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NYI #26, #31, Bruins #2 + for #11 - #17 overall

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Old
05-14-2009, 10:19 AM
  #1
Dan-o16
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NYI #26, #31, Bruins #2 + for #11 - #17 overall

Hey all - first proposal (don't kill me too much)

If I'm Garth Snow, I've identified players that may slip to around 11-17 in the draft. I'm thinking Kulikov, Cowen, Ekman-Larsson, or Moore. I really don't think any of these D-men last to 26, and I kinda doubt any of them last to 20.

If I'm Snow, I'm willing to part with a lot if the right player is available: #26, #31, Bruins' #2, + Dustin Kohn or Mark Katic or comparable prospect (not available: Hamonic, Trivino, Ness, #37 overall, which I hope we use on a goalie).

My question: if your team drafts 11-17, do you take such a package assuming Kulikov or Cowen or Moore is available? And if you're not drafting in that range, would you or could you offer more for the same thing?

I am thinking that Nashville might be the best fit at #11. I see Buffalo and Florida coveting the same players. In fact, I kind of expect a run on D-men allowing forwards to slip considerably. Hence, the proposal.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
05-14-2009, 10:25 AM
  #2
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If the Flyers end up with 16 or 17 I wouldn't mind trading our 1st for those 3 picks. You can keep the prospects.

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05-14-2009, 10:27 AM
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weaponomega
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I think it would be better for the Islanders to keep all their second round picks than to trade it for one middle first round pick.

You can still get exceptional players in the second round and the Islanders need to add to their prospect depth.

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05-14-2009, 10:31 AM
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Jack Bourdain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega View Post
I think it would be better for the Islanders to keep all their second round picks than to trade it for one middle first round pick.

You can still get exceptional players in the second round and the Islanders need to add to their prospect depth.
Exactly, at 26, if you draft well you might be able to get impact players who develop late. And late picks are always a commodity, if your scouts know how to use them.

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05-14-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega View Post
I think it would be better for the Islanders to keep all their second round picks than to trade it for one middle first round pick.

You can still get exceptional players in the second round and the Islanders need to add to their prospect depth.
i think if the isles can move from 26 to 18-20 by parting with just 26 and 31 they should do it IF a player they covet is available. I do agree with you that they will still get very high quality players at 26, 31 and 37...the defensive depth in this draft is amazing...so yeah, if they stick to their picks, itll be great, if they move up to draft one of the more elite dmen/forwards then im ok with that as well...as long as they dont move too much

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05-14-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Exactly, at 26, if you draft well you might be able to get impact players who develop late. And late picks are always a commodity, if your scouts know how to use them.
I would agree for any other team, but it seems like the Islanders haven't gotten anything from their post first round draft picks as of late. For the Islanders, this might be the right move but on the other hand, this is supposed to be a deep draft and the Islanders pulled in a decent crop in the 2004 draft with Campoli and Comeau. I guess since the 1st overall is a guaranteed top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman, depth should be the focus now. So, I guess keeping the picks is the best option. Snow has to pick wisely though.


Last edited by NobodysFaulkButMine: 05-14-2009 at 12:35 PM.
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Old
05-14-2009, 11:01 AM
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If Ellis isn't there at 15, I think the Jackets would really look at this move

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05-14-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega View Post
I think it would be better for the Islanders to keep all their second round picks than to trade it for one middle first round pick.

You can still get exceptional players in the second round and the Islanders need to add to their prospect depth.
This. New York needs depth, and this looks to be a very good draft with solid players "dropping" to the 2nd round.

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05-14-2009, 11:35 AM
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Buffalo takes the best player available, but if all things are equal they're probably going with a forward as the system is full of young defenseman but they lack impact forwards.

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05-14-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega View Post
I think it would be better for the Islanders to keep all their second round picks than to trade it for one middle first round pick.

You can still get exceptional players in the second round and the Islanders need to add to their prospect depth.
As an Islander fan, I disagree. The Islanders should trade up as much as they can to get a high pick and get the player they want, unlike last year where they needed more prospects.

Trade up should be the plan this year.

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05-14-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega
I think it would be better for the Islanders to keep all their second round picks than to trade it for one middle first round pick.

You can still get exceptional players in the second round and the Islanders need to add to their prospect depth.

As an Islander fan, I disagree. The Islanders should trade up as much as they can to get a high pick and get the player they want, unlike last year where they needed more prospects.

Trade up should be the plan this year.
Yes, last year we got quantity.
This year, we have 7 picks out of the top 100 picks or so.

