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Engels: Speculates new owner will be Roustan

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Old
05-13-2009, 10:02 PM
  #76
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Caseofcups View Post
1- Higgins was selected in the first round. Talk about a blown pick ending up on the fourth line.
2. Komo is leaving us for nothing because we refuse to negotiate with FAs during the season. Another great decision.
3. Pleks couldn't carry Obyrne's purse never mind this team.
4. Price has had three playoff series to impres and has failed miserably.
5. I agree he was rushed but who rushed him? Sleeping Bob??

It's just so stupid the way some keep defending this management team over and over again after the position we are in after the imfamous 5 yr plan.

FAIL
1- It's not because Higgins was picked in first round that he should be a first liner. He was never talked about as a top liner too. Last year, with 27Goals, many said Higgins had a disappointing year. He struggled for the most part of year but he was as good a checker could be down the stretch. Nonetheless, it was a disappointing season but in no way is it a ''blown'' pick.

2- So you're the insider. Komisarek reports to you on a daily basis to tell you what are his plans. After such a declaration, you know how dumb you'll look if he re-signs here.

3- If I remember correctly, Plekanec was drafted as a checking line center. He exceeded all expectations the past 2years. If you expected, and still do, that Plekanec was gonna carry our team..it's not a surprise you're disappointed.

4- Price choked in 1 PO series. The one vs the Flyers. Nothing he could do this year, and if it weren't for him last year we probably wouldn't have gone past the Bruins.

5- He was rushed, I agree.

Maybe if you were rational and were watching hockey more than 5years ago, you'd understand why what Gainey did in 5years is a lot more positive than negative.

His plan wasn't a flawless one, but he took a very poor team and brought them to a 1st place finish last year. You probably praised him for it at the end of last season too.
Right now, because your brain isn't developed enough to realize injuries made our team look much worse than it is, you think his plan was crap.
Let's forget about all the prospects we have to look forward too.
Let's also say the youngster we have all suck because they had 1 bad season, because in your magical fantasy mind it's not possible for good players to have bad seasons.


Do you remember the team Gainey inherited?..I'll let you do a little research.

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Old
05-13-2009, 11:14 PM
  #77
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
If you are going to get rid of Gainey, who do you bring in for him? Change for the sake of change doesn't make sense to me, especially if the new guy is not as qualified as the guy you just got rid of. Is there anyone available out there who would be a definite improvement over Gainey?



Iagree that change just for the sake of change is not going to accomplish anything good - at least long term.

Amazingly, a lot of posters on this board point ot the '07-'08 regular seaon results as to what Gainey has done with the Habs in his tenure - that was an anomoly - the exception to the rule.

In 6 years under Bob G. Habs have won exactly 2 playoff rounds! Great 5 year plan!
And, considering the age (as well as the UFA status) of their best forwards, the immediate future of this team does not look promising!


In terms of replacing Gainey - consider how far (in a short time) the Bruins and Flyers have come under previosly unproven GMs!!! They have taken their respective teams further than Gainey has taken the Habs, and ............in much less time!

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05-13-2009, 11:27 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post


Iagree that change just for the sake of change is not going to accomplish anything good - at least long term.

Amazingly, a lot of posters on this board point ot the '07-'08 regular seaon results as to what Gainey has done with the Habs in his tenure - that was an anomoly - the exception to the rule.

In 6 years under Bob G. Habs have won exactly 2 playoff rounds! Great 5 year plan!
And, considering the age (as well as the UFA status) of their best forwards, the immediate future of this team does not look promising!


In terms of replacing Gainey - consider how far (in a short time) the Bruins and Flyers have come under previosly unproven GMs!!! They have taken their respective teams further than Gainey has taken the Habs, and ............in much less time!



And where have the bruins gone that we weren't last year? They haven't done anything special. Philly was also a bottom dweller, the worst of the worst for a full season, then signed a bunch of people to bad contracts (like briere) to turn things around, now they're doing everything they can to unload some of those terrible contracts.

Yes, lets be like boston (who for most of the decade, were our *****es) or philly. Good stuff.

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Old
05-13-2009, 11:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post


Iagree that change just for the sake of change is not going to accomplish anything good - at least long term.

