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K.J.=Norris

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Old
03-24-2004, 03:05 AM
  #1
panayiotis
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K.J.=Norris

since the New Year he has been fabulous. Logging a ton of minutes for injured plagued unit. He is not getting much support for Norris. That is wrong. My choice for Flyer team mvp. No offence to Reechi.

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03-24-2004, 06:41 AM
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Johnsson has been our best defenseman, but he is not even close to Norris callibre. Before KJ, I would give it to: Blake, Pronger, Lindstrom, Leetch, Gonchar, Niedermyer, Chara, Redden, and Zubov.

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Old
03-24-2004, 08:07 AM
  #3
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Honestly I think he is probably one of the most underrated dman in the league. Although not at the level of a Norris candidate he will be there soon enough. He has improved tremendously from his first game with thte flyers untill now. Looking back at it I don't think Lindross was worth KJ straight up. If his +/- was a little higher and had a few more points he would get more consideration.

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03-24-2004, 08:07 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Johnsson has been our best defenseman, but he is not even close to Norris callibre. Before KJ, I would give it to: Blake, Pronger, Lindstrom, Leetch, Gonchar, Niedermyer, Chara, Redden, and Zubov.

Agree. He is good, but not that good. He does make some puzzling/scary moves in his own end sometimes. But, no doubt he has been great on the D for the Flyers all year. Ended up being a great trade for the Flyers with the Ranjerks.

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Old
03-24-2004, 08:41 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Johnsson has been our best defenseman, but he is not even close to Norris callibre. Before KJ, I would give it to: Blake, Pronger, Lindstrom, Leetch, Gonchar, Niedermyer, Chara, Redden, and Zubov.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Kim is up there right along with these guys:

1 SERGEI GONCHAR BOS D 65 10 46 56
2 BRYAN MCCABE TOR D 70 15 35 50
3 DICK TARNSTROM PIT D 75 15 35 50
4 MAREK ZIDLICKY NAS D 76 13 37 50
5 BRIAN LEETCH TOR D 67 15 33 48
6 CHRIS PRONGER STL D 74 13 35 48
7 SCOTT NIEDERMAYER NJD D 75 12 35 47
8 ROB BLAKE COL D 69 13 32 45
9 MATHIEU SCHNEIDER DET D 72 13 32 45
10 BRYAN BERARD CHI D 51 13 30 43 -
11 KIMMO TIMONEN NAS D 72 12 31 43
12 WADE REDDEN OTT D 75 16 25 41
13 SERGEI ZUBOV DAL D 76 7 34 41
14 KIM JOHNSSON PHI D 75 12 28 40
15 PAUL MARA PHO D 75 5 35 40
16 BRENT SOPEL VAN D 74 9 30 39
17 ZDENO CHARA OTT D 73 15 22 37
18 SEAN HILL CAR D 74 12 25 37
19 NICKLAS LIDSTROM DET D 76 10 27 37
20 ADRIAN AUCOIN NYI D 75 7 30 37


Kim is in good company.


Last edited by swflyers8*: 03-24-2004 at 08:46 AM.
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Old
03-24-2004, 08:51 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swflyers8
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Kim is up there right along with these guys:

1 SERGEI GONCHAR BOS D 65 10 46 56
2 BRYAN MCCABE TOR D 70 15 35 50
3 DICK TARNSTROM PIT D 75 15 35 50
4 MAREK ZIDLICKY NAS D 76 13 37 50
5 BRIAN LEETCH TOR D 67 15 33 48
6 CHRIS PRONGER STL D 74 13 35 48
7 SCOTT NIEDERMAYER NJD D 75 12 35 47
8 ROB BLAKE COL D 69 13 32 45
9 MATHIEU SCHNEIDER DET D 72 13 32 45
10 BRYAN BERARD CHI D 51 13 30 43 -
11 KIMMO TIMONEN NAS D 72 12 31 43
12 WADE REDDEN OTT D 75 16 25 41
13 SERGEI ZUBOV DAL D 76 7 34 41
14 KIM JOHNSSON PHI D 75 12 28 40
15 PAUL MARA PHO D 75 5 35 40
16 BRENT SOPEL VAN D 74 9 30 39
17 ZDENO CHARA OTT D 73 15 22 37
18 SEAN HILL CAR D 74 12 25 37
19 NICKLAS LIDSTROM DET D 76 10 27 37
20 ADRIAN AUCOIN NYI D 75 7 30 37


Kim is in good company.
OK, how does he compare +/- ? He has a decent rating, but how does it compare to league leaders at D position. I'm just asking. People seem to think the Norris trophy goes to the best offensive Dman. Even if it were rating the best offensive Dman, he is only 14th.

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Old
03-24-2004, 09:19 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisalo
OK, how does he compare +/- ? He has a decent rating, but how does it compare to league leaders at D position. I'm just asking. People seem to think the Norris trophy goes to the best offensive Dman. Even if it were rating the best offensive Dman, he is only 14th.

He is 20th in +/-

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Old
03-24-2004, 09:28 AM
  #8
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The play of a defensemen isn't something that is easily measured by statistics.

Scoring points is not neccesarily their primary role. It was for the Paul-Coffey-types, but those are a dying breed. A defensemen needs to be his goalies best friend first, score second.

