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What Do You Think Of GMGM Now?

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Old
05-18-2009, 12:22 AM
  #151
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
They're hockey players, they're all physical to some extent. And all I'm saying is that Brashear and Bradley can immediately be noticed, then someone else can too (Osala or anyone else). I'm not in any way "Comparing them to less skilled guys" except in the hitting department, so yes it's a valid comparison. The lowest skilled bum, or the greatest goal scorer in the world can be recognized in 1 min or 23 mins of ice time if they actually hit.

Anyway, when someone can show me that these guys are all somewhere near the hits and PIM leads in their respective leagues, and then I'll start to believe McPhee has magically shifted his focus in the draft to more physical, edgier players...
So you're essentially admitting that you have no knowledge of the physicality of the players drafted, and yet you assume they're not actually physical, and I'm just making it up?

How about actually gaining some knowledge on a subject before you argue about it?

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05-18-2009, 06:22 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
They're hockey players, they're all physical to some extent. And all I'm saying is that Brashear and Bradley can immediately be noticed, then someone else can too (Osala or anyone else). I'm not in any way "Comparing them to less skilled guys" except in the hitting department, so yes it's a valid comparison. The lowest skilled bum, or the greatest goal scorer in the world can be recognized in 1 min or 23 mins of ice time if they actually hit.

Anyway, when someone can show me that these guys are all somewhere near the hits and PIM leads in their respective leagues, and then I'll start to believe McPhee has magically shifted his focus in the draft to more physical, edgier players...
There's a HUGE difference between a guy that plays his game with some physicality and someone who's only job is to be physical. If you're just looking at PIMS you're looking at someone like Delly, a pure energy guy/borderline pest.

All of the prospects in the list you're objecting to do have some physical component to their game, but they've still got other hockey roles to focus on. Obviously GMGM didn't go out and draft that many energy guys in the last 3 years, that'd be a huge waste of draft picks.

"More physical, edgier" does NOT equal "the most physical, edgiest" and it does NOT equal "hit first."

AnGus is a two-way player, a more physical Backstrom-type. He's definitely a physical player by all accounts, but he's not going to be close to a PIMs leader because he actually has a non-energy hockey role. That doesn't keep him from being a physical prospect (although whether it translates is, of course, a legit unknown).

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05-18-2009, 07:36 AM
  #153
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Patrick Wellar's a decent name of someone who was drafted as a physical presence in the back end. Kid had a pretty good number of fights in Junior. Three years of 120+ pims isn't anything to sniff at.

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05-18-2009, 08:33 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
They're hockey players, they're all physical to some extent. And all I'm saying is that Brashear and Bradley can immediately be noticed, then someone else can too (Osala or anyone else). I'm not in any way "Comparing them to less skilled guys" except in the hitting department, so yes it's a valid comparison. The lowest skilled bum, or the greatest goal scorer in the world can be recognized in 1 min or 23 mins of ice time if they actually hit.

Anyway, when someone can show me that these guys are all somewhere near the hits and PIM leads in their respective leagues, and then I'll start to believe McPhee has magically shifted his focus in the draft to more physical, edgier players...
You don't need to rack up huge PIM numbers (or even hit totals) to be a physical or edgy player. The guys who fit that description are generally fighters who don't bring much else to the table. IMO it's more important to have more skilled guys who are a threat to hit, but won't necessarily go for the hit first. If a guy knows when to pick his spots it makes him tougher to predict. He could lay you out, or force you into a spot on the ice you don't want to go, instead of having to hit to be effective.

There are several young players in the farm system who will bring a more physical presence to this team. We'd all like them to be ready next year, but that's just not going to happen. Getting a guy like Ohlund would be a big improvement.

I think sometimes people forget that this team is 1 1/2 seasons removed from being cellar dwellers, and that things don't happen overnight.

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05-18-2009, 09:56 AM
  #155
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I'm a Devils fan primarily, but the Capitals are my 2nd favorite team (lived in Washington for 3 years, love Ovechkin, etc).

And I thought it was practically criminal for your GM to not bring in anyone for the playoff run at the deadline.

Washington has a fantastic core of young, exciting players, including the best forward the league has seen since Mario Lemieux. But they are all offensive players.

This is a core that has the potential to win quite a few Cups, if it's surrounded by the right complementary players. And this is where your GM has failed miserably so far. Where are the defensive specialists? Where is the grit?

A cup contender going into the playoffs with Jose Theodore (who was awful all year) and a rookie in goal? Really? If Varlamov didn't come out of nowhere and play pretty well, this would have doomed the Caps from the start. At least bring in a veteran backup who could play if need be.

