their D, or trying to do so, when he was being counted on as their go-to D-man. Blake, Ozlinish, Bourque were brought in so he could have a lesser role.

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05-12-2009, 12:17 PM
  #78
NoamHemsky
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Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
Picture Adam Foote hitting like Scott Stevens. THAT is what I see in Schenn - and while it's not as "sexy" as a flashy offensive player, I think it's just as valuable. There's a reason Adam Foote was always selected for those stacked Team Canada's ...

You need all the pieces to be successful. In the playoffs a key shot block, shutting down the other teams top line, or a bone crushing hit at the right time can all help decide a series just as much as a flashy offensive player. Anyone who believes differently has probably never played in a big game before....
And don't forget leadership, Drew.

Schenn is captain material, imo.

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05-12-2009, 12:19 PM
  #79
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Yeah he may not be a game breaker offensively. But he can be a game breaker with a hit, or a block. He has intangibles that a flashy forward may not. He has shown flashes of leadership quality. You have to vary your draft picks. Leafs will most likely pick a forward this year.

You build from the net out, and you need defense and leadership to win. Again, it does take a little patience to see a defensive d-man go top 5 and not a flashy forward, but I think it's worth it in the long run.

And don't forget that he'll probably/hopefully be a PREMIER shut down guy. Not Hal Gill or Milan Jurcina.

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05-12-2009, 12:25 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Not really a news article, more opinion but written by Berger:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Howar...avares/3/21162




Comes right down to why I wasn't thrilled about drafting a defensive d-man with a lottery pick.

Adam Foote - lottery pick? Ouch!!!
You always build from the back, Berger is throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Typical bush league reporting but I expect nothing less from Berger

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05-12-2009, 12:27 PM
  #81
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I think what Berger is trying to point out is that right now the Leafs roster has nobody that resembles the offensive skillset of Kane and that Tavares would be a nice step in that direction.

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05-12-2009, 12:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
I'm with you. As much as I like Luke Schenn, I am still one of the few around here that thinks we should have chosen Filatov.

I still can't understand why people are opposed to adding a player that could potentially be one of the best players in the game? I am all for having good defensive help but not at the expense of a potential superstar.

This is Toronto though, I guess it's not that surprising.

Teams should be built from the back out, i beleive that was the logic in moving up to select Schenn.

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05-12-2009, 12:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
You always build from the back, Berger is throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Typical bush league reporting but I expect nothing less from Berger
None of Chicago, Washington and Pittsburgh are built from the net out. Pittsburgh's main strength is two generational centermen, Washington's is gifted offense all throughout their lineup and Chicago has scoring everywhere sprinked with some good young defensemen.

Vancouver, on the other hand, is built from the net out, and they suck.

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05-12-2009, 12:46 PM
  #84
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None of Chicago, Washington and Pittsburgh are built from the net out. Pittsburgh's main strength is two generational centermen, Washington's is gifted offense all throughout their lineup and Chicago has scoring everywhere sprinked with some good young defensemen.

Vancouver, on the other hand, is built from the net out, and they suck.
This is what i've been trying to portray!

Teams that are winning are build from the front back.

Look at the Hawks, their top 3 lines are unstoppable (and their 3rd line is better than our 1st line)

The Wings are extremely deep as well, same with the Canes and Bruins.

Now they all have pretty good defense as well, but their main strength is built from their Centerman back. The way a champion is built!

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05-12-2009, 12:54 PM
  #85
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One thing I don't particularly understand is why fans believe Schenn has all this amazing growth potential. His skating and footspeed isn't fantastic, but they think it can easily be improved upon, but at the same time, they point to Tavares and criticize his lack of footspeed. They think he can magically add an offensive dimension, when all indications are that Schenn is weak on the puck and has very little offensive imagination. Offensive talent isn't something you can teach. I'm skeptical and I think we'll be lucky to see an Adam Foote Jr.
One, I think the knock on Tavares' skating is ridiculous, and I don't see it as something that will hinder him at all. That, and he's already improved his skating markedly since he started his junior hockey career.

