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Offseason - how does the organization go?

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Old
05-15-2009, 01:20 AM
  #26
Bobby Smash
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Originally Posted by TheDuckz View Post
The Sedins would be a good fit with the Ducks for next season and then we would have all the secondary scoring we would need.
if they take a pay cut to stay together. two sets of brothers on the same team. neat.

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05-15-2009, 01:23 AM
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There are too many stupid comments in this thread to comment. LOL

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05-15-2009, 01:29 AM
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There are too many stupid comments in this thread to comment. LOL
hammond told me malkin is comin the kings via a 3 way trade with the Ducks...

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05-15-2009, 01:29 AM
  #29
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If either goalie moves it has to be Hiller. He's worth far more than Giguere at the moment but I'd rather have Giguere as our starter, despite the bad year. As far as offseason moves that need to be done, we need a second line, Teemu can't produce on his own and Ebbett was horrible in the playoffs.

I'd like to keep the D the same although that will probably be impossible. I thought Whiney was the weakest of the top 5 in the Detroit series, but he probably has more upside than Beauchemin and Wisniewski and will be the most likely of those 5 guys to be here next year.

We also need more grit up fron, other than our Carter, Marchant, Brown and our 1st line there was a huge lack of grit up front.

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05-15-2009, 01:29 AM
  #30
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There are too many stupid comments in this thread to comment. LOL
like what?

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05-15-2009, 01:51 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Amen. The third line was a real problem against Detroit in spite of Marchant playing far above my expectations. R Nieds and Miller are just that bad. Bad penalties, bad decisions with the puck, no scoring ability... need I say more.

Nokelainen for me was another big let down in the playoffs after closing out the season with some strong games. There was no clutch faceoff ability, no offense, and not much impact on the PK. Slot him into the 4th line center spot but don't expect any thing more if you ask me.

Carter was a bright spot. I want him on the 3rd line for sure and possibly the 2nd. When this kid puts it all together he's going to be a really good player.

Defense, its too hard to even speculate until S Nieds figures his ***** out. Again.
Hopefully the chat Murray had with him earlier didn't leave any ambiguity.

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05-15-2009, 01:59 AM
  #32
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If we have to choose, I'd rather Pronger back than Niedermayer. He was much better these playoffs, especially against Detroit and if he goes, who's going to quarterback our PP?? Whitney sure isn't capable of it and Niedermayers more of a rover, Getzlaf is pretty good but I'd prefer a defenseman back there.

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05-15-2009, 02:05 AM
  #33
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I guess the first question to ask is, should we try to contend again next year or try a mini-rebuild (sort of like our deadline). I think Murray has to be working the phones and see what steals he can get out there.
I'm kind of thinking mini rebuild. We have a lot of youngish tweeners who may or may not be able to make it in the NHL, and a lot of old guys ready to hang them up soon. Move a big piece or two (like a Pronger), play the young guys (QP, Nokelainen, Salcido, Festerling, Mikkelson, Carter, Miller, Ebbett, Beleskey, Wirtanen, Bodie, Kontiola) in a learning season.
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The 2nd question to me is do we change out team's 2 line scoring, 1 checking line, and 1 energy line strategy.

We've always had a matchup/checking line since 2003, and I know Murray hinted to Carlyle to get away from that in the new NHL, so I wonder what happens there.
Both Marchant and Rob are free agents, so this as good of time as any to make that change.
Yes, but just for this season. Like I listed, there's a lot of guys we need to fish or cut bait on. To do so, we're probably going to need to play 3 scoring type lines. Eliminate the 4th line, or water down the checking line, or something similar for next season only. After 09-10, you can make decisions on which young guys to keep, and sign some good bottom 6ers and be ready to contribute with the top-end core of Getzlaf-Perry-Ryan-Wisniewski-Whitney(? I'm still on the fence on him)
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No matter what, we have to do something with our 2nd line. If we're only going to have 2 lines that are expected to score goals consistently, they have to a much higher class.
IMO, to get an effective scoring line you can either have 1 anchor and 2 passengers (1 passenger has to be a semi-contributor with the anchor), or maybe 2 semi-anchors and a freeloader. I think the 2nd line was designed to have 1 anchor (Selanne) and 2 passengers (Ebbett-whoever). But this season seems to indicate that Selanne isn't an anchor anymore.

So we could either keep QP down there and have him anchor (he's probably still not quite ready to face the tough opposition of line 1), or maybe he and Selanne can be co-anchors.

