Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
You have to realize that Tomas Kaberle isn't even as good as Dan Boyle. Kaberle is even more one dimensional and defensively liable than Boyle. They are both good puck movers and on the PP, but Boyle is better at that too.
I think Kaberle is worth a mid-late 1st Round pick and a decent prospect... to a team that is up-and-coming and has tons of youngsters already. Like St Louis or Columbus potentially... since they both have young groups of forwards and solid goaltending. They both too have decent groups of defensemen... Columbus is big, strong and plays a very responsible game they don't really have a good puck mover. St Louis' D is younger, but still very serviceable with great youngsters like Johnson, Colaiacovo and Woywitka. Both teams had bad PP's this season, but made the playoffs anyways and then had bad PP's in the playoffs too. They could surely use a Dman like Kaberle to feed their skilled young forwards.
I think one of these deals might make sense for both teams.....
To STL:
Tomas Kaberle
To TOR:
1st Round 2009 (16th pick)
Brett Sonne
To CBJ:
Tomas Kaberle
To TOR:
1st Round 2009 (15th pick)
Stefan Legein
This way... STL/CBJ gets a good puckmover, and Toronto gets the mid 1st Round pick (to take one of Glennie, Kassian, Ellis, etc) and a good future 3rd/4th line character guy to play the role of a plumber. In contrast to popular belief among Leafers.... our 3rd/4th liners suck. They are either too weak, too slow, or don't have enough grit to be an effective plumber (ie: Stajan, Mitchell, Hamilton, Williams, etc). The only guys we have to fill that tole right now are Hagman, Mayers, maybe Poni and maybe Deveaux. Legein or Sonne would be another great skater that is tenacious on the puck, checks well and has some sort of leadership... and they each would have a bit of upside too.
You have to realize that Tomas Kaberle isn't even as good as Dan Boyle. Kaberle is even more one dimensional and defensively liable than Boyle. They are both good puck movers and on the PP, but Boyle is better at that too.
I think Kaberle is worth a mid-late 1st Round pick and a decent prospect... to a team that is up-and-coming and has tons of youngsters already. Like St Louis or Columbus potentially... since they both have young groups of forwards and solid goaltending. They both too have decent groups of defensemen... Columbus is big, strong and plays a very responsible game they don't really have a good puck mover. St Louis' D is younger, but still very serviceable with great youngsters like Johnson, Colaiacovo and Woywitka. Both teams had bad PP's this season, but made the playoffs anyways and then had bad PP's in the playoffs too. They could surely use a Dman like Kaberle to feed their skilled young forwards.
I think one of these deals might make sense for both teams.....
To STL:
Tomas Kaberle
To TOR:
1st Round 2009 (16th pick)
Brett Sonne
To CBJ:
Tomas Kaberle
To TOR:
1st Round 2009 (15th pick)
Stefan Legein
This way... STL/CBJ gets a good puckmover, and Toronto gets the mid 1st Round pick (to take one of Glennie, Kassian, Ellis, etc) and a good future 3rd/4th line character guy to play the role of a plumber. In contrast to popular belief among Leafers.... our 3rd/4th liners suck. They are either too weak, too slow, or don't have enough grit to be an effective plumber (ie: Stajan, Mitchell, Hamilton, Williams, etc). The only guys we have to fill that tole right now are Hagman, Mayers, maybe Poni and maybe Deveaux. Legein or Sonne would be another great skater that is tenacious on the puck, checks well and has some sort of leadership... and they each would have a bit of upside too.
I think you are pretty reasonable but the STL and CBJ pick this year would be closer to a #10 in most draft years. I think the first would have to be a 2010 1st. Otherwise I think you ar being quite reasonable. Good job.
No offense meant, but posts like this are as bad as the "Kaberle for Tavares" stuff. Kaberle is a top pairing dman on virtually any team in the league and he has an excellent contract.
I think alot depends on the team in question. For rebuilding teams he doesn't have much value to(so no use trying to use Kaberle as a way to move up in the draft) but for teams that have a good shot at the playoffs I can see them real interested in Kaberle(expecially with his contract).
I am guessing if Toronto was actively trying to trade him and looking for picks/prospects back, they might be lucky to get one of Dallas/Ottawa to bite for there first rounder at best but more likely to get a team like Buffalo or Columbus(teams in the 12-18 range) to give up there first and a good prospect.
You have to realize that Tomas Kaberle isn't even as good as Dan Boyle. Kaberle is even more one dimensional and defensively liable than Boyle. They are both good puck movers and on the PP, but Boyle is better at that too.
I think Kaberle is worth a mid-late 1st Round pick and a decent prospect... to a team that is up-and-coming and has tons of youngsters already. Like St Louis or Columbus potentially... since they both have young groups of forwards and solid goaltending. They both too have decent groups of defensemen... Columbus is big, strong and plays a very responsible game they don't really have a good puck mover. St Louis' D is younger, but still very serviceable with great youngsters like Johnson, Colaiacovo and Woywitka. Both teams had bad PP's this season, but made the playoffs anyways and then had bad PP's in the playoffs too. They could surely use a Dman like Kaberle to feed their skilled young forwards.
I'm pretty sure the Blues PP during the season was in the top 10 range.
It's somewhere between what Leafs fans think and what the rest of HF thinks.
I'd say a late 1st/early 2nd round pick and a cheap but talented young roster player.
