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Coyotes Hoping For AHL Affiliate In Arizona

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Old
04-11-2014, 10:57 AM
  #1
JB51Hockey
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Coyotes Hoping For AHL Affiliate In Arizona

http://msn.foxsports.com/arizona/sto...filiate-041014

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04-11-2014, 11:43 AM
  #2
SenorChifles
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Then you can see the west coast teams (some) in the ECHL and maybe a CHL team switch to the AHL.
Edmonton and Bakersfield
Los Angeles and Ontario
San Jose and Stockton (or maybe San Diego)
Calgary and Rapid City
Phoenix and Tuscon
Vancouver and Abbotsford
Anaheim and Fresno or San Diego

If this happens, then maybe you will see the ECHL and CHL merge and the weaker teams fall by the wayside and they could pick up some of the cities where the AHL left.

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04-11-2014, 12:10 PM
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JB51Hockey
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I know this is all hypothetical but if LA takes Ontario as an AHL team where would their ECHL team be? Manchester? That seems like just as much of an inconvenience.

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04-11-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorChifles View Post
Then you can see the west coast teams (some) in the ECHL and maybe a CHL team switch to the AHL.
Edmonton and Bakersfield
Los Angeles and Ontario
San Jose and Stockton (or maybe San Diego)
Calgary and Rapid City
Phoenix and Tuscon
Vancouver and Abbotsford
Anaheim and Fresno or San Diego

If this happens, then maybe you will see the ECHL and CHL merge and the weaker teams fall by the wayside and they could pick up some of the cities where the AHL left.
This all sounds great if you want your AHL team to lose more money and get less practice time. It is minimal the times that the location really is an issue in getting a player from his AHL team to the big club. Remember both teams could be on the road at any given time.

This has been talked about for years and it just does not work out in terms of cost and player development. I am not saying it won't happen eventually but there are big limitations to overcome.

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04-11-2014, 03:31 PM
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This all sounds great if you want your AHL team to lose more money and get less practice time. It is minimal the times that the location really is an issue in getting a player from his AHL team to the big club. Remember both teams could be on the road at any given time.

This has been talked about for years and it just does not work out in terms of cost and player development. I am not saying it won't happen eventually but there are big limitations to overcome.
Check out Chifles' selection.

Now, assume Abbotsford stays with Calgary and Vancouver goes with, say, Chilliwack or Langley. Not quite neighbors, but close. Rapid City... that's not happening.

Then... Bakersfield, Ontario, Stockton, Tucson or Prescott, Fresno or San Diego.

The road trips (likely via Sea-Tac vice Vancouver, otherwise within Southern California with an Arizona trip) are really rather small for what I'd say is a fairly likely western arrangement. You're blowing smoke.

Southwest Airlines serves the area fairly cheaply, distances aren't that bad for a likely more regional schedule. So, if it happens, get used to it.

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04-11-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
Check out Chifles' selection.

Now, assume Abbotsford stays with Calgary and Vancouver goes with, say, Chilliwack or Langley. Not quite neighbors, but close. Rapid City... that's not happening.

Then... Bakersfield, Ontario, Stockton, Tucson or Prescott, Fresno or San Diego.

The road trips (likely via Sea-Tac vice Vancouver, otherwise within Southern California with an Arizona trip) are really rather small for what I'd say is a fairly likely western arrangement. You're blowing smoke.

Southwest Airlines serves the area fairly cheaply, distances aren't that bad for a likely more regional schedule. So, if it happens, get used to it.
PCS:

THIS IS A FALSE rumor, as BruinsSharks has suggested, Burke talked about this as early as '06, and nothing has come of it, nor will it be implemented unless LA OR SJ spin off Ontario, Manchester or Worcester, none of which has happened.

Anaheim would have to buy a franchise, and they've already burned Bakersfield, which the Oilers just added.

Abbotsford is all but gone, if the proposed deal between CGY, The Heat and the city is dissolved, rumors have them going to GF, to complement Utica, if not Albany.

Fresno's got the NAHL Monsters after their failure in the E AND San Diego, don't make me laugh, what arena is there indoors after the Gulls fiasco.

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04-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
PCS:

THIS IS A FALSE rumor, as BruinsSharks has suggested, Burke talked about this as early as '06, and nothing has come of it, nor will it be implemented unless LA OR SJ spin off Ontario, Manchester or Worcester, none of which has happened.

Anaheim would have to buy a franchise, and they've already burned Bakersfield, which the Oilers just added.

Abbotsford is all but gone, if the proposed deal between CGY, The Heat and the city is dissolved, rumors have them going to GF, to complement Utica, if not Albany.

