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Old
05-14-2009, 11:39 PM
  #26
Readyrock
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Haha. Pitkanen.


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Old
05-15-2009, 03:23 AM
  #27
captainpaxil
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its like fridgesterdamos the next year we get a bunch of guys suspended and we go to the conferance finals.

i started tracking prospects after zubrus made the team. i mispronounced gagnes name to all my buddies (simon, like says gag knea) so by the time the lockout happened i was familair with pretty much every player in the system. not only did that phantoms team give me hockey when there was no nhl they brought home a championship even if its a minor league. those guys grew for a large part into the team that sucked. ill never forget how easy it was to get flyers tickets that year or how sad i felt not being able to give that other seat away. time after time taking the el down to the game to watch a last place team lose. i felt like those are the guys i suffered with and i root for them all to have as much success as possible. my heart bled all season in 06/07 but there was the hope of so much potential if teh damn cap says they gotta fufill it elsewher so be it but to me they bled orange and black and that makes em flyers.

who do i get get mad at when i see them succeed gary bettman and the idiots who decided hockey in the desert was a good idea. grumble gruble salary cap grumble grumble i miss rj grumble grumble upshall too grumble money? there isnt enough ice in florida for two hockey teams grumble grumble

its weird i have this longstanding thing that i cant root for any player who is or ever was a cowboy. once you put on the star of satan your the enemy. i am starting to get that way about pittsburgh. im not the only guy who hasnt mentioned hal gill in our quest for a free agent defensman with som size so i know others feel the same way. rex gets a pass because he won the cup with them early in his career so do johnny and tochect who always were and will be flyers. but i just cant find any love for rusty anymore. im not rooting for him to get caught with his head down like crosby i just dont care if he succeeds. i used to really like him till he put a penguins jersey on. now? apathy.

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Old
05-15-2009, 09:51 AM
  #28
turkinaa
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How about trading Forsberg in the Lindros deal? Fedotenko doesn't annoy me that much because we got Pitkanen and his only real claims to fame are the winning goal against us and the cup winning goal that year. He hasn't done anything else, even when he plays on the same team as Crosby and Malkin. Williams, Sharp, and Brindy are different stories.

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Old
05-15-2009, 10:08 AM
  #29
IrishSniper87
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Guys I wish we didn't trade
-Forsberg (the first time)
-Brindy
-Rex
-Sharp
-Williams

However, we have fleeced other teams pretty bad also. We got LeClair and Desjardins from Montreal. We got Coburn from Atlanta. Hindsight is 20/20.

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Old
05-15-2009, 10:44 AM
  #30
Larry44
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Pitkanen can go to hell. hes as fragile mentally as a toothpick. He is riding Cam Ward's coattails right now. **** him.
Mmmm, I wish we had a Dman who could play 28 minutes a game in all situations, handle guys like Lucic and Bitz physically and still outrace Kessel to loose pucks.

Even Maguire was raving about his conditioning, after he got stuck on the ice for an eternity in OT and never let up.

Ward is riding Joni's coattails as much as vice versa now.

Last night's line? 35:33 TOI (led all players by over 3 mins), 2 assists, +2....

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...9/ES030217.HTM


Trading a young D man with that much talent, character and competitiveness was a mistake, whatever issues they had with him fitting in. They should have had more patience.

Let's hope they've learned their lesson with other young guys like Coburn, Carle, Parent and Sbisa... It won't all be smooth sailing.

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Old
05-15-2009, 11:52 AM
  #31
BringBackStevens
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I always loved Joni Pitkanen. Sure he was an odd ball, but i don't believe he needed to leave to put it all together. Pretty disgusting how he was run out of town here by impatient fans and media pigs like Pinnachio.

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Old
05-15-2009, 12:13 PM
  #32
Jester
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Cant forget Recchi. ****, went to Pittsburgh and thrived there and now the Bruins.
Erm, Recchi wanted to re-sign here but Clarke didn't want to sign him prior to the lockout -- the right decision -- and Pittsburgh was willing to give him a contract. Depending on what moves we make with our forwards, I think they should consider him as a veteran for the room on a 1-year deal.