I don't think the Isles need quantity, I think they should be looking more at quality this year.

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05-14-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Invisible Poster View Post
Yes, last year we got quantity.
This year, we have 7 picks out of the top 100 picks or so.

I don't think the Isles need quantity, I think they should be looking more at quality this year.
Agreed. Besides, 30% (or something like that) of 2nd round picks go on to have a productive NHL career, as opposed to 70-75% of 1st round picks that go on to have a productive career.

Agree in that last year was quantity, this year should be quality.

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05-14-2009, 12:04 PM
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Dan-o16
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I would agree for any other team, but it seems like the Islanders haven't gotten anything from their post first round draft picks as of late. For the Islanders, this might be the right move but on the other hand, this is supposed to be a deep draft and the Islanders pulled in a decent crop in the 2003 draft with Campoli and Comeau. I guess since the 1st overall is a guaranteed top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman, depth should be the focus now. So, I guess keeping the picks is the best option. Snow has to pick wisely though.
In 2003 we drafted Chernykh, Tunik, and Colliton in the 2nd round of the deepest draft in recent memory. Chernykh & Tunik are busts. Colliton is a Bridgeport shuttle guy, a 4th liner at best.

Comeau was 2004 - an very uneven (weak) draft. I think we kinda lucked out. I still don't think he's anything more than an average winger. Some people see Joensuu as a 2nd liner, but I think they're wearing rose-colored glasses. He's a bottom 6 grinder.

Accumulating 2nd round prospects is overrated. We haven't had a 2nd rounder make a significant NHL impact since the early '90's. Comeau has a chance. But you don't win a cup collecting middling 2-3rd line tweeners.

But what I'm getting from this is - if y'all were GM's, I'd have plenty of trading partners.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
05-14-2009, 12:24 PM
  #14
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I could see the Blues being interested in a such deal. With so many talented players in the system, I think that the Blues can afford to trade down to collect more picks. Our scouting brain trust has drafted a couple of promising prospects in the 2nd round in 2007 and 2008 + they also has a great track record with late first rounder (Berglund, Oshie, Perron.)

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Old
05-14-2009, 12:32 PM
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3 2nd rounders is too much to pay to move up 10 spots or so in the first round.

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05-14-2009, 12:34 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
In 2003 we drafted Chernykh, Tunik, and Colliton in the 2nd round of the deepest draft in recent memory. Chernykh & Tunik are busts. Colliton is a Bridgeport shuttle guy, a 4th liner at best.

Comeau was 2004 - an very uneven (weak) draft. I think we kinda lucked out. I still don't think he's anything more than an average winger. Some people see Joensuu as a 2nd liner, but I think they're wearing rose-colored glasses. He's a bottom 6 grinder.

Accumulating 2nd round prospects is overrated. We haven't had a 2nd rounder make a significant NHL impact since the early '90's. Comeau has a chance. But you don't win a cup collecting middling 2-3rd line tweeners.

But what I'm getting from this is - if y'all were GM's, I'd have plenty of trading partners.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Yeah my bad, I meant 2004. 2004 was a mess of a draft, I'll give you that. I think 2nd round picks can be the best picks in the right draft. In deep drafts, you often see guys fall off for whatever reason and get picked up in the second round. In a draft like this, I think second rounders could result in some good pickups, but they are high risk/high reward kind of picks.

On second thought, trading those seconds for a mid selection would likely be the best candidate. It's a safe bet that you'll get someone who can stick in the NHL. I think the 'Yotes moves last year really helped them out. They got two good NHL ready players, who may not lead this team, but will make the top 6 no doubt. Okposo and Bailey look like they'll be great players but they do need some talent beside them, which they don't have at this point. Quantity hasn't worked out in the NYI's past so a change would do them some good. Regardless, this draft is a very important step in the Islanders future. As long as Burke doesn't use his jedi mind tricks, you'll end up with a bonafide star. Although, IMO I think Hedman is the best option. I'm a firm believer in defense first mentality (Yet, I'm a Canes fan) and a less volatile version of Pronger on the back end would be great on any team. Besides, late defensive draft picks (Even as late as 15th overall +) can easily turn into busts or take way too long to develop. An NHL ready defenseman is hard to come by (With 2008 draft being the exception) so I think those later picks or pick would be better used on wingers for Okposo and Bailey.