In my wildest dreams, Beleskey proves ready for the NHL by a couple months, and can marinate on a soft minutes 3rd scoring line. Then he's ready for a top-6 role in 10-11. Oh, and we can actually keep Christensen to center that 3rd scoring line too, then hopefully dump him for a 3rd rounder or something (likely less than O'Dell, but oh wellz).
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I like Andrew Ebbet, but he is too weak defensively and barely above average offensively. He's a great extra/fill-in forward, but he can't expect to anchor a 2nd line.
He certainly was never expected to anchor a 2nd line. The hope was he could be a semi-contributor with Ryan since they had that chemistry in the A.

Ebbett is an interesting guy. Supposedly he was actually a decently responsible guy in college. That hasn't translated at all to the NHL yet though. He's not young, but he got a late start in the pros so he could have more polishing to do than a typical 26 year old, compared to say Christensen who's been a pro all this time and is likely pretty much done improving.

He was doing well in the regular season before this horrid postseason. One has to wonder if he can handle a tighter checking, rougher style of the playoffs (ie this is just the rookie learning experience) or if he's just too small to make it in the playoffs (sort of like how Franzen appears to be money in the playoffs because he thrives on the rougher, simpler style).
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Last offseason we tried to solve that with Brendan Morrison. The offseason before that we looked at Bertuzzi. One thing is clear, you can't rely on aging vets to get the job done in the new NHL. Selanne was a miracle we can't expect that to happen again.
It's not that you can't rely on aging vets per se. The real lesson is that signing bargain basement vets coming off poor/injured seasons is a risky proposition. Realistically, we all know it was pretty risky, but we didn't really have the money to sign a surer thing.

Sadly for us none of those longshots paid off.


Last edited by snarktacular: 05-15-2009 at 02:18 AM.
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Old
05-15-2009, 02:09 AM
  #34
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I'm gonna take a long drunken stab at this one. First I'll start with UFAs:

Todd Marchant-- Great fit as a 3rd line C IMO. Try to retain him for $1-1.5mil.
Rob Niedermayer-- Impact is diminishing, but if resigning him is the sticking point in negotiations with Scott, then he's still a solid bottom-six guy. Offer similar money as Marchant.
Scott Niedermayer-- If he wants to stay, he needs to decide in the summer. He likely only want a 1 or 2 year contract, which is fine because he may start to decline more rapidly at that point. Get him back for $12mil over 2 years because he's still worth it.
Francois Beauchemin-- I'd take him back at something like $8mil for 3 years, but I have a feeling he'll be hearing $3-$4mil per from someone else, and he will probably take it.
Bret Hedican Will probably retire. The Ducks will probably fill his role with a youngster.
Josh Green Solid at the veteran minimum.
Eric Bogunecki No idea.

Now for the RFA's (I'll stick with NHL guys)

Erik Christensen-- A bit on an enigma. There's something there but he never really seems to bring it even for a full game. Worth keeping around for a longer look if his price and term is reasonable.
Mike Brown-- Solid energy winger, will likely be signed for something along the lines of $2mil over 3 years.
James Wisniewski-- Has impressed since coming over at the deadline. Will likely want up to $2mil dollars per, but I wouldn't mind seeing his name on a longer term deal.
Brian Salcido--Might be pressed into duty if the Ducks lose 2 or 3 of Prongs/Beach/Nieds.
Petri Kontiola--Sign him and give him a crack at the top 6.
Brett Festerling--Will be a steady 6 or 7.

I think Pronger should be dealt, but only because he could bring quantity to fill some holes in our lineup which will likely be caused by free agency. There are a few teams in need of a talented-yet-nasty defenseman. Washington came to mind after watching them in the playoffs.
To Washington:
Chris Pronger
Andrew Ebbett

To Anaheim:
Shaone Morrison (Big steady young blueliner, one year left at $1.9mil)
Tomas Fleischmann (24 year old had 19 goals in 2nd full season, for some reason I could see him meshing well with Selanne)
Theodore (hear me out on this one)
2nd Round Pick

I also think Giggy is going to be the one to go this off-season (provided his personal situation could be solved). He is truly a good guy and I think he sees that Hiller is blossoming into a #1 goalie. If Anaheim came to him offering a good situation he may just take it. I think Edmonton would have to be interested.

To Edmonton:
Jean-Sebastien Giguere

To Anaheim:
Tom Gilbert (A lot of money on that contract, but has potential to be a good pucking moving D-man.)
Rob Schremp (starting to look like he's not going to get his chance in Edmonton. The Ducks need offensive depth at forward).

