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Sharks-Thrashers (Kovalchuk)

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Old
05-14-2009, 05:31 AM
  #51
Paul4587
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Not enough for a player of Kovalchuks calibre.

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05-14-2009, 01:18 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
If the Sharks are interested in Kovalchuk, it starts with either Marleau or Vlasic
I would have no problems making Marleau a centerpiece for Kovalchuk but Vlasic is not someone Kovalchuk can garner right now.

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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Not enough for a player of Kovalchuks calibre.
Kovalchuk the player, yes. Kovalchuk the contract, not a chance. I find it very doubtful that a GM will be okay with giving up a lot in terms of young assets for one year. Personally, I don't think anyone will be trading Atlanta any player in a pivotal role in the NHL under the age of 25 for Ilya Kovalchuk right now.

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Old
05-14-2009, 02:10 PM
  #53
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Atlanta is getting too much

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Old
05-14-2009, 03:02 PM
  #54
Magnus Fulgur
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
To all of those calling it a bad deal, show me a deal in recent history where a star player garnered more than this return. Throw in the fact that Kovalchuk doesn't want to be in Atlanta, that he only has a year left on his contract, and that he isn't really playoff-tested.
Atlanta actually got a lot for Hossa in the long run. Armstrong's been great for Atlanta and Esposito should have a good career and they got Christensen which became Eric O'Dell in the trade with Anaheim another solid prospect who should pan out. Is that better than Hossa, no...but way way way better than a couple of months of Hossa. An insanely great trade for Atlanta.

On second thought, Kovalchuk for Marleau is brilliant if DW has to trade Ilya:

1.) You get a #1 center, with which is becomes easier to attract...
2.) GABORIK - who would thrive in the offensive Anderson system and more north-south Eastern Conference play.
3.) Then Atlanta has loads of money to still sign Komisarek (used to play with Hainsey).

Kozlov Marleau Gaborik
Peverley White Armstrong
Stuart Reasoner (another FA)
Boulton Slater Thorburn

Enstrom Bogosian
Hainsey Komisarek
Exelby Salmela

Lehtonen
Hedberg

I greatly prefer this team to last year's team.

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Old
05-14-2009, 03:04 PM
  #55
Rhodes 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
To all of those calling it a bad deal, show me a deal in recent history where a star player garnered more than this return. Throw in the fact that Kovalchuk doesn't want to be in Atlanta, that he only has a year left on his contract, and that he isn't really playoff-tested.
source?

and yeah if kovlachuk and thorton can't play together than thornton is the one that goes to the 2nd line, not kovalchuk.

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05-14-2009, 03:07 PM
  #56
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Even as a Sharks fan I think Marleau for Kovalchuk would be a massive underpayment. I would have no problem if Wilson added some more pieces into the deal to even it out.

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05-14-2009, 03:29 PM
  #57
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As a Kings fan, I'd overpay to get Kovy just so a division rival as tough SJ doesn't land him, or divisional team for that matter.

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Old
05-14-2009, 03:46 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Atlanta actually got a lot for Hossa in the long run. Armstrong's been great for Atlanta and Esposito should have a good career and they got Christensen which became Eric O'Dell in the trade with Anaheim another solid prospect who should pan out. Is that better than Hossa, no...but way way way better than a couple of months of Hossa. An insanely great trade for Atlanta.

On second thought, Kovalchuk for Marleau is brilliant if DW has to trade Ilya:

1.) You get a #1 center, with which is becomes easier to attract...
2.) GABORIK - who would thrive in the offensive Anderson system and more north-south Eastern Conference play.
3.) Then Atlanta has loads of money to still sign Komisarek (used to play with Hainsey).

Kozlov Marleau Gaborik
Peverley White Armstrong
Stuart Reasoner (another FA)
Boulton Slater Thorburn

Enstrom Bogosian
Hainsey Komisarek
Exelby Salmela

Lehtonen
Hedberg

I greatly prefer this team to last year's team.
Yeah, but the package on the first page far triumphs that package...

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05-14-2009, 03:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
source?

and yeah if kovlachuk and thorton can't play together than thornton is the one that goes to the 2nd line, not kovalchuk.
Assuming that if Kovalchuk does not sign a contract, he doesn't want to be there....

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05-14-2009, 03:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
source?

and yeah if kovlachuk and thorton can't play together than thornton is the one that goes to the 2nd line, not kovalchuk.
Yeah....no.

Thornton is the superior player and a more vital player to San Jose. No question about that. He leads the NHL in scoring since the lockout.

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Old
05-14-2009, 04:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Yeah....no.

Thornton is the superior player and a more vital player to San Jose. No question about that. He leads the NHL in scoring since the lockout.
i'm sorry, did you just say thornton was better than kovalchuk

have you ever watched kovalchuk play?

they are both world class talents but there are only two players i would rate above kovalchuk

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05-14-2009, 04:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Assuming that if Kovalchuk does not sign a contract, he doesn't want to be there....
yes but you can't use that evidence until a contract is offered to him and he doesn't sign it

as of now he has done nothing to make anyone think he doesn't want to be there

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05-14-2009, 04:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I would have no problems making Marleau a centerpiece for Kovalchuk but Vlasic is not someone Kovalchuk can garner right now.
Get real dude..