Okay, maybe there wasn't cap space available to bring in a real impact player. But surely, he could have brought in a cheap veteran roleplayer or two for the Cup run, preferably one who had won the Cup before. Yes, I know Fedorov was the "been there before" guy on the Caps, but it couldn't hurt to have more guys like that, could it?

Like I said, I see the Caps' core as one that could lead the team to many Cups. But a great core needs to be surrounded by players that compliment it to go far in the playoffs - for the Caps, this means defensive players and veteran leaders - the two things the core really lacks. And not only did GMGM fail to bring in this type of player, it appears to me at least that he didn't even try.

Oh, and signing Khabibulin in the offseason to split time with Varlamov would be a great move, but obviously Theodore would have to be dumped somehow first.

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Old
05-18-2009, 10:06 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Oh, and signing Khabibulin in the offseason to split time with Varlamov would be a great move, but obviously Theodore would have to be dumped somehow first.
I think the time for that has passed. It'd be nice to have a veteran Russian goalie to help Varlamov with his transition, but it's doubtful that he'd want to sign a 1-year deal. I can't see GMGM signing him to a multi-year deal when Varly will probably be ready to take over full-time in 2010-11 (and if he isn't, Neuvirth could be).

That, and it's doubtful he could be had for Theo's price. He's got his team in the conference finals.

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05-18-2009, 10:12 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This is a core that has the potential to win quite a few Cups, if it's surrounded by the right complementary players. And this is where your GM has failed miserably so far. Where are the defensive specialists? Where is the grit?
The Caps have a couple of defensive specialists, they just aren't very good. For some reason Boyd Gordon and Dave Steckel get passes around here despite the fact that they anchored a PK that was embarrassingly bad all season.

Everyone was gushing about Stecks in the playoffs because he scored 3 goals, but I still see a guy with very limited offensive skills whose main role is to prevent the other team from scoring, and in the Pittsburgh series the other team scored practically at will.

Gordon and Steckel are also part of the PK group that CAN'T CLEAR THE ****ING PUCK OUT OF THE ZONE EVER. They also are apparently incapable of doing anything with Mr. Crosby, who made a nice little camp in the crease for 7 consecutive games.

I know the D is terrible as well, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the rest of the problem. The fact that Gordon and Stecks outperformed Mike Green shouldn't give them immunity from criticism.

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05-18-2009, 10:17 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
2008 Draft:
Gustaffson, Carlson, and Broda all like to take the body. And then there's SDR, who's game is taking the body.

2007 Draft:
Ruth (kind of flies in the face of your Petrecki Theory)
Bruneteau
Leffler
Taylor

2006 Draft:
Seabrook
Osala

So that's 10 draft picks in the last 3 years that are physical players who take the body. I think that shows GMGM values that type of player. The effort is there, it's just a matter of the guys developing and making it to the NHL, which is easier said than done.

i think Seabrook is going to surprise a lot of us with his game and IMO he could probably replace Erskine somewhere down the line.

he's pretty beastly.

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05-18-2009, 10:24 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by bottleCAPS View Post
i think Seabrook is going to surprise a lot of us with his game and IMO he could probably replace Erskine somewhere down the line.

he's pretty beastly.
I doubt he even signs with the Capitals.

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05-18-2009, 10:25 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'm a Devils fan primarily, but the Capitals are my 2nd favorite team (lived in Washington for 3 years, love Ovechkin, etc).

And I thought it was practically criminal for your GM to not bring in anyone for the playoff run at the deadline.

Washington has a fantastic core of young, exciting players, including the best forward the league has seen since Mario Lemieux. But they are all offensive players.

This is a core that has the potential to win quite a few Cups, if it's surrounded by the right complementary players. And this is where your GM has failed miserably so far. Where are the defensive specialists? Where is the grit?

A cup contender going into the playoffs with Jose Theodore (who was awful all year) and a rookie in goal? Really? If Varlamov didn't come out of nowhere and play pretty well, this would have doomed the Caps from the start. At least bring in a veteran backup who could play if need be.

Okay, maybe there wasn't cap space available to bring in a real impact player. But surely, he could have brought in a cheap veteran roleplayer or two for the Cup run, preferably one who had won the Cup before. Yes, I know Fedorov was the "been there before" guy on the Caps, but it couldn't hurt to have more guys like that, could it?

Like I said, I see the Caps' core as one that could lead the team to many Cups. But a great core needs to be surrounded by players that compliment it to go far in the playoffs - for the Caps, this means defensive players and veteran leaders - the two things the core really lacks. And not only did GMGM fail to bring in this type of player, it appears to me at least that he didn't even try.