Amazingly, a lot of posters on this board point ot the '07-'08 regular seaon results as to what Gainey has done with the Habs in his tenure - that was an anomoly - the exception to the rule.

In 6 years under Bob G. Habs have won exactly 2 playoff rounds! Great 5 year plan!
And, considering the age (as well as the UFA status) of their best forwards, the immediate future of this team does not look promising!


In terms of replacing Gainey - consider how far (in a short time) the Bruins and Flyers have come under previosly unproven GMs!!! They have taken their respective teams further than Gainey has taken the Habs, and ............in much less time!
The Flyers were much more competitive when Holmgren took over. Before the flop season, the previous year under Clarke, the Flyers made the ECF. Gainey, when he entered, has a disaster of a team. Unlike the Flyers, the season the Habs made the playoffs (01-02) was an aberration. Otherwise, the Habs missed the playoffs four out of five years. That's the difference. The Habs needed to rebuilt completely. Holmgren, when he took over the Flyers, had a lot of movable assets like Forsberg. Did Gainey have a Forsberg to trade? Didn't think so.

Besides, what exactly have the Flyers accomplished that is so much better than the Habs? The Flyers went to the ECF last year, but the Habs got first in the Eastern Conference. This year, both teams were eliminated in the first round but the Habs did not have a healthy Markov, Schneider, Tanguay, Koivu, Bouillon or Sergei Kostitsyn. What was the Flyers' excuse? The Flyers are no better off than the Habs. Their defense is still not good enough. Biron is probably not good enough, either. He can't play against the Pens at all. The Flyers also have some brutal contracts - Briere, Lupul, Carle. These hamper their ability to improve. Yeah, that's wonderful GM'ing. As for the Bruins, they went out in the first round last year and haven't even gotten out of the second round yet. What have they done? So, before you bash Gainey with every post you make, try and think about the facts first.

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05-14-2009, 12:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by lchange View Post
try this
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/la-tribune...n-francais.php

first part says :Le président du Canadien de Montréal, Pierre Boivin, a confirmé cette semaine que le prochain entraîneur-chef du Tricolore sera francophone

The president of the Habs confirmed this week the the next coach will be a francophone.

Thanks for the link. What you quote is the interpretation the cyberpresse guys gave. Boivin's exact words are a bit lower in the same article, you know:

"C'est presque une obligation que le prochain entraîneur soit en mesure de s'adresser aux partisans et aux médias dans leur langue..."

"It's almost an obligation....."

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05-14-2009, 05:40 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
The Flyers were much more competitive when Holmgren took over. Before the flop season, the previous year under Clarke, the Flyers made the ECF. Gainey, when he entered, has a disaster of a team. Unlike the Flyers, the season the Habs made the playoffs (01-02) was an aberration. Otherwise, the Habs missed the playoffs four out of five years. That's the difference. The Habs needed to rebuilt completely. Holmgren, when he took over the Flyers, had a lot of movable assets like Forsberg. Did Gainey have a Forsberg to trade? Didn't think so.

Besides, what exactly have the Flyers accomplished that is so much better than the Habs? The Flyers went to the ECF last year, but the Habs got first in the Eastern Conference. This year, both teams were eliminated in the first round but the Habs did not have a healthy Markov, Schneider, Tanguay, Koivu, Bouillon or Sergei Kostitsyn. What was the Flyers' excuse? The Flyers are no better off than the Habs. Their defense is still not good enough. Biron is probably not good enough, either. He can't play against the Pens at all. The Flyers also have some brutal contracts - Briere, Lupul, Carle. These hamper their ability to improve. Yeah, that's wonderful GM'ing. As for the Bruins, they went out in the first round last year and haven't even gotten out of the second round yet. What have they done? So, before you bash Gainey with every post you make, try and think about the facts first.
Flyers have Gagné, Briere, Carter, Richard, Giroux...heck Lupul would probably be the most productive forward if he played with the Habs.

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05-14-2009, 05:50 AM
  #82
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I think Roustan looks like a competent guy but being a great businessman is what Gillet was. I'd rather have Serge Savard for the simple reason that he knows hockey and since he cares so much for the Habs he would make his mission for the team to be a success. He wouldn't be just happy that the organisation makes money. Roustan looks like the typical corporate shinny teeth type while Savard is this old warrior that will never be satisfied until the Habs are champions.

