HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

SIRH Study - No Correlation Between % Quebecois Players and Success for Habs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-14-2009, 06:23 PM
  #101
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
So you're just going to pick players from different eras and take everything out of context?

LOL

Doug Harvey
Eddie Shore
Larry Robinson
Bobby Orr
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Scott Stevens
Red Kelly
Larry Murphy

Add in your French HOFer defencemen and we can add tons of even greater players who weren't French.

And for your Vlasic now, I raise you a Shea Weber, Jay Bouwmeester, Dan Boyle, Duncan Keith, Andrei Markov, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Lidstrom again, Kimmo Timonen, etc, etc.

Thanks for playing.
it looks like you didn't read the comment I replied to. It said Quebec d-men aren't as talented, and I showed it wasn't the case and there's plenty of talented defensemen coming from Québec.

and the study was made in the 93 season so that specifically refers to Desjardins and Bourque, so I'm not sure about your out of context thing ... although I'm sure you didn't take the time to read the study and probably had no clue about that

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:26 PM
  #102
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
it looks like you didn't read the comment I replied to. It said Quebec d-men aren't as talented, and I showed it wasn't the case and there's plenty of talented defensemen coming from Québec.
But they're not AS TALENTED. They're fairly talented, but they don't measure up to what the rest of the world has to offer. That's why they're underpaid, and it makes sense. For your one Vlasic, there's plenty of better players and that's why they're paid more.

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:27 PM
  #103
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
and the study was made in the 93 season so that specifically refers to Desjardins and Bourque, so I'm not sure about your out of context thing ... although I'm sure you didn't take the time to read the study and probably had no clue about that
Given your credibility, there's not much reason to read the study...

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:29 PM
  #104
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
But they're not AS TALENTED. They're fairly talented, but they don't measure up to what the rest of the world has to offer. That's why they're underpaid, and it makes sense. For your one Vlasic, there's plenty of better players and that's why they're paid more.
Bourque was as talented as anyone in the game

Vlasic is as good defensively as any other defenseman in the game

Quebec has had its share of Conn Smythe winners, in fact the 1/3 of Conn Smythe winners are Québecois

Quebec players are surely not undertalented compared to other players

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:31 PM
  #105
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
Bourque was as talented as anyone in the game

Vlasic is as good defensively as any other defenseman in the game

Quebec players are surely not undertalented compared to other players
So Vlasic is as good as Lidstrom defensively

That's a joke. A complete joke.

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:32 PM
  #106
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
it looks like you didn't read the comment I replied to. It said Quebec d-men aren't as talented, and I showed it wasn't the case and there's plenty of talented defensemen coming from Québec.

and the study was made in the 93 season so that specifically refers to Desjardins and Bourque, so I'm not sure about your out of context thing ... although I'm sure you didn't take the time to read the study and probably had no clue about that
There isn't a huge number of talented Quebec D-men.
Vlasic?..Beauchemin?..Letang??..

Not really Norris material here..

There's not really a lot of them.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:36 PM
  #107
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
So Vlasic is as good as Lidstrom defensively

That's a joke. A complete joke.
you can check Alan Ryder's method of points created and Vlasic led the league last year in points created on defense, 1 ahead of Lidstrom

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:39 PM
  #108
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There isn't a huge number of talented Quebec D-men.
Vlasic?..Beauchemin?..Letang??..

Not really Norris material here..

There's not really a lot of them.
I wish they would just assemble a Team Quebec already and let them play Team Ontario or Team Russia or Team Sweden. And make it a nice and long tournament. That way, when Quebec gets destroyed repeatedly by Team Russia, I'd like to see what we would have to say

Quebec players are just as good as any, huh? Let them play Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk, Semin, Gonchar, Markov, Nabokov, Varlamov, and company (which really means guys like Frolov and Kovalev). I wonder which team would win

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:39 PM
  #109
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 9,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
This thread is doomed. The same pig-headed opinions will be expressed by the same pig-headed posters on both "sides" of this debate. And what will we learn? Nothing, except the lengths either "side" will go to "prove" it's unprovable point.

Yuck.
I don't think it's safe to talk about pigs these days.