Yeah - perennial 50 goalscorers must grow on trees today I guess. There's only about 3 guys who are a sure bet to score 50 every year - Ovechkin, Heatley, Kovalchuk.. maybe Gaborik and possibly Carter

Not to mention, Kovy could realistically pot 70 playing with JT and on the vaunted SJ Powerplay. San Jose doesn't have a legit finisher and it definitely hurt them this year.

Whats next? Mike Grier for Little? You probably think thats a massive overpayment for San Jose

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05-14-2009, 04:53 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
yes but you can't use that evidence until a contract is offered to him and he doesn't sign it

as of now he has done nothing to make anyone think he doesn't want to be there
and he hasn't done anything to make anyone think that he does want to be there.

The way I see it, Atlanta has two options. They can go through playing another year in which they most likely won't make the playoffs and hope that their franchise player will stay. Or they can deal him away in order to secure pieces that, along with the likes of Little, Enstrom and Bogosian, form a stable core on which to build on in the future.

So the question comes down to, are you confident enough that Kovalchuk will resign that you risk him leaving for nothing after the season is over?

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05-14-2009, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Get real dude..

Yeah - perennial 50 goalscorers must grow on trees today I guess. There's only about 3 guys who are a sure bet to score 50 every year - Ovechkin, Heatley, Kovalchuk.. maybe Gaborik and possibly Carter

Not to mention, Kovy could realistically pot 70 playing with JT and on the vaunted SJ Powerplay. San Jose doesn't have a legit finisher and it definitely hurt them this year.

Whats next? Mike Grier for Little? You probably think thats a massive overpayment for San Jose
Wow, how much more ignorant can you get? This isn't NHL 09. In a salary cap world, the ratio of cap hit to skill always takes precedence before pure skill. Scott Gomez is not a terrible player by any means, but you would be hard pressed to find a team that would want to take on his contract. Why would the Sharks do a 1 for 1 straight up for Vlasic? We would be paying over half the cap on Boyle, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Marleau and Nabby alone. Not to mention that means Blakes gone for sure and one of Murray/Ehrhoff could have to leave, and we would be absolutely gutted on defense.

So yes, if DW wanted to get onto his XBOX 360 and make a deal like that, I'm sure he could easily. But in the real world where money means everything, neither the Sharks nor any other team in the league would lock up that much money in so few players and expect to thrive.

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05-14-2009, 05:22 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PotaGuitar View Post
Wow, how much more ignorant can you get? This isn't NHL 09. In a salary cap world, the ratio of cap hit to skill always takes precedence before pure skill. Scott Gomez is not a terrible player by any means, but you would be hard pressed to find a team that would want to take on his contract. Why would the Sharks do a 1 for 1 straight up for Vlasic? We would be paying over half the cap on Boyle, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Marleau and Nabby alone. Not to mention that means Blakes gone for sure and one of Murray/Ehrhoff could have to leave, and we would be absolutely gutted on defense.

So yes, if DW wanted to get onto his XBOX 360 and make a deal like that, I'm sure he could easily. But in the real world where money means everything, neither the Sharks nor any other team in the league would lock up that much money in so few players and expect to thrive.
Kovalchuk - top 5 winger in the league.

Vlasic - top 40 d-man in the league.

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Old
05-14-2009, 05:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by PotaGuitar View Post
and he hasn't done anything to make anyone think that he does want to be there.

The way I see it, Atlanta has two options. They can go through playing another year in which they most likely won't make the playoffs and hope that their franchise player will stay. Or they can deal him away in order to secure pieces that, along with the likes of Little, Enstrom and Bogosian, form a stable core on which to build on in the future.

So the question comes down to, are you confident enough that Kovalchuk will resign that you risk him leaving for nothing after the season is over?
waddell has already stated that if kovalchuk has not re-signed by training camp then he will be traded so option isn't actually an option

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05-14-2009, 05:34 PM
  #68
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Kovalchuk - top 5 winger in the league.

Vlasic - top 40 d-man in the league.
I'll trade Vlasic, absolutely no problem. but, it doesn't work like that:

We'd have to trade Marleau, JT (no), or Nabby first, for essentially draft picks in order to fit his salary. We'd most likely lose Blake in the process, and probably someone like Michalek/Clowe.

So, essentially, what you are proposing is:

Atlanta gains: Vlasic
Atlanta loses: Kovulchuk

SJ gains: Kovalchuk
SJ Loses: Vlasic, Marleau, Blake, Michalek + bits and peices.

So would you trade one year of Kovalchuk for Vlasic, Marleau, Blake and Michalek?

Resign him, then trade him, ok. Or just be realistic and realize if you want to make that trade something has to give.