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05-14-2009, 06:06 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Thanks for the link. What you quote is the interpretation the cyberpresse guys gave. Boivin's exact words are a bit lower in the same article, you know:

"C'est presque une obligation que le prochain entraîneur soit en mesure de s'adresser aux partisans et aux médias dans leur langue..."

"It's almost an obligation....."
In addition, the quote only says that the coach shoud be able to address fans in their language, he didn't say the coach has to be a francophone. Don Lever plus some intense French courses this summer would qualify. Bob Gainey would qualify too, since he can speak French.

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05-14-2009, 06:47 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Flyers have Gagné, Briere, Carter, Richard, Giroux...heck Lupul would probably be the most productive forward if he played with the Habs.
Funny you should say that, his career high in points and goal is one up on that of Chris Higgins. He's inferior to Chris in virtually all categories except offense.

But of course, we keep clinging to the day Chris will score 30, maybe 40 goals right?

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05-14-2009, 07:07 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I think Roustan looks like a competent guy but being a great businessman is what Gillet was. I'd rather have Serge Savard for the simple reason that he knows hockey and since he cares so much for the Habs he would make his mission for the team to be a success. He wouldn't be just happy that the organisation makes money. Roustan looks like the typical corporate shinny teeth type while Savard is this old warrior that will never be satisfied until the Habs are champions.
Savard is exactly what this franchise needs.

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05-14-2009, 07:21 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Caseofcups View Post
Savard is exactly what this franchise needs.
While he is on the list of an owner I would not mind seeing, he does have the deep
pockets of a Roustan or Balsillie.

and to Quebecor, please keep your mismanaging hands away from our team.You've already destroyed what your father built.

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Old
05-14-2009, 02:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Flyers have Gagné, Briere, Carter, Richard, Giroux...heck Lupul would probably be the most productive forward if he played with the Habs.
Gagné was drafted more than 10years ago.
Briere was apparently being shopped because of his huge contract.
Carter was headed to Toronto last year if Kaberle had agreed to remove his NTC. They were lucky Kaberle refused.
Richard was a great pick.
Giroux had a similar rookie year as S.Kost last season.
Lupul..decent player, but at 4.25M..not quite the bargain.

What were you trying to prove exactly??

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05-14-2009, 02:29 PM
  #88
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[QUOTE=ND Irish;19565430]
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Originally Posted by [COLOR="Red"
MonacoBlue;[/COLOR]19559849]
Besides, what exactly have the Flyers accomplished that is so much better than the Habs?


[B]The Flyers are no better off than the Habs. [/B]



It's not that the Flyers (to date) have accomplished (significantly) more than the Habs.......it's that the Flyers finished the 2007 seaon dead last in the Eastern Conference and, under Holmgren have become reasonably competative quickly;

Even more importantly, Flyers (altough they need help in goal and on defense - so do the Habs by the way) have a nucleus of good young talent - mucuh more than Habs (Carter [80+ points], Richards [80 points], Hatrtnell, Lupul, Girouux, Carle) - their future at least looks promising.

Habs have no such talent. Their FOUR best young forwards...... A. Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Lats and Lapierre combined did not score as many points as Carter and Richards combined!

The Flyers - at least have some foundational young talent to build around - I don't see that on the Habs roster!


While Boston,, much like Philly, have good young talent to build their team around. David Krejci (73 points), Philip Kessel (60 points), (Rookie) Blake Wheeler, Milan Lucic, (D) Dennis Wideman, Patrice Bergeron.........all are contributing significantly to a (Boston) team that already eliminated Habs ina 4 game swep!


GO HABS GO!
Way to take every fact out of context. First of all, it was a sweep because of all the injuries. If you say injuries don't matter, then you're saying talent doesn't matter. But it does. Always has, always will.

Second of all, way to perform a "what have you done for me lately" on the whole Habs team. Habs' nucleus already contributing: Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Plekenec, Mike Komisarek, Sergei Kostitsyn, Guillaume Latendresse, Max Lapierre, Carey Price, Max Pacioretty, Halak, Matt D'Agostini. More good players on the way. They didn't all have the best of years, but they'll be fine. Patience is the key. Carter was in his 4th season this year. Andrei's 4th year is next year.