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:40 PM
  #110
Etienne
Registered User
 
Etienne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Fail. Pierre Boivin said he wanted a French coach. The habs would also for SURE take the Quebecer player at equal talent. Guess why.
Pierre Boivin's job is to take your cash and put it in the owner's pockets, even when the team loses.

I'm interested in winning, and that will happen only if the Canadiens hire/trade for/draft/sign the best man available for a job in their hockey department, regardless of his nationality, spoken languages and personal culture.

There aren't 2 players who are identical. You can have 2 guys with the same level of talent, but perhaps one is right-handed and the other left-handed. One's big and strong, the other is small and fast. "Player at equal talent" is a completely theoretical notion that ignores everything every Quebecois are apparently born with: determination, patience, size, grit, experience...

Etienne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:40 PM
  #111
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 9,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
I wish they would just assemble a Team Quebec already and let them play Team Ontario or Team Russia or Team Sweden. And make it a nice and long tournament. That way, when Quebec gets destroyed repeatedly by Team Russia, I'd like to see what we would have to say

Quebec players are just as good as any, huh? Let them play Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk, Semin, Gonchar, Markov, Nabokov, Varlamov, and company (which really means guys like Frolov and Kovalev). I wonder which team would win
The equivalent would be Québec playing against russian provinces. Not countries.

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:41 PM
  #112
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
I wish they would just assemble a Team Quebec already and let them play Team Ontario or Team Russia or Team Sweden. And make it a nice and long tournament. That way, when Quebec gets destroyed repeatedly by Team Russia, I'd like to see what we would have to say

Quebec players are just as good as any, huh? Let them play Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk, Semin, Gonchar, Markov, Nabokov, Varlamov, and company (which really means guys like Frolov and Kovalev). I wonder which team would win
wow, guys like Frolov, how frightening

a Q team could rival any of those teams; I showed you in the other long thread that there's as many good Quebec players as there are anywhere else in the world

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:41 PM
  #113
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
you can check Alan Ryder's method of points created and Vlasic led the league last year in points created on defense, 1 ahead of Lidstrom
Lidstrom: called one of the best defenceman of all time by Bob McKenzie and many other credible hockey analysts. Considered the top defenceman of all time by some others. Yeah, Vlasic is as good as the SIX-TIME NORRIS TROPHY WINNER WHO WON IT THAT'S RIGHT, SIX TIMES, FOR BEING THE BEST DEFENCEMEN INCLUDING ONE LAST YEAR. Riiiiight.

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:41 PM
  #114
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Lidstrom: called one of the best defenceman of all time by Bob McKenzie and many other credible hockey analysts. Considered the top defenceman of all time by some others. Yeah, Vlasic is as good as the SIX-TIME NORRIS TROPHY WINNER WHO WON IT THAT'S RIGHT, SIX TIMES, FOR BEING THE BEST DEFENCEMEN INCLUDING ONE LAST YEAR. Riiiiight.
again, you don't seem to read much so I'll repeat myself

Alan Ryder's method shows that Vlasic had 1 more point created defensively last season than Lidstrom.

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:42 PM
  #115
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
The equivalent would be Québec playing against russian provinces. Not countries.
That's what I mentioned Team Ontario. But he's saying Quebec players are as good as any from anywhere, which implies all of Russia. I doubt he would even be willing to concede that Russian defencemen as a whole are better. Look, he's calling Vlasic as good as Lidstrom defensively for christ's sake!

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:43 PM
  #116
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
again, you don't seem to read much so I'll repeat myself

Alan Ryder's method shows that Vlasic had 1 more point created defensively last season than Lidstrom.
Alan Ryder is wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about. I'll take the NHL's word over his.

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:45 PM
  #117
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
wow, guys like Frolov, how frightening

a Q team could rival any of those teams; I showed you in the other long thread that there's as many good Quebec players as there are anywhere else in the world
What about Ovechkin and Malkin and Datsyuk, who are all nominated for the Hart Trophy? A Q team can't rival that, and you didn't show me jack. The best players in the league at every position but goalie are not from Quebec.

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:47 PM
  #118
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 9,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
That's what I mentioned Team Ontario. But he's saying Quebec players are as good as any from anywhere, which implies all of Russia. I doubt he would even be willing to concede that Russian defencemen as a whole are better. Look, he's calling Vlasic as good as Lidstrom defensively for christ's sake!
Québec would get demolished. Wouldn't have been the case 15 years ago (case and point the under 16 when Québec won with Turgeon and Waite), but today it would.