Oh, and signing Khabibulin in the offseason to split time with Varlamov would be a great move, but obviously Theodore would have to be dumped somehow first.
The Capitals had literally Zero Cap space and Zero contracts available at the deadline. It's hard to do anything with zero.

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05-18-2009, 10:28 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
I doubt he even signs with the Capitals.
wouldn't doubt it, which is stuipid.

he'll be better than half the guys we do have signed (Godfrey, Finley, Pokulok etc)

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05-18-2009, 10:38 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Foy View Post
The Capitals had literally Zero Cap space and Zero contracts available at the deadline. It's hard to do anything with zero.
Well, then that was a huge mistake by GMGM right there. Knowing he had a young, extremely talented, but inexperienced team, perhaps he should have left some space to make at least minor additions at the deadline.

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05-18-2009, 11:09 AM
  #163
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Our cap struggles are indeed squarely on george's shoulders. Not getting rid of Nylander is on his plate. If you blame those two things on us not being able to make any deadline moves, then thats on his plate as well.

But again, if you think we werent gunning to make a cup run this year, who cares what GMGM did this year. His deadline move 2 seasons ago, and the offseason signing of Feds told me that we did make a run for the cup this year. If you are at max cap and are not gunning for the cup, well then you are an idiot.

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05-18-2009, 11:38 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DaleHunter View Post
It hasn't been just Finley... it's just that most (all?) of them haven't panned out.

Any of these big guy's names ring a bell?

Siklenka (6'4", 220)
Yonkman (6'6")
Pokulok (6'5")

There are another 5 or 6 defensemen with a little snarl to add to that list if you include guys under 6'5". Granted, he doesn't draft a big monster every year, and yes I agree, he can do a lot better on his blue line acquisitions (both trades and drafts), but don't say he doesn't ever try. I think part of the problem needs to be laid on the scouting department for not finding them.
Two things - One, its not just size I'm referring to but a style of play. Big guys who play like small guys are worthless to me. They are generally inferior skaters and unless they are going to be guys who use their size to wreak havoc around the net, what good are they? GMGM has drafted several "big" defensemen.... but very very few are mean, physically imposing, gritty, nasty type of players. Not among his draftees, and certainly not among his free agent defense pickups - Poti, Pothier, and going back in time, all the way to Mironov.

Maybe a better way to judge GMGM's valuation on grit is to simply look at this entire roster and ask yourselves - how does it measure up to the other playoff contenders, as far as grit and toughness are concerned, especially along the blue line. I'd say we lean far to the side of "skilled/soft" vs "gritty/tough" across the entire organization, Ovechkin not withstanding.

Point number two is, I can't blame the scouting department without blaming GMGM directly... he hires them, he manages them, they are an extension of him. If they fail, he fails. And given our absolutely horrific draft record outside of the 1st round, they ALL fail, in epic fashion. Without OV this team is dreadful. Semin, Backstrom and Green do not lead us to the 2nd round by themselves.

Now I'll admit I'm encouraged a little by the depth in Hershey, but there are a ton of guys down there who are AHL studs, but NHL also rans, who won't come here and "IMPROVE" our team. Honestly I think Alzner, Carlson and Neuvy are about it as far as serious upgrades that we can hope for from Hershey.

The thread title is "What do you think of GMGM now". I used to give him a D-. Now I give him a C. Way too many areas that he can and must improve upon to be graded any higher.

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05-18-2009, 12:26 PM
  #165
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Where GMGM and his amateur scouts haven't focused enough on IMO are high-end heady two-way forwards, power forwards with skill, role player forwards (besides SDR last year as a pest with upside) and defensive-defensemen that aren't gargantuan. One other area I'd like to see focused on more are players that can flat-out skate, skate, skate. It helps when it comes to PK ability and controlling (defensively) and pushing (offensively) one's time & space. Bourque & Aucoin are the closest things in the org. but ideally you'd want a little more size. A guy like Darren Helm being a good example.

There have been some promising selections outside of the first round in the past few years and I think the key to those picks is drafting for character above all else. If you're not the most skilled player but you bring a killer work ethic to the table then you've got a better shot at carving out a spot in the NHL in some capacity. Rather than going for the home run project that has some raw upside I'd like to see more players selected that just simply bring it night after night...heart and soul guys that pay the price with incredible regularity. Della Rovere seems like a guy in that mold and you can't really have enough of them in the system.

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05-18-2009, 07:04 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by bottleCAPS View Post
wouldn't doubt it, which is stuipid.

he'll be better than half the guys we do have signed (Godfrey, Finley, Pokulok etc)
Is he small? I have it stuck in my head that he's small. Maybe I'm wrong.