Thirdly, the Flyers were last, but you ignored the fact that they were also the ECF finalists the year before. That's a lot of talent to work with and use to acquire assets. Gainey did not have the luxury of trading a Forsberg to get Ryan Parent, a 1st rounder (which they then used to get Timonen and Hartnell), and Upshall. Explain to me how Gainey is supposed to get those kinds of assets without Forsberg! The Flyers were always a competitive team with lots to work with before the collapse. Therefore, it makes sense that, despite the collapse, they'd have an easier time getting better because of all the assets they had. What did Gainey have? Not much.

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05-14-2009, 02:36 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
It's not that the Flyers (to date) have accomplished (significantly) more than the Habs.......it's that the Flyers finished the 2007 seaon dead last in the Eastern Conference and, under Holmgren have become reasonably competative quickly;
And yet you totally ignored what he said. The Flyers that finished last that Holgrem inherited, had already drafted Richards and Carter, already had Simon Gagné. And the season before they went to the bottom of the league, they reached the ECF. That's MUCH different than the team Gainey inherited. And the Flyers haven't done that much better than the Habs since Holmgren took over.

Quote:
Even more importantly, Flyers (altough they need help in goal and on defense - so do the Habs by the way) have a nucleus of good young talent - mucuh more than Habs (Carter [80+ points], Richards [80 points], Hatrtnell, Lupul, Girouux, Carle) - their future at least looks promising.
Well take out Richards and Carter, as that was Clarke's work, Holmgren didn't add that much, as those two centers are the most important pieces. He had them, but couldn't make the Flyers better by answering their needs, a better defense and better goaltending. The defense was decimated when Desjardins left, so he signed Timonen, but besides that, he hasn't improved the defense, even though he tried with guys like Coburn and Carle.

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Habs have no such talent. Their FOUR best young forwards...... A. Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Lats and Lapierre combined did not score as many points as Carter and Richards combined!
Scoff scoff... Funny you include Plekanec, but didn't include Higgins. Also, the TWO players that do make the difference, yet again, were drafted by CLARKE, not Holmgren. Also you compare THIS season, but compare last season and its pretty close.

Also, these are young players, you can't base yourseld on ONE season to justify your analysis.

The Habs have many young talents that we can look forward too. A Kostitsyn was only in his 2nd season, let's wait and see before concluding too fast (something the bashers always like to do).

The Flyers already had Gagné (and the Habs also tried to get Brière) and signed Brière, which probably helped Richards and Carter along. Koivu and Kovalev are good, but their impact on wingers is not the same as Gagné would have on centermen.

Quote:
The Flyers - at least have some foundational young talent to build around - I don't see that on the Habs roster!
That's where you are wrong and your shortsided nature comes to light. AKost has about 180 games of experience and hasn't shown the full extent of his talent yet. Same with SKost, who has even less experience, about 100 games.

Plekanec and Higgins showed a lot of progression over the last few seasons, only this season have they regressed. But if you look at a lot of players, and let's take one from the Flyers as example, Gagné, we can see that having a bad year doesn't mean the player won't pick it up later on, as Gagné had underperformed/regressed before he got coupled with Forsberg. That's what happens when you disregard simple facts, you forget the reality of the sport.

And then we have MaxPac, Latendresse, Maxwell, Trunev, D'Agostini, Weber, Subban, McDonaugh, Fischer, Price and Halak to look forward too. And some others who might be dark horses.

Again your analysis reeks of bias, as you forget that the Flyers don't have much in terms of future behind the pipes and on the blue line, while the Habs have boatloads of it. But again, this won't convince you, as you are in the simplistic "what have you done for me lately" mode, which is a detriment to any analysis.


Quote:
While Boston,, much like Philly, have good young talent to build their team around. David Krejci (73 points), Philip Kessel (60 points), (Rookie) Blake Wheeler, Milan Lucic, (D) Dennis Wideman, Patrice Bergeron.........all are contributing significantly to a (Boston) team that already eliminated Habs ina 4 game swep!