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05-14-2009, 05:54 PM
  #69
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Kovalchuk would have to Garner: Marleau, Michalek, and Vlasic


vlasic isnt even that good, reminds me of Yannick Tremblay

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05-14-2009, 06:09 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
waddell has already stated that if kovalchuk has not re-signed by training camp then he will be traded so option isn't actually an option
No he didn't. In fact, he said we're not trading him at all. Even if he has not signed by the trade deadline.

Here is what Waddell told me: ďAt this point I can tell you, Iíve discussed it with the ownership, with the coaches, we have no intentions, regardless of what happens this summer with signing him, we have no intentions of trading him.

Follow the link: http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-thrashe...thrashers_blog

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05-14-2009, 06:45 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Get real dude..

Yeah - perennial 50 goalscorers must grow on trees today I guess. There's only about 3 guys who are a sure bet to score 50 every year - Ovechkin, Heatley, Kovalchuk.. maybe Gaborik and possibly Carter

Not to mention, Kovy could realistically pot 70 playing with JT and on the vaunted SJ Powerplay. San Jose doesn't have a legit finisher and it definitely hurt them this year.

Whats next? Mike Grier for Little? You probably think thats a massive overpayment for San Jose
Ilya Kovalchuk's skill value is worth much more than Vlasic. That's not at all the point though. Salary cap era means that contracts have a huge impact on player value. Any GM that would trade a 22 year old top pairing defenseman for one year of Ilya Kovalchuk is an absolute fool.

Ilya Kovalchuk signed to a multi-year deal can easily snag a Vlasic. Kovalchuk with one year to go is not getting any top four defenseman or top line forward under the age of 25.

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Old
05-14-2009, 07:00 PM
  #72
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No he didn't. In fact, he said we're not trading him at all. Even if he has not signed by the trade deadline.

Here is what Waddell told me: ďAt this point I can tell you, Iíve discussed it with the ownership, with the coaches, we have no intentions, regardless of what happens this summer with signing him, we have no intentions of trading him.

Follow the link: http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-thrashe...thrashers_blog
That appears to be a complete contradiction of what he told Falconer in an interview taken around the time of the draft lottery.

http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com...w-part-ii-free

Quote:
BWA: Everyone knows you have the Kovalchuk contract coming up and July 1st is the key date. Do you anticipate that you will have a deal in place or not--a quick resolution--or will it last all season like Hossa?

DW: I don't think it will last all season. I think it will be pretty quick. For me the decision is "does Kovalchuk want to stay?" and if he wants to stay the money--we can pay it or we can't. I think before the start of the year we will have this thing done, one way or the other--hopefully with him re-signed.

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Old
05-15-2009, 06:46 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
i'm sorry, did you just say thornton was better than kovalchuk

have you ever watched kovalchuk play?

they are both world class talents but there are only two players i would rate above kovalchuk
You are clearly overrating Kovalchuk...I'd venture 90+ assist player are more valuable than 50 goal scorers...

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Old
05-18-2009, 06:37 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
Kovalchuk would have to Garner: Marleau, Michalek, and Vlasic


vlasic isnt even that good, reminds me of Yannick Tremblay

LOL this makes the OP's proposal look real damn good. This is now the worst offer on the board.

a 21 yr old Vlasic- SJ's #2 dman and future #1
a 23 yr old Michalek- 2nd line player, 1st on some teams. 60-70pts a season and one of better defensive forwards in NHL
a 28 yr old Marleau- SJ's captain and 1st liner. Can put up big numbers. Would've easily hit 40 goals this year if it weren't for his injury the last few weeks.


so basically you want SJ to give a top pairing dman, a 1st/2nd line forward, top line 35-40 goal scorer for a 45-50 goal scorer?

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:56 AM
  #75
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Can you be any more naive than that? Waddell proves that he's the WORST GM in the NHL.
He certainly isn't one of the best. But most people see the Coburn/Tkachuk trades as a colossal screw-up on his part, when it actually was the d-bag owners who literally pushed him into it. He had no say in the matter. He either made those trades or he was getting canned very quickly. Slightly spineless maybe, but it's almost impossible to count the number of people who have had to do things they've hated just to keep their job.

It seems to me that you don't know a lot about DW's history of media quotes. You have to take what he says with a grain of salt (truckloads sometimes). He'll say things to focus the attention on him and away from the players. Makes him look like a dink a lot of times, but it has helped keep a good bit of media scrutiny away from the players which is always a good thing. The thinking is that it's better for him to look bad instead of heaping it on the players, so they can focus on actually playing.

Now, I'm not one of his great defenders. He did a pretty crappy job of drafting early on, quite a few bad UFA signings, letting a few players get away. It's been a touch better recently; more drafted players are looking to be the real deal, brought over Enstrom, plucked Peverley off waivers, the signing of Todd White didn't look good at first but it certainly does now.
I can't defend signings like Holik or Rucchin, or letting Savard walk.

Those are just a few examples, could throw out more both good and bad. But this is already too long.
Point is, your great disdain for him is at least decently justified (though I'm not too sure why you have so much venom/hatred for him, but whatever). But it's not all bad, and your lack of knowledge in the whole of what he has done kinda trips you up in the credibility department. Vitriolic quips certainly don't make up for it.

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