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Old
05-15-2009, 12:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
I always loved Joni Pitkanen. Sure he was an odd ball, but i don't believe he needed to leave to put it all together. Pretty disgusting how he was run out of town here by impatient fans and media pigs like Pinnachio.
I think it's clear that the team itself was turning on him a bit given some of the quotes that came out of guys. That being said, I think the team clearly screwed up in how they handled/developed Pitkanen, and that played a significant role in the fact that it just wasn't going to work out here.

He's looked fantastic this year in the games that I've seen. Significantly improved defensively, and playing far more physical along the endboards.

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Old
05-15-2009, 12:24 PM
  #34
BringBackStevens
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think it's clear that the team itself was turning on him a bit given some of the quotes that came out of guys. That being said, I think the team clearly screwed up in how they handled/developed Pitkanen, and that played a significant role in the fact that it just wasn't going to work out here.

He's looked fantastic this year in the games that I've seen. Significantly improved defensively, and playing far more physical along the endboards.
I think so too, but for a while Tim P was writing article after article just ripping Joni a new one. That was a rough season for Pitkanen, but he was treated like total crap by the media and fans. At least the players saw first hand his personality (which the fans didn't learn about until AFTER he was driven out) and could form their own opinions, the papers and the fans should have had the brains to recognize his abilities and left judging his personality to those who know him.

Blame certainly lies on the management and coaching staff though, too.

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Old
05-15-2009, 12:57 PM
  #35
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The only ones I am really pissed about are Patrick Sharp and Pitkanen. The Sharp trade was horrendous for us. Clarke was a moron on that one. Pitkanen was one of my favorite players here. He played well (as well as an offensive d-man should play in his first couple of seasons), but his problems in the locker room or whatever led to his troubles in the defensive zone. The team didn't really handle him properly. I understand they didn't want to deal with his problems, but the kid had so much potential and there were definite flashes of that coming out in his first couple of seasons. Every young player, especially defensemen, has bumps in the road. And if you have a player with the potential of Pitkanen, you should try to give it all you got in order to smooth those problems out. Not just trade him for a quick fix.
Pitkanen sucked ass defensively and look uninteressted 85% of the nights. Nothing you can do about that as an organisation(and they did try a whole lot of things, trades and bringing in his buddies). Sharp was playing 4th line and was relatively unknown at that point. That dude they traded him for had accomplished more than he did so... Sharp was chased outta town by Hitchcock, not Clarke.

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Old
05-15-2009, 01:00 PM
  #36
Dig Out Your Soul
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
I always loved Joni Pitkanen. Sure he was an odd ball, but i don't believe he needed to leave to put it all together. Pretty disgusting how he was run out of town here by impatient fans and media pigs like Pinnachio.
I agree. But I'm also happy to see the few of us were mostly right about him. He's become a very good player.

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05-15-2009, 01:03 PM
  #37
Jester
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Pitkanen sucked ass defensively and look uninteressted 85% of the nights. Nothing you can do about that as an organisation(and they did try a whole lot of things, trades and bringing in his buddies). Sharp was playing 4th line and was relatively unknown at that point. That dude they traded him for had accomplished more than he did so... Sharp was chased outta town by Hitchcock, not Clarke.
Sharp asked to leave. He wasn't chased.

As for the bolded...you can have patience and watch as players develop...especially defensively. Pitkanen is a significantly improved defensive player right now, and still the dangerous skater/playmaker he was before. When Forsberg was out of our lineup that year, Pitkanen was quite literally the only playmaker on the squad, they were asking a lot of him. He led this team in assists...hard to do that in the NHL if you're uninterested 85% of the time.

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Old
05-15-2009, 01:13 PM
  #38
GoneFullHextall
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Mmmm, I wish we had a Dman who could play 28 minutes a game in all situations, handle guys like Lucic and Bitz physically and still outrace Kessel to loose pucks.

Even Maguire was raving about his conditioning, after he got stuck on the ice for an eternity in OT and never let up.

