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Sharks-Thrashers (Kovalchuk)

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:06 AM
  #76
Homesick
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Atlanta as a franchise cannot afford to trade away the main attraction without something similiar coming back. Star players dont usually garner an equal return but this might be the rare trade that does.
I'm not sure if Thornton straight up would be enough but he would be the type of player that the ownership could sell to the fans.
I wonder if the unthinkable could happen and one of Crosby/Malkin for Ilya Kovalchuk(+?)?

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05-19-2009, 11:23 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Atlanta as a franchise cannot afford to trade away the main attraction without something similiar coming back. Star players dont usually garner an equal return but this might be the rare trade that does.
I'm not sure if Thornton straight up would be enough but he would be the type of player that the ownership could sell to the fans.
I wonder if the unthinkable could happen and one of Crosby/Malkin for Ilya Kovalchuk(+?)?
Look, I'm not going to deny that acquring a star player improves a team's popularity. However, such a boost is temporary at best. A drop in popularity that follows the trading of a superstar has the same life. A team like Atlanta cannot and will not subside or fold on such popularity.

Bottom-line: winning puts fans in seats. Above anything else, winning will make a team popular. New York had superstars up the wazoo a couple years back but couldn't find a casual fan in a strong hockey market. A trade like this goes a long way into making Atlanta a competetive franchise for the next few years. They immediately have a winger core in place, and with the addition of a defenseman and a young top-six center, they have a playoff-worthy core.

I really dislike the mentality that star players -> butts in seats. It is the same logic that is making fans say NYI must draft Tavares since he is a big-name player. If NYI thinks Hedman will play a bigger role in getting the team wins, they will definitely draft him first.

BTW: If you want Thornton, Crosby, or Malkin, it is going to have to be Kovalchuk+, if not Kovalchuk++++++++

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05-19-2009, 11:28 AM
  #78
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Boston trading away Thornton was actually a great move for the team in the long run. They're drawing quite nicely now.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:45 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
BTW: If you want Thornton, Crosby or Malkin it is going to have to be Kovalchuk+, if not Kovalchuk++++++++
I wish you would have just wrote this first, so I wouldnt of had to read your entire post.
Homerism at it's finest.

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05-19-2009, 11:52 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I wish you would have just wrote this first, so I wouldnt of had to read your entire post.
Homerism at it's finest.

While the ++++++ was reserved for Crosby and Malkin, Thornton has more value than Kovalchuk. He has a Hart, an Art Ross, three all-star team selections, has led the NHL in scoring since the lockout, is signed to a great contract for two more years, and can take a basement team to the playoffs almost single-handedly, something Kovalchuk has not done. Kovalchuk only has a year left on his contract (and isn't likely to take a discount like Thornton), has one Richard trophy and one all-star team selection, and hasn't carried a team like Thornton.

The fact that you even thought that Kovalchuk could garner one of Crosby or Malkin shows your homerism.

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05-19-2009, 12:23 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
Kovalchuk would have to Garner: Marleau, Michalek, and Vlasic


vlasic isnt even that good, reminds me of Yannick Tremblay

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05-19-2009, 01:27 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
While the ++++++ was reserved for Crosby and Malkin, Thornton has more value than Kovalchuk. He has a Hart, an Art Ross, three all-star team selections, has led the NHL in scoring since the lockout, is signed to a great contract for two more years, and can take a basement team to the playoffs almost single-handedly, something Kovalchuk has not done. Kovalchuk only has a year left on his contract (and isn't likely to take a discount like Thornton), has one Richard trophy and one all-star team selection, and hasn't carried a team like Thornton.

The fact that you even thought that Kovalchuk could garner one of Crosby or Malkin shows your homerism.
I'm not a fan of the Thrashers, or the Sharks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I wonder if the unthinkable could happen and one of Crosby/Malkin for Ilya Kovalchuk(+?)?
Maybe you missed this part.
Out of of the two players; Kovalchuk would command the biggest return. Thorntons value has never been lower

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05-19-2009, 01:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Out of of the two players; Kovalchuk would command the biggest return. Thorntons value has never been lower
I don't know about that, Thornton is signed for two years while Kovalchuk has only one year remaining. Two years of Thornton is certainly worth more than one year of Kovalchuk. Even if you believe Kovalchuk is the superior player he is not head and shoulders better than Thornton, thus the extra year of service holds more value than any talent disperity.