GO HABS GO!

The Habs would've swept Boston too last season if they had Savard, Chara and Wideman injured.

And again its the same rendering, you completely leave out what the Habs have coming.


Also, in both Philly and Boston cases, you don't expect a regression of the youth, yet it is quite probably as both will have several sophomores and third year players. It happens to many young players. Progression is not a clean straight upward slope. Only in fantasy land it is.

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05-14-2009, 02:44 PM
  #90
Kriss E
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[QUOTE=ND Irish;19565430]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [COLOR="Red"
MonacoBlue;[/COLOR]19559849]
Besides, what exactly have the Flyers accomplished that is so much better than the Habs?


[B]The Flyers are no better off than the Habs. [/B]



It's not that the Flyers (to date) have accomplished (significantly) more than the Habs.......it's that the Flyers finished the 2007 seaon dead last in the Eastern Conference and, under Holmgren have become reasonably competative quickly;

Even more importantly, Flyers (altough they need help in goal and on defense - so do the Habs by the way) have a nucleus of good young talent - mucuh more than Habs (Carter [80+ points], Richards [80 points], Hatrtnell, Lupul, Girouux, Carle) - their future at least looks promising.

Habs have no such talent. Their FOUR best young forwards...... A. Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Lats and Lapierre combined did not score as many points as Carter and Richards combined!

The Flyers - at least have some foundational young talent to build around - I don't see that on the Habs roster!


While Boston,, much like Philly, have good young talent to build their team around. David Krejci (73 points), Philip Kessel (60 points), (Rookie) Blake Wheeler, Milan Lucic, (D) Dennis Wideman, Patrice Bergeron.........all are contributing significantly to a (Boston) team that already eliminated Habs ina 4 game swep!


GO HABS GO!
Your post is bad in so many ways...

First off, Flyers didn't accomplish anything more than the Habs, other than getting to the CF once more.
They also had a pretty good group in 06-07, but were battered by injuries.
Philly coming in last was the biggest surprise of the NHL that year.
It was just one bad season. They didn't have to do a complete rebuilt via draft and trades/signings.
Change a few guys and you're back on top, just like the Habs have the chance to do this summer.

Second, you keep talking about Carter. I guess you forgot that if it were up to the Flyers, he'd be playing with Toronto today.

We had a horrible season this year for many reasons, to judge our young talent based on this season is something only an idiot would do.

How did you feel about our young core after last year?..Komi was one of McGuire's monster performer. He was solid.
Higgins had 27Goals but for some reason he disappointed many fans ..and here you are saying how Lupul is great..
A.Kost had a terrific year and finally started giving a bit of reason behind his pick.
S.Kost was a tremendous call up and had an impact right away.
Plekanec had a career year.
Markov slowly getting recognized as one of the game's best.

But no, that core sucks because of everything that could go wrong this year went wrong.

Boston finished in the bottom for a couple seasons before and last year, the Bruins very much like us this year, battled through injuries all season. Regardless, again like us, they made it into 8th seed.
Difference is, come PO time, their injured players were coming back. For us, we kept losing even more crucial players in the POs (Markov/Schneider/Tanguay).

I'm just curious. If Boston keeps losing key guys to injuries, that require at least 2weeks off, throughout next season and come PO time they lose Chara, Savard, Kessel, Wideman and miss the POs or get quickly eliminated. Will you say their core suck??..

It's stupid to judge the players and GM only on 1 disappointing season because it was the last one.

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05-14-2009, 02:50 PM
  #91
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A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -Saul Bellow


And that need for illusion is fuelled by hatred, or is it the other way around? The ignorance fuels the hatred because the comprehension and analysis skill is very limited for some.

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05-14-2009, 03:03 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -Saul Bellow


And that need for illusion is fuelled by hatred, or is it the other way around? The ignorance fuels the hatred because the comprehension and analysis skill is very limited for some.
It's funny that the Habs have so much talent to work with I even forgot about including players like Higgins when mentioning the core. We have so many good young guys ready to break out. I think will be very surprised with this team next season.