Fresno's got the NAHL Monsters after their failure in the E AND San Diego, don't make me laugh, what arena is there indoors after the Gulls fiasco.
Your criticisms of the ECHL and NAHL performances miss a major point: REAL regional affiliations. Being able to add 2 + 2. The ECHL doesn't cut it in this regard.

Now, if you have to lean on a decade of huffing and puffing without blowing the house down, that's fair. Getting 5 teams to jump at once isn't easy.

HOWEVER...

...it has to happen sooner or later.

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04-11-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
Your criticisms of the ECHL and NAHL performances miss a major point: REAL regional affiliations. Being able to add 2 + 2. The ECHL doesn't cut it in this regard.

Now, if you have to lean on a decade of huffing and puffing without blowing the house down, that's fair. Getting 5 teams to jump at once isn't easy.

HOWEVER...

...it has to happen sooner or later.
NOT UNLESS 3 of those 5 change their philsophy to wanting to operate 2 teams, PCS....

Anaheim has already burned bridges w/ Bakersfield, summarily bought by Edmonton, and has never done the O&O, WHAT REGIONAL affiliations are you even speaking of

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04-11-2014, 06:56 PM
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SD/LB, SLC and Phoenix were former IHL cities. They weren't able to make it work with Denver and Las Vegas in the mix. With 2 (3 if you count LA) of those cities hosting NHL teams, I am not sure that it would work now.

I don't see Abby moving. They have a sweet deal for 5 or 6 more years. The recent trend has been teams moving east. It could reverse in 2 years; you never really know.

The closest AHL teams to the Rapid City Rush might be Iowa at 626 miles or Milwaukee at 840 miles or OKC at 859 miles. Those are a 10 to 12 hour drive. It is too bad that the Omaha Knights moved. They were a mere 528 miles from Rapid.

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04-12-2014, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
SD/LB, SLC and Phoenix were former IHL cities. They weren't able to make it work with Denver and Las Vegas in the mix. With 2 (3 if you count LA) of those cities hosting NHL teams, I am not sure that it would work now.

I don't see Abby moving. They have a sweet deal for 5 or 6 more years. The recent trend has been teams moving east. It could reverse in 2 years; you never really know.

The closest AHL teams to the Rapid City Rush might be Iowa at 626 miles or Milwaukee at 840 miles or OKC at 859 miles. Those are a 10 to 12 hour drive. It is too bad that the Omaha Knights moved. They were a mere 528 miles from Rapid.
Abbotsford is all but gone, ads, if the rumblings that the city wants to exercise its out clause, and Andrews showing up in GF mean anything once the Phantoms exit to Allentown once this season ends.

Rapid City is possibly an ECHL Target, but will the CHL allow them to exit.

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Old
04-12-2014, 07:33 PM
  #11
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Abbotsford is all but gone, ads, if the rumblings that the city wants to exercise its out clause, and Andrews showing up in GF mean anything once the Phantoms exit to Allentown once this season ends.

Rapid City is possibly an ECHL Target, but will the CHL allow them to exit.
there is no escape clause. the contract states that any changes must be agreed upon by all partys involved.

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04-12-2014, 11:26 PM
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there is no escape clause. the contract states that any changes must be agreed upon by all partys involved.
thx for the clarification, go

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04-13-2014, 12:54 AM
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Just an FYI about this part of the article:

Quote:
While the proximity of an AHL affiliate would have numerous benefits, one drawback teams must weigh is the increased travel the restructured AHL would create for games. Longer travel generally necessitates more rest for players and less practice days. That's not an ideal situation when teams are trying to develop prospects for the future.
This is why the Coyotes moved their AHL team from San Antonio to Portland.

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04-13-2014, 07:45 AM
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You all seem to forget that you don't just "move" a team up to the AHL,you have to have an AHL license in order to fold up shop at your current location and move to a new location.

So, Phoenix doesn't own an AHL team so they can't do. Neither does Anaheim, so they are out.Vancouver does so they can move. Colorado no. LA & San Jose is a yes (are we sure about SJ?). Calgary and Edmonton kinda do so they can but when Edmonton had a chance to put their team anywhere they wanted a few years ago they chose OKC. If these guys really wanted to start a conference out west they would have done so when Calgary went to Abbotsford.

So which 3-4 franchises do you think will get sold so they can get going out there? Also, you do not need an NHL affiliation to operate in the AHL.

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04-13-2014, 11:13 AM
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There is also that little gem in the CBA about a competing AHL league. I don't see NHL teams fronting the money to pay for two development leagues, but if the AHL "won't" or can't expand Westward (due to the East coast teams refusal to sell their AHL franchise), the option is there for these teams to start their own.