Or maybe a 2nd, young roster player, and a good prospect.
A few examples:
Kaberle to Philadelphia for Luca Sbisa and a 2nd.
Kaberle to Phoenix for Nigel Dawes, Enver Lisin and a 3rd.
Kaberle and a mid-pick to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Chad Larose, and a 1st.
Kaberle and a mid-pick to Washington for Dave Steckel, Tomas Fleischmann, and a 1st.
Just throwing some ideas out there. Some may be a reach.
The guy is a top pairing defenseman in the prime of his career. He's becoming very, very underrated by some people.
It's basically a late first one year and a second the next for an elite defenseman.
Management is really high on Sbisa, and he already has had playing time as an 18 year old in our system. I know Kaberle would probably be worth it in the short term, but we need players like Sbisa in the future. Plus we aren't that great at picking defenders, and he looks like a sure-fire keeper, so I doubt we will trade him.
Bourdon or Marshall would go before Sbisa, both are very solid defensive prospects, and I think one of them would get it done. Here is what I would offer
Management is really high on Sbisa, and he already has had playing time as an 18 year old in our system. I know Kaberle would probably be worth it in the short term, but we need players like Sbisa in the future. Plus we aren't that great at picking defenders, and he looks like a sure-fire keeper, so I doubt we will trade him.
Bourdon or Marshall would go before Sbisa, both are very solid defensive prospects, and I think one of them would get it done. Here is what I would offer
1st, Bourdon/Marshall, Nodl, Carle for Kaberle
Quality, not quantity. Burke isn't interested in your castoffs.
Quality, not quantity. Burke isn't interested in your castoffs.
Haha ok, that did him pretty well this past deadline didn't it? What did he ask for that Leaf fans keep preaching? 1st, top prospect and a NHL ready player with upside, correct? NOBOBY was willing to give up that much.
Plus, how are they castoffs? Bourdon and Marshall are both quality defensive prospects, and Marshall could play as early as next season. Nodl is a solid NHL-ready prospect with 2nd-line upside, and Carle is a "young NHL player with upside." Hell he IS the young NHL player with upside that Burke is talking about.
A 1st, 2 mid-level prospects and an NHL ready player with upside is pretty damn close to 1st, Ty Wishart and Matt Carle. And it is probably the best you are gonna get from the Flyers.
I'd guess something like a top 10 pick and a average defense prospect. Toronto also has some cap relief, so they could probably swallow a bad contract as well.
For example:
To LAK: Kaberle
To TOR: 5th overall, Alec Martinez and possibly Tom Preissing (if LA wants to dump his salary)
Kaberles numbers are on the decline, from 05-06 to now they have gone down every year.
Well it could have something to do with his ice time decreasing year over year from 28 mins (05-06) to 23 mins (08-09). If you're not competing for a playoff spot, there's not a whole lot of reason to play your top defense pair for 1/2 the game.
If you watch him play, Kaberle's still one of the league's best PMD, but his supporting cast is not what it used to be... I like Stajan, Poni and White, but they're not Sundin, Mogilny or McCabe.
1st round pick and a decent prospect. Not JVR type of prospect, hell no. Maybe even a young developing player (RFA) with a few seasons under his belt on top of it, since Kabs still under contract.
Campbells type of trade but not Prongers type of trade.
JvR's value is nowhere near the pick that he was drafted with. When you spend so much time in the NCAA without really improving your numbers, your stock has definitely fallen. You're also not considering that its an UPGRADE to a 1st, not a first outright. At this point, Voracek & Gagner would definitely be considered better, with Alzner, Turris, Hickey having the potential to be.
The 7th overall + Kaberle is way too much for the 2nd. The talent dropoff between 2 and 7 isn't nearly as big as the fans on this board play it out to be. Maybe we include one of the 2nd rounders; but thats about it.
I honestly don't know what else to say to this. You seem to be very reasonable in other threads andthen talk out your backside when it comes to the Leafs.
The 7th is one of Brayden Schenn, Evander Kane or Jared Cowen!!!... all potential top line franchise talent.
You don't give up a current top line player and a potential future top line player for a potential future top line player with a slightly greater likelyhood of being a franchise player.
With Van Riemsdyk, if he's alone you're trading Top Line Player for Top Line Potential.... there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between the two.
Honestly, if you expect JVR + our 1st for Kaberle (or even just JVR straight up for Kabs) then go ahead and just keep Kaberle, miss the playoffs again next season and we'll keep JVR and whomever we get in the first with our 21st overall pick and have fun watching the playoffs for years to come with no less of a chance at the cup with JVR in the lineup as opposed to just 2 years of Kaberle.
Honestly, if you expect JVR + our 1st for Kaberle (or even just JVR straight up for Kabs) then go ahead and just keep Kaberle, miss the playoffs again next season and we'll keep JVR and whomever we get in the first with our 21st overall pick and have fun watching the playoffs for years to come with no less of a chance at the cup with JVR in the lineup as opposed to just 2 years of Kaberle.
If the leafs can't get at least JvR + a 2nd (which is the approximate cost of Toronto moving from #45 to late 1st round).... then they're much better off keeping Kaberle.
He's one of the league's best all around defenceman, and if you're not going to get at least one player with the chance to be as good as he is, there's no incentive in moving him. There's no reason for Toronto to take on Philly's garbage.