Young core: Andrei Kostitsyn, Sergei, Higgins, Price, Halak, Pleks, Lats, Lapierre, MaxPac, D'Agostini
Prospects: Subban, Weber, McDo, Maxwell

It's the vets that are up in the air, but I'm guessing Komi and Koivu will return because Gainey will make them priorities. When it comes to veteran wingers, Kovalev would probably come back, but we have a chance to pursue an upgrade also. I don't know what Tanguay is thinking, but it's not a big deal if he leaves. There are plenty of options to replace him because wingers are in abundance this off-season.

Come next season, this Habs team will surprise people. The key to all this, though, is that Gainey has to stay. He's done a great job. Same thing with Hull/Jackson and the Stars. The Stars will do even better than people think next year. They've sort of been forgotten, but people will be surprised.

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05-14-2009, 03:39 PM
  #93
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[QUOTE=Kriss E;19566123]
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post

Your post is bad in so many ways...

It's stupid to judge the players and GM only on 1 disappointing season because it was the last one.
Reality Check; Every team - bar none - has their fair share of injuries -not just the Habs. Maybe, just maybe, the fact that the Habs had so few key injuries in '07-'08 (while their opponents had many more injuries) wa sthe main reason the Habs did as well in the regular season as they did (although, the '08 playoffs were a different story).

AND...........I agree - Iam not judging Gainey on one season (although many poster on this board only have the '07 -'08 seaon to list their positives about the Habs) is hardly appropriate.

I am judging Gainey on his 6 years as Habs GM.
In 6 years - Habs have won exactly 2 playoff series! So much or a 5 year plan!

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05-14-2009, 04:20 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post

Reality Check; Every team - bar none - has their fair share of injuries -not just the Habs. Maybe, just maybe, the fact that the Habs had so few key injuries in '07-'08 (while their opponents had many more injuries) wa sthe main reason the Habs did as well in the regular season as they did (although, the '08 playoffs were a different story).

AND...........I agree - Iam not judging Gainey on one season (although many poster on this board only have the '07 -'08 seaon to list their positives about the Habs) is hardly appropriate.

I am judging Gainey on his 6 years as Habs GM.
In 6 years - Habs have won exactly 2 playoff series! So much or a 5 year plan!
And how many did they win the five years before that ?

You cannot evaluate a GM's team building work based on his first 2-3 years - those are irrelevant since it was not his team but the one he took from his predecessor. The only years that should be used in evaluating Gainey should be the last 2. And we had one extraordinary season in 07-08, one great first half of the season in 08-09 and one dissapointing second half. That's a lot better than what we had before Gainey arrived.

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05-14-2009, 04:23 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post

Reality Check; Every team - bar none - has their fair share of injuries -not just the Habs. Maybe, just maybe, the fact that the Habs had so few key injuries in '07-'08 (while their opponents had many more injuries) wa sthe main reason the Habs did as well in the regular season as they did (although, the '08 playoffs were a different story).

AND...........I agree - Iam not judging Gainey on one season (although many poster on this board only have the '07 -'08 seaon to list their positives about the Habs) is hardly appropriate.

I am judging Gainey on his 6 years as Habs GM.
In 6 years - Habs have won exactly 2 playoff series! So much or a 5 year plan!
Every team loses their #1 center for the season?..Every team goes into the POs without their #1 center, #1 Dman(happens to be the team MVP and #1 scorer), a top line winger, and the cannon shot from the PP??...Really?..No. If they do, they wouldn't get past round one.

Every team loses a Komisarek, A.Kost, S.Kost, Koivu, Tanguay, Latendresse, Laraque, Bouillon, Price, Higgins, Markov, Schneider, Lang??..No, they don't.

We didn't have a ''fair share'' of injuries, we were plagued by them. If you think the season we went through is representative of what every team goes through every year, then you live in Lala Land.


You're evaluating Gainey's 5year plan??? So why all I'm reading is you dissing our players, saying we don't have a solid group of core youngsters??..If we take this season out, all of our youngsters have been great. So...

Also, you like to say we only won 2 PO series, but at least we made the POs 4 out of 5 times. That's already a big improvement.
Now, because Gainey said he had a 5year plan to make us a contender and it got derailed in the last season, that means he's done crap all???..That means he's a no good liar???