Québec could win some games against some provinces of course. I guess it could finish arould 4th, after Ontario, BC, Alberta. And Québec could be Alberta, I guess. But that's a pretty absurd argument anyways.

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:48 PM
  #119
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
What about Ovechkin and Malkin and Datsyuk, who are all nominated for the Hart Trophy? A Q team can't rival that, and you didn't show me jack. The best players in the league at every position but goalie are not from Quebec.
I showed you that 1/3 of Conn Smythe winners are Québécois, what do you want more?

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:48 PM
  #120
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 9,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
What about Ovechkin and Malkin and Datsyuk, who are all nominated for the Hart Trophy? A Q team can't rival that, and you didn't show me jack. The best players in the league at every position but goalie are not from Quebec.
Heck, even Canada won't beat the Ruskies!

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:52 PM
  #121
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
again, you don't seem to read much so I'll repeat myself

Alan Ryder's method shows that Vlasic had 1 more point created defensively last season than Lidstrom.
You're the one that's putting too much into this ''method''.

Not because Vlasic got more points according to his method that he's the best that plays Defense.

Vlasic is young and still learning. He's good but nowhere near top of the league.


But let's say he was the best Dman in the NHL. I fail to see how this means there's a bunch of other Quebec born Dmen.
I also don't know why anybody would refute that fact if there indeed was some.

Name a good 10 Quebec born Dmen and maybe you'll have a point.
It's hard to even name 5.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:52 PM
  #122
MonacoBlue
 
MonacoBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
I showed you that 1/3 of Conn Smythe winners are Québécois, what do you want more?
Facts not taken out of context

MonacoBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:53 PM
  #123
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,078
vCash: 500
So "clearly" there's no correlation between # of Québécois versus # of cups....so how about number of good to great Québécois versus number of cups?

Seems to me that this graph also shows that the most number of great francophones play for this team, the more chances we can win the Cup. Then the anti-french will say, and they won't be wrong, that the greater quality (all nations included) produces the more Cups.

Which then mean that you can take a graph and make it say whatever you want depending of the side you are in. So that's what this graph and any graph proves.

People who are trying to prove that you need more an Evgeny Malkin than a Éric Landry is either completely stupid or trying his best to prove a point that in fact does not exist and is invalid. 'Cause that is never what is talking here when we would like to see more QUALITY local flavor. But by quality, I'm not solely talking about top 6 players. Please tell me what a guy like Ian Laperrière would not have been able to do than guys like Garth Murray, Aaron Downey or Tom Kostopoulos are doing. Not only you bring a guy that is local, but you sure as hell bring a whole lot of quality within his role. It's just laughable that for some, the french hate is so strong that they forget to look at the qualities he might have. Please keep repeating that all you want is quality players no matter what, but strangely, forget to see that some of our local guys would have done to do a much better job than the others that are doing it. So not only you would get your "quality" but others would get their local touch. A win-win situation. That for some reasons cannot be looked at.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:56 PM
  #124
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Facts not taken out of context
well I'm not sure what you mean about that context thing, you tell me that Québec players are less talented. I show you that 1/3 of Conn Smythe winners are from Québec, and the trend continues even since 2000 with Roy, Giguère and Richards who played in Rimouski. The playoffs are where it's at and where stars shine. If 1/3 of Conn Smythe awards can be won from Québécois, then why would Québécois be less talented? I doubt that 1/3 of NHL players are Québécois.

Mathletic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2009, 06:58 PM
  #125
cap10bfl
Registered User
 
cap10bfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,942
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to cap10bfl
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
again, you don't seem to read much so I'll repeat myself

Alan Ryder's method shows that Vlasic had 1 more point created defensively last season than Lidstrom.
wow i have been reading closely without getting involved in this debate but this is just too much, you are talking as if vlasic is an incredible talent, there are about 20 other vlasic's in the nhl and there is more than 100 defensemen that are better than him playing in the nhl...

plus, there is no way a team quebec would be able to beat team russia or sweden, imagine our best defensive pair would be letang and beauchemin... not really impressive there (i really hope the habs sign beauchemin)

cap10bfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.