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Old
05-15-2009, 07:14 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Back to GMGM, his blunder this year is the lack of grit on D and maybe one gritty guy up front.

Erskine is fine as a #6. But for goodness sake don't put him out against all-stars!

Alzner will reeeeeaaaallly help.

Green needs a bruiser who can skate on his flank.

Bouwmeester!

Koz is glue but...he is 2nd line material.

Flash is not a legit NHL player. Sorry. He's a poor man's Zednik.

Clark is fading.
Koz is everything wrong with the Caps' up front.

Soft, questionable passion and unreliable.

One of their core problems is lack of cohesiveness--they need to bring in a few strong character players.

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05-15-2009, 07:26 PM
  #127
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If Koz is put in Flash's spot and is replaced on the 1st line with a legit 1st line RW I think it would work. Trouble is, he and his agent do not consider Koz a 2nd liner.

Flash is an obvious dump. Is Cammarelli a legit 1st line RW? I know it's expensive but I'd rather pay a little too much for the real thing rather than save a couple bucks with guys who are pretenders.

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05-15-2009, 07:26 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Koz is everything wrong with the Caps' up front.

Soft, questionable passion and unreliable.

One of their core problems is lack of cohesiveness--they need to bring in a few strong character players.
It wasn't character that trapped the Caps in their zone, it was lack of speed and energy.

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05-15-2009, 07:44 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Is Cammarelli a legit 1st line RW?
Legit as a heart attack. Cammalleri is a beast. His price tag will be way too steep though.

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Old
05-15-2009, 08:55 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I was only using that as an example to relay what I feel has been a trend in his approach to team building. Every GM makes mistakes in a draft there is no question there.

But the underlying philosophy is that GMGM values skill and skating over physicality and grit. I don't think anyone can deny that.

Notice how all our "physical" players (sans Ovechkin) have pretty much been picked up via waivers? Erskine, Jurcina...or perhaps acquired thru "cheap" means? Bradley, Clark.

It shows me he really doesn't put as much value in those types.

You can go as far back as Berry and Doig too. He just doesn't put value on Physical D and feels as if they are dogs who can be picked up off the street corner for cheap.
2008 Draft:
Gustaffson, Carlson, and Broda all like to take the body. And then there's SDR, who's game is taking the body.

2007 Draft:
Ruth (kind of flies in the face of your Petrecki Theory)
Bruneteau
Leffler
Taylor

2006 Draft:
Seabrook
Osala

So that's 10 draft picks in the last 3 years that are physical players who take the body. I think that shows GMGM values that type of player. The effort is there, it's just a matter of the guys developing and making it to the NHL, which is easier said than done.

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05-15-2009, 10:13 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
It wasn't character that trapped the Caps in their zone, it was lack of speed and energy.
Who would you attribute that to?

Flash, Kozlov and Semin all skated at least two steps behind the Penguins' players and looked disinterested or scared the entire series (Kozlov had 1 productive game- nice shot and open net)

That's half of the Top 6.

The fact that Semin folds like a lawn-chair whenever he's hurt doesn't bode well for the Caps. His thumb injury doesn't explain his selfish, sloppy play.

If they're going to challenge the best team's in the league they need to add leadership up front and stability in their own end.

More or less what a lot of us were saying at the deadline...

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05-15-2009, 11:02 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
2008 Draft:
Gustaffson, Carlson, and Broda all like to take the body. And then there's SDR, who's game is taking the body.

2007 Draft:
Ruth (kind of flies in the face of your Petrecki Theory)
Bruneteau
Leffler
Taylor

2006 Draft:
Seabrook
Osala

So that's 10 draft picks in the last 3 years that are physical players who take the body. I think that shows GMGM values that type of player. The effort is there, it's just a matter of the guys developing and making it to the NHL, which is easier said than done.
Really? So you're saying all of these guys are hit first players? I sure didn't see that from Osala this year.