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05-19-2009, 01:41 PM
  #84
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As far as the original proposal, and the Sharks getting Kovalchuk in general, it's just not going to happen. In order for it to make sence for San Jose they need to send Marleau the other way, but I just don't see Atlanta jumping at Marleau++.

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05-19-2009, 01:42 PM
  #85
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kovulchuk is probably the 5th best forward in the nhl

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05-19-2009, 01:45 PM
  #86
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kovalchuk for malkin sounds good crosby gets a scorer and malkin is better then kovalchuk and he could be a playmaker for little (the player)

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05-19-2009, 01:52 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byter View Post
As far as the original proposal, and the Sharks getting Kovalchuk in general, it's just not going to happen. In order for it to make sence for San Jose they need to send Marleau the other way, but I just don't see Atlanta jumping at Marleau++.
Agreed. The only way I see Kovalchuk in teal is through a 3 way trade, where San Jose acquires a piece that Atlanta would be interested in with Marleau, and then flips Marleau's return in a package for Kovy.

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Old
05-19-2009, 03:11 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
While the ++++++ was reserved for Crosby and Malkin, Thornton has more value than Kovalchuk. He has a Hart, an Art Ross, three all-star team selections, has led the NHL in scoring since the lockout, is signed to a great contract for two more years, and can take a basement team to the playoffs almost single-handedly, something Kovalchuk has not done. Kovalchuk only has a year left on his contract (and isn't likely to take a discount like Thornton), has one Richard trophy and one all-star team selection, and hasn't carried a team like Thornton.

The fact that you even thought that Kovalchuk could garner one of Crosby or Malkin shows your homerism.
if you are going to use facts at least have them be true please

and i'm sorry but the sheer fact that kovalchuk is younger makes him more valuable

noy yo mention there are only 4 forwards i would ever put above kovalchuk, and at the moment only 2 are sure things

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Old
05-19-2009, 03:15 PM
  #89
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Ehrhoff
Michalek
Pavelski
1st 2010


For Kovalchuk and Enstrom.

It will take massive, massive overpayment to get Ilya out of Atlanta, especially during the offseason.

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05-19-2009, 03:20 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
if you are going to use facts at least have them be true please

and i'm sorry but the sheer fact that kovalchuk is younger makes him more valuable

noy yo mention there are only 4 forwards i would ever put above kovalchuk, and at the moment only 2 are sure things
Its amusing that you think I was actually using the all-star game to evaluate players of this caliber. I am talking about the all-star team; I believe Kovalchuk only has one; second-team as well (not counting the rookie team of course).

He is only four years younger. It's not like Thornton is 37 or something. He's also a player that relies on his hockey sense, something that doesn't decline with age like stamina and speed.

Maybe you would only put four forwards above Kovalchuk, but I don't think the rational fanbase would agree.

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Old
05-19-2009, 03:25 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Its amusing that you think I was actually using the all-star game to evaluate players of this caliber. I am talking about the all-star team; I believe Kovalchuk only has one; second-team as well (not counting the rookie team of course).

He is only four years younger. It's not like Thornton is 37 or something. He's also a player that relies on his hockey sense, something that doesn't decline with age like stamina and speed.

Maybe you would only put four forwards above Kovalchuk, but I don't think the rational fanbase would agree.
kovalchuk has played in 3 all-star games, i was just saying that you should make sure your facts are correct before posting them

also, if you really want to test that theory, why don't you make a poll and ask who is better, kovalchuk or thornton

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05-19-2009, 03:30 PM
  #92
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When ATL got swept by NYR, Kovalchuk worked his butt off and was arguably Atlanta's best forward, and WAY better than Hossa. Waddell even called out Kozlov and Hossa for their poor play. That series was basically Tkachuk and Kovalchuk being left out to dry by a bunch of incompetents (from Hartley on down).

As for Thornton, I have never seen him lay it on the line during the playoffs for Boston or San Jose.

Kovalchuk in a playoff game for San Jose>>> Joe Thornton drifting on a cloud for San Jose in a playoff game.