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05-18-2009, 09:51 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by kicksavedave View Post
Two things - One, its not just size I'm referring to but a style of play. Big guys who play like small guys are worthless to me. They are generally inferior skaters and unless they are going to be guys who use their size to wreak havoc around the net, what good are they? GMGM has drafted several "big" defensemen.... but very very few are mean, physically imposing, gritty, nasty type of players. Not among his draftees, and certainly not among his free agent defense pickups - Poti, Pothier, and going back in time, all the way to Mironov.
But Dave,

The night McPhee signed Mironov, I told you it was a horrible move: you and Chris said I was wrong.

Have you seen the light?

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05-18-2009, 10:50 PM
  #168
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But Dave,

The night McPhee signed Mironov, I told you it was a horrible move: you and Chris said I was wrong.

Have you seen the light?
Hehe, I used to drink the Koolaid... until I choked on it... Now I prefer rusty tap water.

How ya been Bill?

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05-18-2009, 11:15 PM
  #169
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Hehe, I used to drink the Koolaid... until I choked on it... Now I prefer rusty tap water.

How ya been Bill?
Pretty good. In upstate NY: the missus is giving a speech on International trade, and the Jman & I came along. She says to say hi.

Being near the end of Ted's 2nd 5 year plan, I agree 100% with your posts.

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05-18-2009, 11:32 PM
  #170
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You don't need to rack up huge PIM numbers (or even hit totals) to be a physical or edgy player. The guys who fit that description are generally fighters who don't bring much else to the table. IMO it's more important to have more skilled guys who are a threat to hit, but won't necessarily go for the hit first. If a guy knows when to pick his spots it makes him tougher to predict. He could lay you out, or force you into a spot on the ice you don't want to go, instead of having to hit to be effective.

There are several young players in the farm system who will bring a more physical presence to this team. We'd all like them to be ready next year, but that's just not going to happen. Getting a guy like Ohlund would be a big improvement.

I think sometimes people forget that this team is 1 1/2 seasons removed from being cellar dwellers, and that things don't happen overnight.
Edgy physical players do rack up PIMS and hits...they dont have to be league leading totals, but they should be better than average.

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05-18-2009, 11:35 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
So you're essentially admitting that you have no knowledge of the physicality of the players drafted, and yet you assume they're not actually physical, and I'm just making it up?

How about actually gaining some knowledge on a subject before you argue about it?
Prove me wrong...I'll happily admit it.

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05-18-2009, 11:58 PM
  #172
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Prove me wrong...I'll happily admit it.
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05-19-2009, 08:04 AM
  #173
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Until the Caps can rid themselves of the Theodore and Nylander contracts they are on an extremely tight budget. They also have a boatload of FAs to sign. That said, youngsters in the system making little salary will get a long look in camp to fill a roll.

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05-19-2009, 08:29 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Edgy physical players do rack up PIMS and hits...they dont have to be league leading totals, but they should be better than average.
I have to agree with this. At that point then its a matter of degrees. For instance we can look at Matt Bradley. Bradley hits and forechecks hard. He is obviously willing to fight above his ability and take a few for the team. He racks up penalty minutes. He, however, doesn't play with an edge. He does not play on the edge of what is acceptable. His minor penalties are mistakes, not part of the plan. He does not crosscheck or high stick or elbow a guy for effect and take the consequences if he is caught.

Chris Clark plays with a bit of an edge. He will throw a face wash or a stick in the direction of a guy he think needs some attention and he too will fight whenever called upon, but most of his penalties are mistakes.

I don't think the Caps want a 150pim's agitator who is always in the penalty box, because they don't want a player like that to create a great PK issue than they already have.

My view is that if they decide to bring in PIM's it will be pain PIM's from a Brendan Witt style defenseman than annoying PIM's from a Cooke/Avery type player.

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05-19-2009, 09:16 AM
  #175
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Pretty good. In upstate NY: the missus is giving a speech on International trade, and the Jman & I came along. She says to say hi.

Being near the end of Ted's 2nd 5 year plan, I agree 100% with your posts.
Ted's (or GM's, who knows) first five year plan lead us directly to the first overall pick in 2005 and Alex Ovechkin, so that was a huge success . The second 5 year plan, which is essentially what the first five year plan was supposed to look like, is much better, but I'm not convinced its Cup ready now or anytime soon. Deep playoff runs are possible if we get some hot goalie play like Varly in the Rags series, but Cups? Not quite yet.

Say Hi to the better half for me, and the munchkin who is probably now taller than me

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