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05-15-2009, 11:03 PM
  #133
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Flash isn't going anywhere unless maybe he's a part of a big trade. The guy just had a breakout year and played a regular shift in the playoffs. Fehr is a much more likely candidate.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:55 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Really? So you're saying all of these guys are hit first players? I sure didn't see that from Osala this year.
No, I said they're willing to take the body. Some of them are hit first players. The point is, GMGM has shown a willingness, and an effort to draft physical, gritty players. There's only so many of that type of player avaialable. But of course, you're going to choose to ignore that, since its easier to bash him for a draft pick made 6 years ago. Your vendetta against GMGM is getting juvenile.

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05-16-2009, 02:13 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Really? So you're saying all of these guys are hit first players? I sure didn't see that from Osala this year.
You were able to tell from 8 minutes of ice time?

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05-16-2009, 03:01 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
No, I said they're willing to take the body. Some of them are hit first players. The point is, GMGM has shown a willingness, and an effort to draft physical, gritty players. There's only so many of that type of player avaialable. But of course, you're going to choose to ignore that, since its easier to bash him for a draft pick made 6 years ago. Your vendetta against GMGM is getting juvenile.

Oh please...I said the guy earned another year. Talk about over dramatic.

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05-16-2009, 03:02 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
You were able to tell from 8 minutes of ice time?
I notice it from Matt Bradley immediately, Brashear too..

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05-16-2009, 06:12 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Really? So you're saying all of these guys are hit first players? I sure didn't see that from Osala this year.
You say that like it's an asset.

Willingness to play physical is great. "Hit first" or a drive to play the body at all costs, not so much if you're anything more than a 4th line energy guy.

You're not going to see that from a callup when they've got an impression to make, well not from anyone other than, say, Beagle (that's his role).

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05-16-2009, 06:13 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
I notice it from Matt Bradley immediately, Brashear too..
Those are definitely appropriate comparisons for Osala...

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05-16-2009, 10:55 AM
  #140
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No matter how we got here, GMGM is what built this team. We dont have enough grit and too many perimeter guys. He went all in on Feds and left us no cap room. Were we trying to win the cup this year? I think so but if not we need to give GMGM more time to fill in the missing pieces. He must part with some of his precious assets to win the cup next year.

He must resolve the Nylander situation. Call me crazy, but I think assuming he will be gone come training camp will be like assuming he would be gone at the deadline. All talk no action makes Mike a dull boy. But nothing has changed. Is it possible that Bruce's inability or refusal to make Nyls into a functioning player that he was for 15 years, has potentially killed his trade value? Nice try by GMGM, casually mentioning that Nylander may have been hobbled by his lingering cuff.


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05-17-2009, 02:23 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
No matter how we got here, GMGM is what built this team. We dont have enough grit and too many perimeter guys. He went all in on Feds and left us no cap room. Were we trying to win the cup this year? I think so but if not we need to give GMGM more time to fill in the missing pieces. He must part with some of his precious assets to win the cup next year.

He must resolve the Nylander situation. Call me crazy, but I think assuming he will be gone come training camp will be like assuming he would be gone at the deadline. All talk no action makes Mike a dull boy. But nothing has changed. Is it possible that Bruce's inability or refusal to make Nyls into a functioning player that he was for 15 years, has potentially killed his trade value? Nice try by GMGM, casually mentioning that Nylander may have been hobbled by his lingering cuff.
With GMGM mentioning that Nylander's shoulder may still be bothering him could that mean long term injured reserve? Alternatively if Nylander does decide to retire could he be useful as a European scout?

Can someone refresh my memory as to who the crease clearing grit defensemen are on Detroit. Chelios the 46 year old?

With regards to Fedorov, I have the utmost respect for the guy. He is a legend.