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04-14-2014, 08:23 PM
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Pirates affiliation agreement set to expire; AHL pondering movement out west:
By Chris Roy | Apr. 14, 2014
Quote:
LEWISTON – The Portland Pirates affiliation agreement with the Phoenix Coyotes is set to expire following the end of the regular season, but both parties are sounding confident that a new agreement is within reach.
READ MORE>>>>>

~ Also have thoughts from PHX Asst. GM on western expansion

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04-14-2014, 09:19 PM
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Abbottsford Anyone

The Flames and Abbortsford have parted company, so they may be looking. Meanwhile in Glens Falls may have found their replacement which is contrary to the looking West folks.

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04-15-2014, 11:04 AM
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The Flames and Abbortsford have parted company, so they may be looking. Meanwhile in Glens Falls may have found their replacement which is contrary to the looking West folks.
The city announced they are terminating the contract. Question is can they? Do they need to make a payment to terminate? Does Calgary have recourse to get the termination voided? I imagine this is the first salvo in a situation that may mirror what happened in Portland.

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04-15-2014, 12:49 PM
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$$$

Supposedly the city is coming up with 5.5 mil to do just that. Goodbye Heat.

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04-16-2014, 10:11 AM
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Wistful thinking. The only way this can be done is if Phoenix owns the team outright and can absorb any losses, and this team was in a lot of trouble in recent history.

The AHL has only had two teams in the west coast region (Abbotsford and Utah). The Grizzlies left the league quickly, and Abbotsford has always been a money pit and logistical nightmare. If neither could succeed, what are the odds of the AHL putting a team in Arizona, or for that matter, creating a Pacific division? The only thing that makes some sense is that the old aspect of the league sticking to the northeastern part of North America is starting to fall apart, with some of the non-New York teams having relocated over face difficulties in the past decade. Of course, that simply means just them relocating elsewhere in the region.

They're better off moving the Arizona Sundogs to the ECHL and giving that league's Western Conference some stablity, although that is an apples and oranges comparison.

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04-16-2014, 03:19 PM
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Wistful thinking. The only way this can be done is if Phoenix owns the team outright and can absorb any losses, and this team was in a lot of trouble in recent history.

The AHL has only had two teams in the west coast region (Abbotsford and Utah). The Grizzlies left the league quickly, and Abbotsford has always been a money pit and logistical nightmare. If neither could succeed, what are the odds of the AHL putting a team in Arizona, or for that matter, creating a Pacific division? The only thing that makes some sense is that the old aspect of the league sticking to the northeastern part of North America is starting to fall apart, with some of the non-New York teams having relocated over face difficulties in the past decade. Of course, that simply means just them relocating elsewhere in the region.

They're better off moving the Arizona Sundogs to the ECHL and giving that league's Western Conference some stablity, although that is an apples and oranges comparison.
The AHL will never succeed out there. Wishful thinking.

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04-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
Wistful thinking. The only way this can be done is if Phoenix owns the team outright and can absorb any losses, and this team was in a lot of trouble in recent history.

The AHL has only had two teams in the west coast region (Abbotsford and Utah). The Grizzlies left the league quickly, and Abbotsford has always been a money pit and logistical nightmare. If neither could succeed, what are the odds of the AHL putting a team in Arizona, or for that matter, creating a Pacific division? The only thing that makes some sense is that the old aspect of the league sticking to the northeastern part of North America is starting to fall apart, with some of the non-New York teams having relocated over face difficulties in the past decade. Of course, that simply means just them relocating elsewhere in the region.

They're better off moving the Arizona Sundogs to the ECHL and giving that league's Western Conference some stablity, although that is an apples and oranges comparison.
all the Sundogs have is an affiliation, JD, much as Portland and Gwinnett serves the Coyotes in the ECHL.

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Old
04-18-2014, 07:11 AM
  #23
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hockey is a winter sport, too many nice days out west for teams to compete with over fans. that is why the north east dominates the ahl team count. this is talked about every couple of years, and still has not happened.

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04-18-2014, 10:04 AM
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all the Sundogs have is an affiliation, JD, much as Portland and Gwinnett serves the Coyotes in the ECHL.
True. I was just thinking that it's a better idea to upgrade the Sundogs (although this would impede the affiliation with Gwinnett) to the ECHL in my never-ending quest to see the Western Conference work than trying to put a team in Tucson or Scottsdale in the hopes that the AHL would work out there. Is irrelevant to the topic, but I wanted to just make mention of it.

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Old
04-18-2014, 03:24 PM
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Another blog "report" has found its way to the BoH board, except it's mentioned that sources are involved: http://mayorsmanor.com/2014/04/major...ects-to-socal/

Don't be surprised that it's the "California Cluster" (with Phoenix annexed to California for the sake of this argument) promoting this, given they can create a fairly tight geographic foursome in the region.

The timetable, maybe I'd question. The "it'll never work" cries? I tend to read that as "I don't want to lose my team in my town." I understand, but this is the world of cold cold business.

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