I don't see Schenns skating as a problem at all. He was exposed when he was moved to left D, because he's never played that position until this year. Not many rookies are asked to move out of position, and still handle it well.

I guess we differ on his upside, but I think he's already on the path to an Adam Foote, if he just simply progresses the way his is. If he goes above and beyond that, we have a top pairing D man, who will be Norris mentionable at some time.

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05-12-2009, 12:57 PM
  #86
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Scott Stevens was an elite offensive defenseman too, having scored 20+ goals, almost 80 points while being the defensive presence he was.
When Stevens was scoring all those points, he didn't have the shut-down reputation that he got later in his career.

In the last 10 years of his career, which happened to be his most memorable and arguably most successful, Scott Stevens was a 20-30 point defenceman.

Stevens certainly was an impact player as a 30 point scorer. There's no question. A much bigger impact player than Patrick Kane is.

Schenn is not a carbon copy of Stevens, and he certainly won't end up with 900 career points as Stevens did. But he could have a similar type of impact on the team.

Saying a 30 point, heart and soul defenseman can't be an impact player is ridiculous and absolutely untrue. Stevens proved that year after year.

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05-12-2009, 12:58 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
I'm with you. As much as I like Luke Schenn, I am still one of the few around here that thinks we should have chosen Filatov.

I still can't understand why people are opposed to adding a player that could potentially be one of the best players in the game? I am all for having good defensive help but not at the expense of a potential superstar.

This is Toronto though, I guess it's not that surprising.
i aggreee i was like sweet went down to 5 they can grab filatov. then when they didnt i was like why

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05-12-2009, 01:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Playing on team Canada was and is a great honour, but the Avs were upgrading their D, or trying to do so, when he was being counted on as their go-to D-man. Blake, Ozlinish, Bourque were brought in so he could have a lesser role.
I think you may be confusing upgrading your D with upgrading your O.

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05-12-2009, 01:03 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I think you may be confusing upgrading your D with upgrading your O.
You mean those guys weren't top pairing D-men? I'm pretty confident they were. Offensive d-men who displaced Foote on the back-end relegating him to a secondary role on those cup winners.

Those players were solid offensively and most (Ozzy is the exception) were strong in their end. These were the top pairing guys for the Avs. Not Foote. Foote's always been better in a secondary role, most defensive d-men are.

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05-12-2009, 01:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Red Forman View Post
If it was just Luke Schenn, or Luke Schenn, plus Kaberle, I would be fine with the deal. Schenn is a favourite of mine, but I'm by no means blind to the fact of how special a player like John Tavares is. But I consistently see bantied about Kaberle, Schenn, 7th plus for Tavares. When we get into that territory, it stops becoming a trade, and starts becoming a ****** of our assets.
Yes, totally agree:

Kaberle + 1 of (Schenn or 7th.) sweetener 1 of (Stajan/White/25+ year old depth/2nd.)

but not

Kaberle + Schenn + 7th.

Rather not trade up at all and use all the Leafs pick and see if Kaberle / Kubina can land a late 1st. rounder.

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Old
05-12-2009, 01:38 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Yes, totally agree:

Kaberle + 1 of (Schenn or 7th.) sweetener 1 of (Stajan/White/25+ year old depth/2nd.)

but not

Kaberle + Schenn + 7th.

Rather not trade up at all and use all the Leafs pick and see if Kaberle / Kubina can land a late 1st. rounder.
I would be happy with trading down from 7th, land a couple more second rounders in that scenario, and hopefully add more potential top six forwards. Suck it up again next year, and hopefully be in Hall/Khabanov (sp) territory.