Can his leadership be retained by the Caps in a non player capacity? Hate to lose him but his age is starting to creep up on him. He's still good enough to play. Plus "On April 28, 2009, at age 39, Fedorov scored the game winning goal against the New York Rangers in game seven of a playoff series, the oldest player in NHL history to do so" Like some of my old vehicles that still have value and which I have such a hard time parting with because I have attachment issues. I have a concern 4mil is way too high. It also delays the development of a younger guy if he's there. Does he still bring it enough to command big bucks? Will he stay if offered 1/2? Sigh Deal or no deal.

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05-17-2009, 08:04 AM
  #142
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The wings forwards clear both creases better than our defensemen clear ours. Dont sneeze at Chelios, I bet he plays with more heart that than our 4 best dmen. Count his rings lately? Do you know his career PIM totals? Everyone points to Detroit as the team to model after. I think its not a bad idea, but if you dont have the best defensemen in the league, the comparisons are futile. Keep dreaming of why we are not Detroit.

But if you want to, lets go. Detroit beats you to it. Why does such a great team need to bring grit and drive the net, screening opposing goalies? Holmstrom, Franzen, Cleary. Why dont they release those guys?

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05-17-2009, 09:50 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
You were able to tell from 8 minutes of ice time?
It either has to be a rougher game or someone gets under his skin a good deal before he starts throwing around the body. That being said from watching him in Hershey all year. I gotta say it would be awesome to see him play a game or two with the mentality of say Andrew Gordon…people would get hurt.

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05-17-2009, 01:41 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by kicksavedave View Post
This misses the point completely. Like Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. We'll never draft a cheap Pronger type player if we don't make drafting that style of player a focus, as opposed to drafting skilled puck moving offensive minded guys or 6'6'' softies. Its not like you draft a Pronger type and he automatically pans out. But its assured that if you don't draft that style of player, you won't find one either. We're not really even trying... haven't tried since GMGM has been here, 11 year now. One guy, Finley, does not change an 11 year trend that has proven unsuccessful.
It hasn't been just Finley... it's just that most (all?) of them haven't panned out.

Any of these big guy's names ring a bell?

Siklenka (6'4", 220)
Yonkman (6'6")
Pokulok (6'5")

There are another 5 or 6 defensemen with a little snarl to add to that list if you include guys under 6'5". Granted, he doesn't draft a big monster every year, and yes I agree, he can do a lot better on his blue line acquisitions (both trades and drafts), but don't say he doesn't ever try. I think part of the problem needs to be laid on the scouting department for not finding them.

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05-17-2009, 04:03 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
It wasn't character that trapped the Caps in their zone, it was lack of speed and energy.
I think we know now that having two of the 6 d with broken feet and a third with a shoulder damaged enough that he would not have played in the regular season, you can see where the D zone problems were.

Thats one guy on each d pair that had a real problem either chasing or fighting for the puck.

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05-17-2009, 04:28 PM
  #146
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I think we know now that having two of the 6 d with broken feet and a third with a shoulder damaged enough that he would not have played in the regular season, you can see where the D zone problems were.

Thats one guy on each d pair that had a real problem either chasing or fighting for the puck.
Don't forget about Mo and his groin and ankle injury.

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05-17-2009, 07:24 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
No matter how we got here, GMGM is what built this team. We dont have enough grit and too many perimeter guys. He went all in on Feds and left us no cap room. Were we trying to win the cup this year? I think so but if not we need to give GMGM more time to fill in the missing pieces. He must part with some of his precious assets to win the cup next year.

He must resolve the Nylander situation. Call me crazy, but I think assuming he will be gone come training camp will be like assuming he would be gone at the deadline. All talk no action makes Mike a dull boy. But nothing has changed. Is it possible that Bruce's inability or refusal to make Nyls into a functioning player that he was for 15 years, has potentially killed his trade value? Nice try by GMGM, casually mentioning that Nylander may have been hobbled by his lingering cuff.
I dont think McPhee was all in to win the Cup this season. Else he would have paid the price for Pronger and the future be damned. The team is not there yet. I don't think McPhee planned to go all in until the season after Theodore expired.