Don't give us this stats or a awards stuff. Thornton has always been about accumulating points in the regular season and not having the fortitude to back it up against contenders in a pressure situation. I'll take dozens of players in the NHL above Thornton: Thornton will help you win in the regular season, but he doesn't make you a winner when it counts.

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05-19-2009, 03:31 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
kovalchuk has played in 3 all-star games, i was just saying that you should make sure your facts are correct before posting them

also, if you really want to test that theory, why don't you make a poll and ask who is better, kovalchuk or thornton
Try reading his post again.

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05-19-2009, 03:42 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
When ATL got swept by NYR, Kovalchuk worked his butt off and was arguably Atlanta's best forward, and WAY better than Hossa. Waddell even called out Kozlov and Hossa for their poor play. That series was basically Tkachuk and Kovalchuk being left out to dry by a bunch of incompetents (from Hartley on down).

As for Thornton, I have never seen him lay it on the line during the playoffs for Boston or San Jose.

Kovalchuk in a playoff game for San Jose>>> Joe Thornton drifting on a cloud for San Jose in a playoff game.

Don't give us this stats or a awards stuff. Thornton has always been about accumulating points in the regular season and not having the fortitude to back it up against contenders in a pressure situation. I'll take dozens of players in the NHL above Thornton: Thornton will help you win in the regular season, but he doesn't make you a winner when it counts.

Because winning in the regular season is overrated right? Kovalchuk hasn't carried his team to the playoffs like JT, which counts for something. JT has also had some pretty good playoffs. He's led SJ in playoffs scoring for three years, and while he sucked this year, he was pretty good in the other series. Kovalchuk has only ahd 4 playoff games. Calling him >>> than Thornton is quite premature.

Besides, if Kovalchuk was so dominant, why did he only have 1 goal in the series?

People hate on Thornton now since its playoff-time. A couple months from now and Thornton is top-ten in points, ppl will be singing a different tune.

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Old
05-19-2009, 03:43 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by um View Post
kovalchuk for malkin sounds good crosby gets a scorer and malkin is better then kovalchuk and he could be a playmaker for little (the player)
If the Thrashers wanted Malkin for Kovalchuk, Little (the player) would be coming back along with Kovalchuk.

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05-19-2009, 03:44 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'm not a fan of the Thrashers, or the Sharks.
Maybe you missed this part.
Out of of the two players; Kovalchuk would command the biggest return. Thorntons value has never been lower
Well, you did say +?, which implies its questionable whether or not you would need +.

Kovalchuk would command the biggest return to HF boards posters with their "what have you done for me lately mentality"? I doubt he is considered more valuable amongst NHL GMs.

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Old
05-19-2009, 04:06 PM
  #97
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Hmmm.

Kovy comes with a 7.5 mil contract, followed by UFA status. The SJ payroll includes:

Big Joe making 7.2

Marleau - 6.3

Cheech - 3.5

Boyle - 6.6

Nabby - 6

Pickles & Ehrhoff combined - 6.3

Murray got a raise to 2.5 mil and the Sharks still need to round out the roster.

No way they could afford Kovy without moving one of the heavies like Big Joe or Marleau.

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05-19-2009, 04:18 PM
  #98
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Hmmm.

Kovy comes with a 7.5 mil contract, followed by UFA status. The SJ payroll includes:

Big Joe making 7.2

Marleau - 6.3

Cheech - 3.5

Boyle - 6.6

Nabby - 6

Pickles & Ehrhoff combined - 6.3

Murray got a raise to 2.5 mil and the Sharks still need to round out the roster.

No way they could afford Kovy without moving one of the heavies like Big Joe or Marleau.
Don't forget Michalek at 4.3 caphit, I think.

I can see SJ trading Cheechoo, Marleau and or/ Michalek for the right return (Kovalchuk). Those 3 are 13 mil off the books, and personally I think Marleau and Michalek could be enough for Kovi (Michalek is signed for something like 3 more years.)

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:13 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by SJfortheCUP View Post
Don't forget Michalek at 4.3 caphit, I think.

I can see SJ trading Cheechoo, Marleau and or/ Michalek for the right return (Kovalchuk). Those 3 are 13 mil off the books, and personally I think Marleau and Michalek could be enough for Kovi (Michalek is signed for something like 3 more years.)
Michalek is signed until 2013-14 I believe.

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:05 PM
  #100
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Kovalchuk will never be in SJ.

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