My lineup now looks something like this:

Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
Fleischmann-Schremp/Kontiola/Christenson/Carter-Selanne
R.Nieds-Marchant-Nokie
Miller/Beleskey/Bodie-Carter/Green-Parros

Niedermayer-Gilbert
Whitney-Wisniewski
Morrison-Brookbank/Festerling/Mikkelson/Mitera/Salcido

Hiller
Theodore (Decent veteran backup with an expiring contract, insurance if Hiller falters, also leaves us with almost $6mil in expiring goalies next summer when Luongo becomes a UFA).

That was harder than I thought.

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05-15-2009, 02:11 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
It's not that you can't rely on aging vets per se. The real lesson is that signing bargain basement vets coming off poor/injured seasons is a risky proposition. Realistically, we all know it was pretty risky, but we didn't really have the money to sign a surer thing.

Sadly for us none of those longshots paid off.
A lesson Murray should have learned watching Dave Taylor just up the freeway with failure after failure.

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05-15-2009, 02:13 AM
  #36
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Pronger stays(Unless we get an unreal offer)
Niedermayer will stay and sign for less
Giguere will go unless we decide to capitalize on Hillers value
Beauchemin is probably gone
Marchant will be back at a discount
Teemu will be back, and we'll have some help for him.
Second line center or wing WILL be addressed

We'll be better next year for sure, all we lack is secondary scoring. Ryan is going to give us 35-45 goals, Getzlaf should get close to 100 points and Perry I think will get close to 40 goals.

We were basically a good second liner away from winning the cup this year.

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05-15-2009, 02:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Spankatola Jamnuts View Post
A lesson Murray should have learned watching Dave Taylor just up the freeway with failure after failure.
True, but B.Mo and Bertuzzi was Burke. And Burke of all people has the hubris to think he could gamble better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
To Edmonton:
Jean-Sebastien Giguere

To Anaheim:
Tom Gilbert (A lot of money on that contract, but has potential to be a good pucking moving D-man.)
Rob Schremp (starting to look like he's not going to get his chance in Edmonton. The Ducks need offensive depth at forward).
I watched a decent amount of Edmonton games last season (fewer this season) to check up on Penner.

I like Gilbert. I think he can be a good one. He might be a little redundant with Whitney though.

Schremp, on the other hand, is trash. Soft, slow, perimeter player, all hands and no brain. I'm not sure if I thought more or less of him than Christensen before the trade deadline. In a lot of ways they're similar though.

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Old
05-15-2009, 02:17 AM
  #38
Paul4587
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Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
To Washington:
Chris Pronger
Andrew Ebbett

To Anaheim:
Shaone Morrison (Big steady young blueliner, one year left at $1.9mil)
Tomas Fleischmann (24 year old had 19 goals in 2nd full season, for some reason I could see him meshing well with Selanne)
Theodore (hear me out on this one)
2nd Round Pick
That's not nearly enough for Pronger, one of Carlson or Alzner, plus someone like Fleischmann or Fehr and a first rounder is the least I would take.

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05-15-2009, 02:18 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
True, but B.Mo and Bertuzzi was Burke. And Burke of all people has the hubris to think he could gamble better.
That and a loyal streak a mile wide, which is why players forgive him for his demeanor. I think he and Carlyle got along so well because Carlyle has the same loyalty virtue/handicap when it comes to guys who've been good in the past.

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05-15-2009, 02:22 AM
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Ebbett will be fine as long as we can get a good left winger, you need cheap production, he'll give us that, maybe Ryan plays on that line next year and we get someone to play with Getz and Perry on the top line. However it's a really weak year for free agent left wingers, it may have to be something via trade.

Interesting free agent center options:
Koivu
Sundin
Henrik Sedin

Only way we could sign the Sedins is to trade Pronger and Giguere, I don't see that happening, Koivu would be a great fit but i still think a winger is more necessary

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05-15-2009, 02:23 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's not nearly enough for Pronger, one of Carlson or Alzner, plus someone like Fleischmann or Fehr and a first rounder is the least I would take.
hell no it's not. the caps can forget about Pronger unless we're getting Alzner or Semin

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05-15-2009, 03:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Spankatola Jamnuts View Post
Hopefully the chat Murray had with him earlier didn't leave any ambiguity.
Nieds on his future:

Quote:
Niedermayer, 35, stands to become an unrestricted free agent July 1 but said he would give General Manager Bob Murray a decision on his plans “as quick as I can.
“I haven’t thought about it much,” Niedermayer said. “I will now. We’ve had a lot of fun playing the last few months. The team has played well. It’s been fun to be here. I’ll figure it out.”
Selanne sez:
Quote:
“I want to see what’s happening, what direction they want to go, and go from there,” Selanne said. “I feel I can really play at this level, and play well. I think it (a decision) is going to happen pretty quick.”
Sounds like Teemu will say yes to another shot and no to a rebuild. Give him somebody to play with and we can see happy Teemu again.

