HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Sharks-Thrashers (Kovalchuk)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-12-2009, 06:28 PM
  #1
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,465
vCash: 500
Sharks-Thrashers (Kovalchuk)

San Jose sends:
Ryane Clowe
Milan Michalek
Derek Joslin
1st in 2010 (if Kovy re-signs)

for
Kovalchuk
Colby Armstrong
Scott Lehman/Brett Skinner

Atlanta gets two legit top-six forwards who are defensively capable to round out their top six core. Ryane Clowe especially could turn into a very good power forward. The obligatory first in 2010 is there if Kovy re-signs, and Derek Joslin is an eventual top-4 defenseman who is ready for NHL time right now, and could battle guys like Valabik, Exelby, and Samela for that top-four spot. Atlanta sheds a bit of salary in Lehman or Skinner. San Jose gets a dynamic goal scorer in Kovalchuk, perhaps the last thing missing from their lineup (on paper), a gritty bottom-six player, and take some salary off Atlanta's hand while getting a reserve player. San Jose probably tries to acquire the rights to Reasoner as well.
Atlanta's forward lines after this:

Michalek - White - Little
Kozlov - Peverley - Clowe

San Jose's forward lines:

Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi
Kovalchuk-Pavelski-Couture
Moen-Mitchell-Armstrong

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:30 PM
  #2
Joey Moss
Registered User
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,363
vCash: 500
Not enough IMO.

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:35 PM
  #3
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 34,244
vCash: 500
Ilya Kovalchuk's cost via trade is too much to consider unless he is signed to an extension as part of the deal. Given his current contract status, there is no way I would trade Milan Michalek straight up for him because the likelihood of him staying in San Jose after that one year is minute.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:35 PM
  #4
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,196
vCash: 500
may be the closest anyone has ever gotten to fair value for kovalchuk, but still needs a little more

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:43 PM
  #5
Magnus Fulgur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Not even close, even though it is fair value "on paper" because...

Atlanta gives up their franchise captain and their heart and soul 20 goal scoring grinder Alternate Captain. Just no.

Armstrong scored 22 last year and Michalek scored 23.

Just flat out no. Even though Kovy isn't extended and I appreciate that, NO.

If Waddell has to trade Kovalchuk it will be for a headliner marketable name (such as Heatley for Hossa). He cannot trade Kovalchuk for some very good players in a market like Atlanta.

Magnus Fulgur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:47 PM
  #6
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 34,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Not even close, even though it is fair value "on paper" because...

Atlanta gives up their franchise captain and their heart and soul 20 goal scoring grinder Alternate Captain. Just no.

Armstrong scored 22 last year and Michalek scored 23.

Just flat out no. Even though Kovy isn't extended and I appreciate that, NO.

If Waddell has to trade Kovalchuk it will be for a headliner marketable name (such as Heatley for Hossa). He cannot trade Kovalchuk for some very good players in a market like Atlanta.
Milan Michalek is a lot more well-rounded as a hockey player than Colby Armstrong. The implication that they're close is the only thing I disagree with in this post. Kovalchuk to the Sharks doesn't make sense for either sides right now.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:50 PM
  #7
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Not even close, even though it is fair value "on paper" because...

Atlanta gives up their franchise captain and their heart and soul 20 goal scoring grinder Alternate Captain. Just no.

Armstrong scored 22 last year and Michalek scored 23.

Just flat out no. Even though Kovy isn't extended and I appreciate that, NO.

If Waddell has to trade Kovalchuk it will be for a headliner marketable name (such as Heatley for Hossa). He cannot trade Kovalchuk for some very good players in a market like Atlanta.
Stats aside, there is no question that Michalek is a more talented player, especially in the offensive zone than Armstrong. I'd put money that Armstrong's season was a bit of an abberration statistically. Put Michalek in a primary-scoring role, and he should break 70 points next year.

I completely understand your point about trading franchise players. But if Kovalchuk is going to leave anyways, would you not rather get something for him? Clowe and Michalek are both fairly young players, who along with Little, should form a nice core for Atlanta over the coming years.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:52 PM
  #8
Rem
PbP is what I spit
 
Rem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 4-LIFE
Country: United States
Posts: 3,620
vCash: 500
Clowe is a UFA. We can't "trade" him.

Rem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:52 PM
  #9
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
Clowe is a UFA. We can't "trade" him.
He is an RFA, no?

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 06:55 PM
  #10
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 34,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
Clowe is a UFA. We can't "trade" him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
He is an RFA, no?
He's a restricted free agent and even UFA's-to-be can be traded until June 30.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 07:03 PM
  #11
goman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
San Jose sends:
Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi
Kovalchuk-Pavelski-Couture
Moen-Mitchell-Armstrong
I can appreciate the chemistry that Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi had last year but please don't waste Kovalchuk on the 2nd line with little Joe Pavelski. You would have one of the premier scorers in the game playing with one of the game's premier playmakers.

goman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 07:10 PM
  #12
ThorntonFan19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,803
vCash: 500
Neither team does this. Sharks cant have that many high contract players on their team. Kovalchuk might not even re'sign in SJ.

Also saying Michalek is close to Armstrong's value is major bs. Michalek is more skilled, faster, is better defensively, has a better shot, is bigger and slightly more physical. Michalek has the most potential of all of the sharks "young guns" and those are the guys you just don't trade.

ThorntonFan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 07:16 PM
  #13
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by goman View Post
I can appreciate the chemistry that Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi had last year but please don't waste Kovalchuk on the 2nd line with little Joe Pavelski. You would have one of the premier scorers in the game playing with one of the game's premier playmakers.
It gives San Jose two deadly lines. Besides, both Kovalchuk and Thornton are puck-hogs. I could see them playing together on the powerplay, but a playmaker like Thornton could be "wasted" on a guy like Kovalchuk

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 07:19 PM
  #14
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorntonFan19 View Post
Neither team does this. Sharks cant have that many high contract players on their team. Kovalchuk might not even re'sign in SJ.