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Old
05-14-2009, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
3 2nd rounders is too much to pay to move up 10 spots or so in the first round.
I offered 2 2nd's and (essentially) a 3rd , and only if a targeted D-man is available. I like Kulikov, especially.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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05-14-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I offered 2 2nd's and (essentially) a 3rd , and only if a targeted D-man is available. I like Kulikov, especially.

Cheers,

Dan-o

and, I think that is too much to pay. Three 2nd rounders too move up about 10 spots.

I understand your logic, but I don't see Snow paying this kind of price.

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05-14-2009, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
and, I think that is too much to pay. Three 2nd rounders too move up about 10 spots.
With all due respect, am I missing something? Two 2nd rounders + filler (if required). Kohn and Katic are players we already have - another Martinek or Gervais in waiting - medium sized, not physical, not explosive, vanilla. I mean you *could* consider those guys as 2nd rounders. They were picked around there. But you could also pick up guys like these down the line as free agents. Like Callahan and Hillen. More versions of the same player.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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05-14-2009, 01:41 PM
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If the Flyers end up with 16 or 17 I wouldn't mind trading our 1st for those 3 picks. You can keep the prospects.
The Flyers can't end up with #16 or #17. We currently sit at #21 with the Chicago win and we can move up to 20th with a win tonight by either Carolina or Anaheim or up to 19th if both win.


That said, I would do the Flyers 1st for the 31st and Bostons 2nd if we pick 21st or 20th and the #26 and the 2nd if we end up picking 19th.

I would think that the 26th and 31st would be plenty to get youa pick in the 11th to 15th range and the 26th plus Bostons 2nd for a pick from 16th to 19th.

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05-14-2009, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
With all due respect, am I missing something? Two 2nd rounders + filler (if required). Kohn and Katic are players we already have - another Martinek or Gervais in waiting - medium sized, not physical, not explosive, vanilla. I mean you *could* consider those guys as 2nd rounders. They were picked around there. But you could also pick up guys like these down the line as free agents. Like Callahan and Hillen. More versions of the same player.

Cheers,

Dan-o
So, the Isles have done a crappy job of drafting on the second round. Does that make 2nd rounders worthless?

The Isles have also done a crappy job of drafting in the 10 - 20 spot. That makes the pick you are wanting to trade for equal to Robert Nilsson or Ryan O'Marra, according to your logic. So, why don't we just throw away our late first for nothing too?

What you've offered up here is a deal in which the Isles trade the 26th overall, and then three 2nd rounders, for a bump of maybe 15 spots in the first. That would be an unprecedented overpayment for a move up in the first. I can't remember a single trade in which it took that much to move up a few spots.

Oh, and btw, Gervais and Martinek were 7th round picks and Katic (who could still develop into something decent) was a third rounder.

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05-14-2009, 01:46 PM
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in Buffalo's case, it may depend whose there. they covet Kassien and might look hard at Ellis as well

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05-14-2009, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by The Invisible Poster View Post
Yes, last year we got quantity.
This year, we have 7 picks out of the top 100 picks or so.

I don't think the Isles need quantity, I think they should be looking more at quality this year.
As I'm sure you know this years draft is suppose to be very good, very deep, and very talented. The 26th pick is equal to about a 15 to 18 in typical years. The 31st is eualy to about 21st to 23rd in typical years. Those are quality players. Is the player available at #12 this year better than the one you can get at #26 and #31, yes. However, if you are ever going to go for quantity over quality THIS is the year to do it.

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05-14-2009, 01:52 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
In 2003 we drafted Chernykh, Tunik, and Colliton in the 2nd round of the deepest draft in recent memory. Chernykh & Tunik are busts. Colliton is a Bridgeport shuttle guy, a 4th liner at best.

Comeau was 2004 - an very uneven (weak) draft. I think we kinda lucked out. I still don't think he's anything more than an average winger. Some people see Joensuu as a 2nd liner, but I think they're wearing rose-colored glasses. He's a bottom 6 grinder.

Accumulating 2nd round prospects is overrated. We haven't had a 2nd rounder make a significant NHL impact since the early '90's. Comeau has a chance. But you don't win a cup collecting middling 2-3rd line tweeners.

But what I'm getting from this is - if y'all were GM's, I'd have plenty of trading partners.

Cheers,

Dan-o
And this was under Milbury.

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05-14-2009, 01:54 PM
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Darth Milbury
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My point exactly. Yeah, we've drafted crappy on the 2nd round - does that make all second rounders worthless?

We've also drafted crappy on the second half of the first round - does that make first rounders worthless?

The point is to stop burning up youth, and instead use our picks wisely, and carefully develop our prospects. That is how you build a winner.

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