Ward is riding Joni's coattails as much as vice versa now.

Last night's line? 35:33 TOI (led all players by over 3 mins), 2 assists, +2.....
Guess you missed my point. Note I said Mentally.
Pitkanen is a talented kid. I am never going to deny that, but he is fragile mentally. He cant handle crtitisism.he doesnt like the spotlight you get in a large hockey market.
he couldnt handle it in Philadelphia, he couldnt handle it in Edmonton.
Hes playing well in Carolina. Why? because hockey is probably 5th or 6th in the lisr of things that people care about in Carolina.

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Old
05-15-2009, 01:28 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I agree. But I'm also happy to see the few of us were mostly right about him. He's become a very good player.
The fact that he was a massive disappointment in EDM plays no bearing on this? Look, he's a good player that can't handle big market hockey and it's proven it in 2 places.

When Desjardins, one of the classiest guys to play for the Flyers in recent years, comes out and says that Joni wasn't listening to coaching and was a locker room problem, I don't think you can just write that off to idle criticism.

I'm happy that the guy is doing well, but he's shown in 2 places that he can't handle the pressure of playing for a big-market team, and somehow the Flyers get blamed for this.

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05-15-2009, 01:44 PM
  #40
BringBackStevens
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The fact that he was a massive disappointment in EDM plays no bearing on this? Look, he's a good player that can't handle big market hockey and it's proven it in 2 places.
It's an interesting point, but look at all of the players Edmonton has acquired that just flat out failed there: Penner, Pitkanen, Lupul, Cole... then you have Pronger and Souray (reportedly) asking to leave. I'm not sure that's the best place to reaffirm the notion that it was the environment that caused Pitkanen to leave here.

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When Desjardins, one of the classiest guys to play for the Flyers in recent years, comes out and says that Joni wasn't listening to coaching and was a locker room problem, I don't think you can just write that off to idle criticism.
Absolutely, but it seems in this case there is more to it then just Pitkanen's personality. Lack of patience compounded the problem.

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I'm happy that the guy is doing well, but he's shown in 2 places that he can't handle the pressure of playing for a big-market team, and somehow the Flyers get blamed for this.
They don't deserve all of the blame, but i think they deserve a lot of it. Are you certain that Pitkanen would have not developed here? Of course no one can say that with certainty, so... the bottom line is it is the organization's duty to develop the player, and given the player showed he can do what he has done now, they certainly deserve a stake in the matter. Big market or small, i am not convinced that there wasn't some way they could have helped him thrive here. I don't buy much into the market thing, in the end these dudes are going out and playing hockey.

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05-15-2009, 01:55 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
It's an interesting point, but look at all of the players Edmonton has acquired that just flat out failed there: Penner, Pitkanen, Lupul, Cole... then you have Pronger and Souray (reportedly) asking to leave. I'm not sure that's the best place to reaffirm the notion that it was the environment that caused Pitkanen to leave here.
Penner has sucked and been lazy not to mention overrated in the 1st place. Pitkanen is a head case. Lupul has attitude issues if he doesn't have a coach that's going to ride him. Not sure about Cole. It was Pronger's wife that wanted to leave. Souray still unconfirmed.

That's 4 of your players rebutted with the exception of Cole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator
Absolutely, but it seems in this case there is more to it then just Pitkanen's personality. Lack of patience compounded the problem.
Possible, but it's worth noting that despite a good playoff run, Pitkanen still hasn't developed into the offensive force anyone really expected him to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator
They don't deserve all of the blame, but i think they deserve a lot of it. Are you certain that Pitkanen would have not developed here? Of course no one can say that with certainty, so... the bottom line is it is the organization's duty to develop the player, and given the player showed he can do what he has done now, they certainly deserve a stake in the matter. Big market or small, i am not convinced that there wasn't some way they could have helped him thrive here. I don't buy much into the market thing, in the end these dudes are going out and playing hockey.
I don't think some players can play in the big markets, look at all the baseball players that have failed in New York and Boston. Pitkanen obviously had a very tough time handling the crowd and you could tell that it really affected his game.