You just can't make a difference between the team we now have in place thanks to Gainey and his crew, and the one he inherited.
That's sad.

I also love the fact that you chose to compare the work of Gainey vs Holmgrem, and then talk about Carter/Richards.
Like Ozy said, he didn't draft them and Holmgrem actually wanted to trade Carter last year.


All you sound like is another one of those bitter fans disappointed about our season that's not able to give a fair assessment of Gainey's work here.

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05-14-2009, 04:23 PM
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Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

Reality Check; Every team - bar none - has their fair share of injuries -not just the Habs. Maybe, just maybe, the fact that the Habs had so few key injuries in '07-'08 (while their opponents had many more injuries) wa sthe main reason the Habs did as well in the regular season as they did (although, the '08 playoffs were a different story).

AND...........I agree - Iam not judging Gainey on one season (although many poster on this board only have the '07 -'08 seaon to list their positives about the Habs) is hardly appropriate.

I am judging Gainey on his 6 years as Habs GM.
In 6 years - Habs have won exactly 2 playoff series! So much or a 5 year plan!

again, no hindsight in your post... at all

The habs that Gainey took over would have competed for Tavares if it was not about Gainey

You lose again

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05-14-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Every team loses their #1 center for the season?..Every team goes into the POs without their #1 center, #1 Dman(happens to be the team MVP and #1 scorer), a top line winger, and the cannon shot from the PP??...Really?..No. If they do, they wouldn't get past round one.

Every team loses a Komisarek, A.Kost, S.Kost, Koivu, Tanguay, Latendresse, Laraque, Bouillon, Price, Higgins, Markov, Schneider, Lang??..No, they don't.

We didn't have a ''fair share'' of injuries, we were plagued by them. If you think the season we went through is representative of what every team goes through every year, then you live in Lala Land.


You're evaluating Gainey's 5year plan??? So why all I'm reading is you dissing our players, saying we don't have a solid group of core youngsters??..If we take this season out, all of our youngsters have been great. So...

Also, you like to say we only won 2 PO series, but at least we made the POs 4 out of 5 times. That's already a big improvement.
Now, because Gainey said he had a 5year plan to make us a contender and it got derailed in the last season, that means he's done crap all???..That means he's a no good liar???

You just can't make a difference between the team we now have in place thanks to Gainey and his crew, and the one he inherited.
That's sad.

I also love the fact that you chose to compare the work of Gainey vs Holmgrem, and then talk about Carter/Richards.
Like Ozy said, he didn't draft them and Holmgrem actually wanted to trade Carter last year.


All you sound like is another one of those bitter fans disappointed about our season that's not able to give a fair assessment of Gainey's work here.

I guess you are right........Habs were the only team to be affected by injuries in the '08-'09 saeson and the '09 playoffs!

But............if you prefer to live under some delusion that the Habs are (or will soon be) some true Cup contender.........then go for it!

I HOPE THE HABS PROVE ME WRONG AND PROVE YOPU RIGHT! If and when they do, you can drop me a line and tell me about it!

As a fan, I find it remarkable that none other than Guy Lafleur (the last of the Habs truely great superstars) thinks that the Habs roster is made up of 4 - 4ht lines (at least he was quoted as saying something to that affect). Looks like Lafleur isn't as impressed with the Habs roster as you! are!


GO HABS GO!

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05-14-2009, 04:47 PM
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Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
And how many did they win the five years before that ?

You cannot evaluate a GM's team building work based on his first 2-3 years - those are irrelevant since it was not his team but the one he took from his predecessor. The only years that should be used in evaluating Gainey should be the last 2. And we had one extraordinary season in 07-08, one great first half of the season in 08-09 and one dissapointing second half. That's a lot better than what we had before Gainey arrived.



You are kidding right?

Arguably, the HABS may be slightly better off than prior to Gainey's arrival in Montreal.

SO WHAT? What happened to the "plan" that the Habs were (under Gainey) going to be a Cup contender within 5 years of his arrival?

They had a good (not extrodinary) regular season in '07-'08 - but, when it counted most - when players/teams bring their 'A' game every night (playoffs) Habs won 1
('08) playoff series .........and of course didn't even put up a fight against Boston in the '09 playoffs!