Also saying Michalek is close to Armstrong's value is major bs. Michalek is more skilled, faster, is better defensively, has a better shot, is bigger and slightly more physical. Michalek has the most potential of all of the sharks "young guns" and those are the guys you just don't trade.
Armstrong is far better in the physical department. He is also a much gritter player (which perhaps leads to his better physicality).

Cap wise, it works for San Jose. Michalek has a hit of 4 million alone. Assuming they don't re-sign Grier, trade Cheechoo, resign all their RFAs at reasonable discounts, sign or trade for a 5-6 defenseman, and sign Travis Moen, they are at ~56 million.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:00 PM
  #15
Magnus Fulgur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
I agree that Michalek is a better overall player than Armstrong, but Colby has a high value to the Thrashers, and he's not a bad player at all. He got many of his points playing on the third line this year.

Magnus Fulgur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:06 PM
  #16
bananaz
Registered User
 
bananaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,042
vCash: 500
im not a fan of either team, but how about this...

to atl: marleau, cheechoo, mid level prospect, 1st in 09

to sjs: kovy, armstrong

bananaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:08 PM
  #17
Falcons93
Registered User
 
Falcons93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Not even close, even though it is fair value "on paper" because...

Atlanta gives up their franchise captain and their heart and soul 20 goal scoring grinder Alternate Captain. Just no.

Armstrong scored 22 last year and Michalek scored 23.

Just flat out no. Even though Kovy isn't extended and I appreciate that, NO.

If Waddell has to trade Kovalchuk it will be for a headliner marketable name (such as Heatley for Hossa). He cannot trade Kovalchuk for some very good players in a market like Atlanta.
This, Kovalchuk is a top 10 player in the league. That package will not be enough to pry him from Atlanta. That first round pick has to have the condition removed, then it would be a bit closer.

Falcons93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:17 PM
  #18
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 34,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
This, Kovalchuk is a top 10 player in the league. That package will not be enough to pry him from Atlanta. That first round pick has to have the condition removed, then it would be a bit closer.
This is why it's doubtful that Ilya Kovalchuk gets moved at all. The package that is being expected by fans and probably by Waddell himself is too much of a price for any GM to pay for one year of service.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 08:25 PM
  #19
enerbas
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
vCash: 500
hahahha u can tell that this guy is a sharks fan by how bad of a trade this would be
stop overating your players!

enerbas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:06 PM
  #20
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 34,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by enerbas View Post
hahahha u can tell that this guy is a sharks fan by how bad of a trade this would be
stop overating your players!
Or maybe people can tell how little you know about the trade market and the Sharks players in particular because two top six players in their 20s, a 1st rounder, and a d-man near NHL ready is a lot for a player who's got one year left on his deal.

Ilya Kovalchuk is definitely a superstar but ignoring his contract status is being ignorant to his real trade value. This isn't NHL 2009. You can't just re-sign players because you want to.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:50 PM
  #21
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Not even close, even though it is fair value "on paper" because...

Atlanta gives up their franchise captain and their heart and soul 20 goal scoring grinder Alternate Captain. Just no.

Armstrong scored 22 last year and Michalek scored 23.

Just flat out no. Even though Kovy isn't extended and I appreciate that, NO.

If Waddell has to trade Kovalchuk it will be for a headliner marketable name (such as Heatley for Hossa). He cannot trade Kovalchuk for some very good players in a market like Atlanta.
tox, i actually think this is one of the better deals we have seen in a while

yeah kovy and armstrong are important to us but you can't ignore that that package has some really high value coming back the other way

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 10:23 PM
  #22
xMARCStheSPOT
Registered User
 
xMARCStheSPOT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 942
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to xMARCStheSPOT Send a message via MSN to xMARCStheSPOT Send a message via Yahoo to xMARCStheSPOT
I would love to see Kovalchuk in teal. But those proposed lines are a little off IMO. The Sharks won't have Couture in the NHL this year unless he has a spectacular camp IMO. Jamie McGinn looks ready for a larger role on this team. I would say:

Marleau - Thornton - McGinn
Kovalchuk - Pavelski - Setoguchi
Moen - Mitchell - Armstrong

These would be what i would try if something similar to the proposed deal were to happen.

xMARCStheSPOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 11:06 PM
  #23
Jonas1235
Registered User
 
Jonas1235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,467
vCash: 500
You would have to think that San Jose will be trading Marleau, Cheechoo and perhaps Thornton this summer. They are the reason why they've lost to many times recently.

ATL- Marleau, Cheechoo, 1st round pick, 3rd round pick
SJ - Kovalchuk, Exelby

I seriously doubt Kovalchuk wants to play on the West Coast though. He has a young family and loves Atlanta. He doesn't have a no-trade clause, but he does have alot of clout within the Thrashers organization. I doubt it happens.

Jonas1235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 11:06 PM
  #24
Rickety Cricket
Registered User
 
Rickety Cricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not Kent Huskins
Country: United States
Posts: 28,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous_j View Post
im not a fan of either team, but how about this...

to atl: marleau, cheechoo, mid level prospect, 1st in 09

to sjs: kovy, armstrong
Sharks don't have a first in 09

Rickety Cricket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 11:24 PM
  #25
smokes lets go
Registered User
 
smokes lets go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,327
vCash: 500
i don't see why SJ would gut their secondary scoring for IK who has 1 year left on his deal, Marleau needs to be going the other way in a deal being made IMO

smokes lets go is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.