Obviously it's impossible to say, but until he got to a small-market, it seriously looked like he was moving quickly on his way to being a bust.

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Old
05-15-2009, 02:16 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
It's an interesting point, but look at all of the players Edmonton has acquired that just flat out failed there: Penner, Pitkanen, Lupul, Cole... then you have Pronger and Souray (reportedly) asking to leave. I'm not sure that's the best place to reaffirm the notion that it was the environment that caused Pitkanen to leave here.
I posted this back then, but on draft day 07 (before Pitkanen was traded) Al Morganti and Ed Moran were on Daily News Live. They mentioned Pitkanen asked to be traded to a team in a Southern climate which they thought was funny because he was from Finland. I have to wonder if it was the climate he was worried about or the market size since southern teams aren't big hockey markets. When Pitkanen was traded to Edmonton he never bothered to look for a place of his own. He lived in a hotel with his mother the entire time. Then he quietly asked to be traded in the offseason. I don't think he ever really intended to stay there and was biding his time until he could move on to a more comfortable market.

Funnily enough in those old TSN scouting reports they listed the fact that he had to play in Philadelphia as one of his flaws as if they knew he was a bit fragile for a tough market. When he was traded to Edmonton they had the same thing but changed Philadelphia to Edmonton.

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Old
05-16-2009, 08:04 AM
  #43
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It pisses me off that Fedotenko doesnt suck.

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05-16-2009, 09:11 AM
  #44
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it's a business, guys get dealt. i actually cheer for ex-flyers, unless they play for the penguins. pitkanen had maturity issues, which aren't a reason to hate someone. he's playing great now, but when the pressure comes, we'll see whether he can take it or not.

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05-16-2009, 10:54 AM
  #45
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It's not like any of them asked to be dealt. I wish them all luck.

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05-16-2009, 02:22 PM
  #46
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Pitkanen bothers me, but guys like recchi, brindy, seidenberg, and sharp I'm glad to see them doing well

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05-16-2009, 02:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sharp asked to leave. He wasn't chased.

As for the bolded...you can have patience and watch as players develop...especially defensively. Pitkanen is a significantly improved defensive player right now, and still the dangerous skater/playmaker he was before. When Forsberg was out of our lineup that year, Pitkanen was quite literally the only playmaker on the squad, they were asking a lot of him. He led this team in assists...hard to do that in the NHL if you're uninterested 85% of the time.
Sharp asked to leave because he was stuck with a coach that wouldn't use a young player if you held a gun to his head, so he knew his career was being destroyed. Thank God we dumped him before he destroyed Richards and Carter too.

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Old
05-16-2009, 09:29 PM
  #48
Larry44
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Guess you missed my point. Note I said Mentally.
Pitkanen is a talented kid. I am never going to deny that, but he is fragile mentally. He cant handle crtitisism.he doesnt like the spotlight you get in a large hockey market.
he couldnt handle it in Philadelphia, he couldnt handle it in Edmonton.
Hes playing well in Carolina. Why? because hockey is probably 5th or 6th in the lisr of things that people care about in Carolina.
No I didn't miss your point, it's just weak. People with mental fragility don't play like warriors in OT in huge games.

It's got nothing to do with the fans or the media or anything else. It's the hockey that really matters, but perhaps the inability to distinguish this key point is what holds this organization back. They sweat the unimportant stuff.

Pitkanen was young and homesick and didn't 'fit in' with the City Center Party boys. He needed some time to mature. Right now, he's playing better and longer than ANY of our D, Timonen included.

Impatient people, fans or management alike, make stupid mistakes.

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Old
05-17-2009, 01:42 AM
  #49
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Meh,,,,,,,, Dont feel so bad about Pitkanen's success in Carolina

Seems to be a good organization at getting young players heads straight.

Anton Babchuk has done well to build his career with that organization.

He was dumped by our GM in a purge of Russian prospects!

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Old
05-17-2009, 09:43 PM
  #50
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Williams and Sharp hurt. They'd fit in with Carter, Richards, et al.

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