SO...........IS THIS WHY GAINEY WAS HIRED - TO WIN 2 PLAYOFF ROUNDS IN 6 YEARS?

Is it any wonder this team has (for the best part of the past almost 30 years) remains mired in mediocrity?

GO HABS GO!

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05-14-2009, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
I guess you are right........Habs were the only team to be affected by injuries in the '08-'09 saeson and the '09 playoffs!

But............if you prefer to live under some delusion that the Habs are (or will soon be) some true Cup contender.........then go for it!

I HOPE THE HABS PROVE ME WRONG AND PROVE YOPU RIGHT! If and when they do, you can drop me a line and tell me about it!

As a fan, I find it remarkable that none other than Guy Lafleur (the last of the Habs truely great superstars) thinks that the Habs roster is made up of 4 - 4ht lines (at least he was quoted as saying something to that affect). Looks like Lafleur isn't as impressed with the Habs roster as you! are!


GO HABS GO!
So because Lafleur agrees with you, you're right? Gainey disagrees with you. He's a HOFer.

It's funny that you would say that injuries affect all teams the same. Are you really saying this. Sure, all teams have injured players, but, depending on luck, it could be good players or bad ones. Let's say every team has an MVP. Some teams did not have their MVP injured. The Habs did. That's not the same. How is it the same? Even over a whole season, it didn't even out. The Habs didn't have a single player who played a full season. Other teams did. How is that the same?

How can you honestly say injuries affected every team the same amount. Do you even watch hockey? Even if you don't admit, I can actually safely say you're wrong in this case if you insist injuries don't make a difference. How do you explain Dallas' collapse? They made the WCF last year. But, surprise, players got hurt and they didn't make the playoffs. A good team would overcome that, no? So Dallas isn't a good team? But, wait, didn't they make the WCF the year before? Haven't they consistently made the playoffs?

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05-14-2009, 04:53 PM
  #100
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
I guess you are right........Habs were the only team to be affected by injuries in the '08-'09 saeson and the '09 playoffs!

But............if you prefer to live under some delusion that the Habs are (or will soon be) some true Cup contender.........then go for it!

I HOPE THE HABS PROVE ME WRONG AND PROVE YOPU RIGHT! If and when they do, you can drop me a line and tell me about it!

As a fan, I find it remarkable that none other than Guy Lafleur (the last of the Habs truely great superstars) thinks that the Habs roster is made up of 4 - 4ht lines (at least he was quoted as saying something to that affect). Looks like Lafleur isn't as impressed with the Habs roster as you! are!


GO HABS GO!
Lafleur said it at the beginning of LAST season. A season that you obviously missed. Need I remind you that the team filled with 4th liners finished 1st in the East?..
What does that say for the other teams??..
Can you find me another 4th liner that will put up 80ish pts?..

Lafleur was a clueless fool and spoke before knowing anything about the youngsters of this club.
He used to smoke between periods in his time, ya he really is an example!
This guy was a superstar and was known for having a big mouth too.
Isn't he eligible to go to jail too??..
Yea, what a model this guy is..


I'm really starting to doubt your capacity to comprehend and assimilate.

Other teams do have injuries, but we were plagued by them, there's a huge difference between the two.
Some came at the very worst timing (mainly Markov, Schneider)
Kovalev, Plekanec, Hamrlik, Gorges, Lappy and Kosto are the only players that weren't injured significantly this year. We don't have 1 single player that played 82Games this year, but yes that's totally normal :

Gorges did get completely hammered and missed one game, but he never came back to be as dominant. Lappy did miss a couple games due to sickness too. But like you said, those type of injuries/sickness happen on every team.

But many of the injuries and the abundance of them are not the norm of what every NHL team has to cope with EVERY YEAR.

Do I think we were a contender last year?? No. We were on a roll, but 2 key missing pieces were evident. A Big top line center, and another good puck moving D (hopefully right handed).
Unfortunately, every thing that could go wrong did this season, so it's hard to assess how good we truly are.



And instead of just bickering, please find me another team this year, or in any season since the existence of the NHL for that matter, that went far in POs without their #1 center, #1 Dmen (MVP), top 3 winger and their PP cannon shot.

Please, find me one team, just one...


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