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Old
05-12-2009, 01:46 AM
  #1
DapperDan
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La - Dal

To DAL: Jack Johnson
To LA: James Neal

Basically, the logic behind it is that the Kings need a scoring LW and Neal is a young gun who is developing really well and fits that mold. Johnson hasn't quite hit his stride on the Kings yet but that might be more of a testament to the youth and inexperience of the team as a whole (and his early injury this season). He had a spectacular performance at Worlds recently, showing he can still be a franchise D-man one day. With Zubov's retirement approaching, Dallas should be looking for upgrades at D now.

OK so the basic premise of this is to gauge values and figure out what might work. This is just the framework. I didn't add picks or other players because I'm not quite certain who has more value and why. If you think it's fair as is, say so. If not, change it as you see fit but with the same idea in mind.

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05-12-2009, 01:49 AM
  #2
Jwm1986
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i like this trade for la, but i have a feeling jj trade value is not what it should be. For some crazy reason, people think he should be putting up 20 goal 40 assist seasons at 20 years old.

but since we all love hf rating system, jj is rated a 9b. i think ive only seen 2 or 3 other players with a rating that high.

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05-12-2009, 02:09 AM
  #3
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I probably overrate JJ, as I have a huge man-crush on the guy. But in my mind he is already a pretty good #2 D and will turn into a #1 in the very near future.

Neal is an intruiging player with lots of upside, but imo, is not worth JJ straight up.

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05-12-2009, 02:12 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I probably overrate JJ, as I have a huge man-crush on the guy. But in my mind he is already a pretty good #2 D and will turn into a #1 in the very near future.

Neal is an intruiging player with lots of upside, but imo, is not worth JJ straight up.
I have the same feeling to be honest, but I didn't want to seem overly homerish. What would you add on Dallas' part to make it even in that case?

Keep in mind though that JJ is an RFA this offseason. That could effect his value right now.

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05-12-2009, 02:18 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
I have the same feeling to be honest, but I didn't want to seem overly homerish. What would you add on Dallas' part to make it even in that case?

Keep in mind though that JJ is an RFA this offseason. That could effect his value right now.
Lets just assume in this circumstance that JJ is signed, I actually think it'll make gauging value easier.

What are LA's needs? (other than a scoring LW)

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05-12-2009, 02:33 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Lets just assume in this circumstance that JJ is signed, I actually think it'll make gauging value easier.

What are LA's needs? (other than a scoring LW)
Not much really. Most Kings fans would say a #2 center but I'm one of the few that's content with either one of Stoll or Handzus in that position.

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Old
05-12-2009, 02:35 AM
  #7
Telos
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I don't think it is that time yet. I honestly don't see JJ on the table because Dean himself has a crush on him. In the end, Dean will do what is best for the franchise, but I think it will be really hard to pry JJ away from the Kings just yet. I maybe homer about it, but I don't like this deal.

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05-12-2009, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I don't think it is that time yet. I honestly don't see JJ on the table because Dean himself has a crush on him. In the end, Dean will do what is best for the franchise, but I think it will be really hard to pry JJ away from the Kings just yet. I maybe homer about it, but I don't like this deal.
I tend to agree with this statement. Neal is no doubt a great young talent, but I just don't see JJ being traded for someone so unproven. If JJ is to be traded, I think it will be as part of a package for a more proven threat/true superstar (Heatley, Kovalchuk, ect).

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05-12-2009, 03:01 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I tend to agree with this statement. Neal is no doubt a great young talent, but I just don't see JJ being traded for someone so unproven. If JJ is to be traded, I think it will be as part of a package for a more proven threat/true superstar (Heatley, Kovalchuk, ect).
The problem is I just don't see Lombardi overpaying for that superstar. And an overpayment is what it would take. Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assessment. I'm just trying to put on my Dean-o-vision glasses here and be somewhat realistic about our options. Also, I don't see Neal as all that unproven. One season doesn't count for much but 24 goals as a rookie is pretty good and I would be surprised if he didn't reach 30 next season. He's also a tough customer and isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. Again, I know it's overused, but these are qualities of the prototypical Lombardi favorite. He could be Brown's complement on the left side. A line of Neal - Stoll - Brown would score goals and inflict havoc on the opposition. This is the kind of two-way team Dean is trying to build after all. Exhibit A: Justin Williams - a goal-scorer who isn't incredibly big but plays a big game. The pattern is clear.

And with this, I must add....POST 1,000 YAY

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Old
05-12-2009, 03:13 AM
  #10
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I like this deal, a lot. JJ would be a great addition to Dallas's blueline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I tend to agree with this statement. Neal is no doubt a great young talent, but I just don't see JJ being traded for someone so unproven. If JJ is to be traded, I think it will be as part of a package for a more proven threat/true superstar (Heatley, Kovalchuk, ect).
Career games played:

Johnson: 120
Neal: 77


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Old
05-12-2009, 03:50 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I like this deal, a lot. JJ would be a great addition to Dallas's blueline.



Career games played:

Johnson: 120
Neal: 77

The thing is I don't think anyone is saying JJ is all that experienced, just that at this point if the Kings were to trade JJ it's felt the Kings should get something a little more proven in return.