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05-12-2009, 01:42 PM
  #92
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Berger is an idiot

We can draft our own Patrick Kane this year in Jordan Schroeder

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05-12-2009, 01:53 PM
  #93
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I'm going to go on record saying that if we trade Schenn, we will regret it. Deeply.

Now I understand what many of you are saying and I feel it too: Boy would it be nice to have an offensive superstar. Yup, it would. But say we trade Schenn, and by some miracle it all works out and we get that star in Tavares. A few years down the road we'd probably be whining for a defenceman like Schenn. And who would be leading the screaming and crying charge? Of course, Mr. Howard Berger. Its what he does.

All I'm saying is that we should be thankful we have Schenn and be patient. First we see what Burke does on draft day and beyond (free agency, etc.) to see if he can secure us an offensive star and help rebuild the team. Keep in mind the Blackhawks were rebuilding for quite a few years. We've had years of mediocrity but this is our first year of "rebuild".

Man do I miss Doug Gilmour.

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05-12-2009, 01:58 PM
  #94
NoamHemsky
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Berger is an idiot

We can draft our own Patrick Kane this year in Jordan Schroeder
Schroeder is certainly an interesting player.

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05-12-2009, 02:02 PM
  #95
NoamHemsky
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Originally Posted by Spasmic Dan View Post
I'm going to go on record saying that if we trade Schenn, we will regret it. Deeply.

Now I understand what many of you are saying and I feel it too: Boy would it be nice to have an offensive superstar. Yup, it would. But say we trade Schenn, and by some miracle it all works out and we get that star in Tavares. A few years down the road we'd probably be whining for a defenceman like Schenn. And who would be leading the screaming and crying charge? Of course, Mr. Howard Berger. Its what he does.

All I'm saying is that we should be thankful we have Schenn and be patient. First we see what Burke does on draft day and beyond (free agency, etc.) to see if he can secure us an offensive star and help rebuild the team. Keep in mind the Blackhawks were rebuilding for quite a few years. We've had years of mediocrity but this is our first year of "rebuild".

Man do I miss Doug Gilmour.
Honestly, Dan. I don't see Burke moving Schenn.

I watched an interview with him and Andi Petrillo and he mentioned that he wishes he could be the one to take credit for trading up and drafting Schenn. Sure, could be a bit of propaganda, but they way he gushes over Schenn I doubt there's much that could pry him away from us.

I would be dollars to donuts that Luke is still here after draft day.

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Old
05-12-2009, 02:03 PM
  #96
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Schroeder is certainly an interesting player.
At this point, I'd be happy with taking Schroeder, maybe if we can trade down a spot or two, and grab him, and another 2nd rounder.

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05-12-2009, 02:05 PM
  #97
NoamHemsky
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At this point, I'd be happy with taking Schroeder, maybe if we can trade down a spot or two, and grab him, and another 2nd rounder.
Me too, his NCAA numbers a 17 year old are staggering.

I like you plan, and it helps us fill the prospect coffers a bit more as well.

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05-12-2009, 02:06 PM
  #98
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Honestly, Dan. I don't see Burke moving Schenn.

I watched an interview with him and Andi Petrillo and he mentioned that he wishes he could be the one to take credit for trading up and drafting Schenn. Sure, could be a bit of propaganda, but they way he gushes over Schenn I doubt there's much that could pry him away from us.

I would be dollars to donuts that Luke is still here after draft day.
I'll be shocked if Schenn is moved. I still believe the real strategy is to move up and grab Brayden.

But Burke does like to surprise...

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05-12-2009, 02:10 PM
  #99
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Me too, his NCAA numbers a 17 year old are staggering.

I like you plan, and it helps us fill the prospect coffers a bit more as well.
I'm all for a nice, deep prospect pool. You look at teams like Chicago, sure they have a few nice superstars, but the supporting cast is impressive as well. David Bolland (ex London Knight ), Byfuglien, Burrish.

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05-12-2009, 02:20 PM
  #100
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So um, aren't the Islanders taking JT?

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