Make up your mind, Scott.

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/200...decided/13701/

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05-15-2009, 03:13 AM
  #43
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Do you think that the Blues will go after Pronger. It was rumored at the deadline. It would be really interessting what they would offer (my wish Perron + Pietrangelo).

Honestly I can really think of trading him and Giguere. The return would be fine and it would clean up a lot of money. It will definitaly help resigning Wiz, Beauchemin and some help up in front. I would also love seeing Pahlsson back.

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05-15-2009, 03:18 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Ebbett will be fine as long as we can get a good left winger, you need cheap production, he'll give us that, maybe Ryan plays on that line next year and we get someone to play with Getz and Perry on the top line. However it's a really weak year for free agent left wingers, it may have to be something via trade.

Interesting free agent center options:
Koivu
Sundin
Henrik Sedin

Only way we could sign the Sedins is to trade Pronger and Giguere, I don't see that happening, Koivu would be a great fit but i still think a winger is more necessary
Koviu and Selanne would be a great line. I am not much of a cap expert but would we really need to trade JS and Pronger to afford the Sedins? How much room do we have and how much will the Sedins be asking?

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05-15-2009, 03:29 AM
  #45
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Two words boys.

Secondary scoring.

Ebbett/Miller/Carter/Christensen = fail.

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05-15-2009, 03:30 AM
  #46
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If you make a run next season Koivu would be the best choice for the 2nd line center role...they have great chemistry with Selanne in the national team. Ebbett just isn´t 2nd line material and IMO not a very good center...he looks more of a winger.

Christensen gotta go...he didn´t bring nothing to the table.

Hiller and JSG: one of them is gone.

Scott or Pronger, one of them staying?

Wiz...lock him for a 2-3 year deal.

We need Marchant with paycut.

But the main thing is the team needs more scoring depth.

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05-15-2009, 03:33 AM
  #47
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Another thing, I love how it always comes to bite us when our back up goaltender steps up and becomes a potential starter. Always a good thing until the THIS happens.

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05-15-2009, 04:02 AM
  #48
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Here's what I would try and do:

Koivu $4.00M 1-year
Marchant $1.60M 1-year
R.Niedermayer $1.60M 1-year
S.Niedermayer $5.50M 1-year
Brown $0.60M 2-years
Bodie $0.50M 2-years
Wisniewski $2.40M 4-years

Carter - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan - Koivu - Selanne
Miller - Marchant - Niedermayer
Nokelainen - Ebbett - Brown/Parros/Bodie

Pronger - Whitney
Niedermayer - Wisniewski
Festerling/Mikkelson - Brookbank

Giguere - Hiller

Notes:
- Scott would be taking a slight discount to 5.5M or so and do another one-year deal
- Ebbett can get more experience under his belt and if he excels, earn the second-line C spot for next season.
- Carter IMO can hang with the big boys and has a blast that can cerate rebounds for Perry. Since Getz/Perry are so great, the winger doesn't have to be on their level.
- Koivu/Teemu could create some magic together.
- Beauchemin will get a big offer elsewhere and he's as good as gone. EC, I just don't see where he fits in unless it's with Getz/Perry on line 1 but I prefer Carter.

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05-15-2009, 04:18 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankatola Jamnuts View Post
Nieds on his future:



Selanne sez:


Sounds like Teemu will say yes to another shot and no to a rebuild. Give him somebody to play with and we can see happy Teemu again.

Make up your mind, Scott.

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/200...decided/13701/
Scotty will come back, I think the way he talked about the team says alot because most of it will be back

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05-15-2009, 04:20 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by TheDuckz View Post
Koviu and Selanne would be a great line. I am not much of a cap expert but would we really need to trade JS and Pronger to afford the Sedins? How much room do we have and how much will the Sedins be asking?
Koivu can still play and he's never had a winger like Teemu for a full season they have great great chemistry together

the sedins are tricky because individually they are each worth about 6 mil per, but because they are a package deal they should get 5 each and we cannot afford that

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