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Old
05-12-2009, 05:03 AM
  #12
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Hate the deal. Jack Johnson really hasn't risen to his expectations. Neal has future captain material. I rather the Stars draft their own defenseman than sacrafice a good blue-chip like Neal.

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05-12-2009, 06:43 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I tend to agree with this statement. Neal is no doubt a great young talent, but I just don't see JJ being traded for someone so unproven. If JJ is to be traded, I think it will be as part of a package for a more proven threat/true superstar (Heatley, Kovalchuk, ect).
Right now at this moment Neal has more value than JJ has. To say he is unproven is comical.

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Old
05-12-2009, 08:01 AM
  #14
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If I was to trade JMFJ to another team...I would make sure that it would be OUT of the Western Conference... I'm just sayin'...

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05-12-2009, 08:38 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
Right now at this moment Neal has more value than JJ has.
You are correct...the Kings would probably have to add a 1st round pick just to get the Stars to consider the trade.

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Old
05-12-2009, 08:47 AM
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The value is decent, but the deal itself is bad for both teams. The Kings would need to replace Johnson, which could be costly in itself. Dallas is losing a potential franchise player which is never a good thing either.

The other bad thing about it is the fact the deal is within the division, so if one of the players pans out where the other doesn't, the player that does well haunts his original team for years to come. In all honestly, I could see that player being Neal.

If Johnson ever gets dealt, it should be in a package for a proven top-3 winger. If I were Dallas, I'd keep Neal around to see how he turns out.

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05-12-2009, 08:56 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
The value is decent, but the deal itself is bad for both teams. The Kings would need to replace Johnson, which could be costly in itself. Dallas is losing a potential franchise player which is never a good thing either.

The other bad thing about it is the fact the deal is within the division, so if one of the players pans out where the other doesn't, the player that does well haunts his original team for years to come. In all honestly, I could see that player being Neal.

If Johnson ever gets dealt, it should be in a package for a proven top-3 winger. If I were Dallas, I'd keep Neal around to see how he turns out.
Neal i think is pretty much a lock for 30-35 goals a year. Maybe not next year but in 3-4 years he will be. We can't afford to lose him since Modano is about done.

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05-12-2009, 08:58 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
Neal i think is pretty much a lock for 30-35 goals a year. Maybe not next year but in 3-4 years he will be. We can't afford to lose him since Modano is about done.
Unless he gets injured....

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:15 AM
  #19
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I'm a Dallas fan and I think the Stars would have to add a bit to this deal to make it happen.. maybe a 2nd round pick

James Neal has all of the intangibles that you look for in a player, but the fact is that Johnson was (and still is I guess) one of the top defenceman prospects in the league and probably still has more value around the league then Neal.

but I can't remember the last time two franchises traded young players with a ton of potential for no real reason, so I'm going to guess this doesn't happen.

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:24 AM
  #20
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Interesting idea, but I think the Kings will hold onto Johnson unless he is part of a package that brings back a star player, and that kind of trade doesn't fit what Lombardi is doing, at least not yet.

Lombardi really values defensemen. I think he is going to wait and see how some of these guys (Hickey, Voynov, Johnson, etc.) pan out before he moves one of them.

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:24 AM
  #21
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Hate the deal. Jack Johnson really hasn't risen to his expectations. Neal has future captain material. I rather the Stars draft their own defenseman than sacrafice a good blue-chip like Neal.
Not to mention the fact that Dallas is in a great position to get a potentially elite defenseman with their #8, either by draft or by trade.

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:26 AM
  #22
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This is one of those deals that makes sense value-wise, but doesn't make sense in terms of actually making the deal. Mainly because these two teams are in the same division, neither would wan't to play against the other player 8 times a year, especially if only one of them works out.

I think its better that the Kings hang onto Johnson and draft MPS at #5 and for the Stars to hang onto Neal and draft a d-man at #8(if there's one there that they like).

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:39 AM
  #23
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The OP deserves some credit... quite possibly the first Neal proposal that hasn't been designed to fleece the Stars. It also addresses the upcoming LW logjam (Morrow/Ott/Neal/Benn) ...

I'd still be really nervous doing something like this though. JMFJ will probably reach most of his potential, but it was a little disconcerting watching how fast he was passed developmentally by Doughty. Don't know... tough one.

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Old
05-12-2009, 12:10 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
Neal i think is pretty much a lock for 30-35 goals a year. Maybe not next year but in 3-4 years he will be. We can't afford to lose him since Modano is about done.
No such thing (outside of a few special circumstances). Neal is 21, remember. Would you say J. Staal is a lock for 30-35 goals a year (he's a year younger than Neal and scored 29 goals in his rookie season - followed by 12 and 22)? What about Samsonov (scored 22 goals as an 18 year old rookie - had two 29 goal seasons - hasn't reached 20 goals since 2001/02)? In fact, how many players actually are a lock for 30-35 goals a year in the league? Not Elias, not Doan, not Jokinen, not Havlat, not Hejduk, not Kovalev, not Marleau, etc.

Neal might become a lock for 30-35 goals, but it is not something that can be know a priori, and shouldn't be treated as such. In other words, don't count your chickens before they hatch.

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Old
05-12-2009, 01:00 PM
  #25
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I think this is a win win if you throw Dallas a high second, not a first.
Jack Johnson will have a banner year this year.

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