I think the Caps have moved about a season ahead of McPhee's plan. I think they wanted to make the playoffs last season, but the way they did caught everyone off guard. I think he thought they would improve this season with more growing pains and finish the season improved from an 8th place point total to a 4th thru 6th. I think the 2 seed was an overachieve.

They bounced back to reality and course a bit by winning one playoffs for growth, but not advancing further.

I think if McPhee can shed Nylander, he will go for the cup next season with his roster moves. Kozlov is expired, Fedorov is expired, Morrisonn is expired, Johnson is expired, and Theodore and Pothier have one season left.

So, no. He was not going for the cup this season. I think they felt like they had a shot at it, but were not going to come off the plan to take a shot at it.

I think the Caps win the 1 seed next season and go from there.

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05-17-2009, 09:24 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
You say that like it's an asset.

Willingness to play physical is great. "Hit first" or a drive to play the body at all costs, not so much if you're anything more than a 4th line energy guy.

You're not going to see that from a callup when they've got an impression to make, well not from anyone other than, say, Beagle (that's his role).

No, he was contending that all of the sudden, McPhee is focusing on physical players....I'm calling BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Those are definitely appropriate comparisons for Osala...

Play style, sure, not a real comparison. The point I was trying to make was that those less skilled guys, you notice their hitting even with limited minutes. I didn't see that in the limited minutes for Osala this year.

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05-17-2009, 09:42 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
No, he was contending that all of the sudden, McPhee is focusing on physical players....I'm calling BS.



Play style, sure, not a real comparison. The point I was trying to make was that those less skilled guys, you notice their hitting even with limited minutes. I didn't see that in the limited minutes for Osala this year.
Saying someone is physical is completely different from saying they're hit-first. Two entirely different things, especially for prospects that haven't adjusted to the NHL level.

The idea that Osala (for example) isn't a hit-first guy in his limited NHL experience doesn't preclude him from counting as a physical prospect. The same would/will/might be said for A. Gordon, for Carlson, maybe for Seabrook, possibly for AnGus, and probably for Broda as well (among others, obviously).

Comparing them to "less skilled guys" filling roles as NHL grinders or 8-min a night energy players doesn't make any sense, because (in most cases) the prospects are trying to show they can keep up with the NHL pace and show that they're more than just "less skilled" energy guys. They've yet to adjust to the NHL game, and at this point I'm guessing most are more worried about avoiding mistakes than they are about being "hit-first."

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05-17-2009, 10:33 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Saying someone is physical is completely different from saying they're hit-first. Two entirely different things, especially for prospects that haven't adjusted to the NHL level.

The idea that Osala (for example) isn't a hit-first guy in his limited NHL experience doesn't preclude him from counting as a physical prospect. The same would/will/might be said for A. Gordon, for Carlson, maybe for Seabrook, possibly for AnGus, and probably for Broda as well (among others, obviously).

Comparing them to "less skilled guys" filling roles as NHL grinders or 8-min a night energy players doesn't make any sense, because (in most cases) the prospects are trying to show they can keep up with the NHL pace and show that they're more than just "less skilled" energy guys. They've yet to adjust to the NHL game, and at this point I'm guessing most are more worried about avoiding mistakes than they are about being "hit-first."
They're hockey players, they're all physical to some extent. And all I'm saying is that Brashear and Bradley can immediately be noticed, then someone else can too (Osala or anyone else). I'm not in any way "Comparing them to less skilled guys" except in the hitting department, so yes it's a valid comparison. The lowest skilled bum, or the greatest goal scorer in the world can be recognized in 1 min or 23 mins of ice time if they actually hit.

Anyway, when someone can show me that these guys are all somewhere near the hits and PIM leads in their respective leagues, and then I'll start to believe McPhee has magically shifted his focus in the draft to more physical, edgier players...

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