In that respect, I don't think Johnsson has any business going up for the Norris. He is not used to shut-down top players and his defensive play is not outstanding. He is decent, but not great. Truthfully, I am not even sold on him being a bone-fide #1 d-man. While well-rounded, he is not exceptional in any area. He doesn't control a game offensively or defensively.

Kudos to Johnsson for having a great year, but that he isn't getting Norris attention comes as no surprise. Nor should he.

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03-24-2004, 09:28 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisalo
OK, how does he compare +/- ? He has a decent rating, but how does it compare to league leaders at D position. I'm just asking. People seem to think the Norris trophy goes to the best offensive Dman. Even if it were rating the best offensive Dman, he is only 14th.
So, he is 14th in points and 20th in +/-. Being 28 years old, it would seem to me that Kim will only get better. That's great news for us. Instead of having just Joni as a future Norris winner, we may have KJ as well.

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Old
03-24-2004, 09:36 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swflyers8
So, he is 14th in points and 20th in +/-. Being 28 years old, it would seem to me that Kim will only get better. That's great news for us. Instead of having just Joni as a future Norris winner, we may have KJ as well.

Yup, I agree. With Johnsson, Pitkanen, Markov, Ragnarsson (this guy is better than I thought he was) this team has a solid 4.

I really, really hated to see Woywitka go, I think he will be good someday.

Timander is a +12 in 29 games which is very, very impressive. Maybe this guy can play.

Malakov is old and probably done.

Desjardins might have 1 more year of decent play.

Picard, Ruggeri and Korovkin are coming and might make it in the NHL.

Jones looks decent.

Seidenberg is still in the picture.

No doubt, this team's D looks better than it ever has.


Last edited by sinisalo: 03-24-2004 at 09:44 AM.
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Old
03-24-2004, 10:17 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisalo
Yup, I agree. With Johnsson, Pitkanen, Markov, Ragnarsson (this guy is better than I thought he was) this team has a solid 4.

I really, really hated to see Woywitka go, I think he will be good someday.

Timander is a +12 in 29 games which is very, very impressive. Maybe this guy can play.

Malakov is old and probably done.

Desjardins might have 1 more year of decent play.

Picard, Ruggeri and Korovkin are coming and might make it in the NHL.

Jones looks decent.

Seidenberg is still in the picture.

No doubt, this team's D looks better than it ever has.

They should not pick up the Malakov option next year and use that money on a physical Dman. They really should look to have 7 guys on the blueline or even 8. I could see them pursueing Matvichuk (sp?) as I remember him being a favorite of Hitch in Dallas, and I think he is a UFA to be.

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Old
03-24-2004, 10:22 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisalo
Desjardins might have 1 more year of decent play.

Desjardins is such a smart and nasty defenseman. He'll be around for a few more seasons. He'll be like a Stevens for us and hopefully retires here. After a one bad season he has had two career years.

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Old
03-24-2004, 10:28 AM
  #13
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Defensemen are different from fowards as they rely more on positioning and the thinking mans game than quickness and reaction time which dwindle with age. This is one of the reasons that Stevens, Chelios ect. are effective into their 40's. Desjardins has more than one good year left.

As much as I love Johnsson, he's not a Norris caliber defenceman. He is however the next best thing.

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03-24-2004, 10:51 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Desjardins is such a smart and nasty defenseman. He'll be around for a few more seasons. He'll be like a Stevens for us and hopefully retires here. After a one bad season he has had two career years.

Good, I hope you are right. I have always liked Desjardins and still do. He has had a great career with the Flyers. 2nd best Dman this team has ever had.

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Old
03-24-2004, 11:09 AM
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I might consider Tarnstrom before Johnsson...maybe...

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03-24-2004, 11:11 AM
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He's not been Norris level, but he's been pretty darn good. He's really stepped up in Desjardins absence.

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03-24-2004, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper
I might consider Tarnstrom before Johnsson...maybe...
No way, Tarnstrom is subpar defensively. If you just look at numbers, then you may consider him, but if you look at his play often he does not belong in the same group as KJ.

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Old
03-24-2004, 03:20 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Johnsson has been our best defenseman, but he is not even close to Norris callibre. Before KJ, I would give it to: Blake, Pronger, Lindstrom, Leetch, Gonchar, Niedermyer, Chara, Redden, and Zubov.
As far as *THIS* season goes, no way does Lidstrom deserve it before KJ. Lidstrom is the best defenseman in the league, IMO, when he's playing his best. However, he *IS* having an off year. I suppose he was due... he's been so damn consistent anyway.

But I agree with the others.

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Old
03-24-2004, 04:20 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersPhantoms33
He's not been Norris level, but he's been pretty darn good. He's really stepped up in Desjardins absence.
agreed. I can't wait to see how the defense tightens up after Desjardins comes back. also, Malakhov.

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Old
03-24-2004, 06:45 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex88
They should not pick up the Malakov option next year and use that money on a physical Dman. They really should look to have 7 guys on the blueline or even 8. I could see them pursueing Matvichuk (sp?) as I remember him being a favorite of Hitch in Dallas, and I think he is a UFA to be.
Matvichuk isn't that great anymore. I think Malakhov is better at this point, but we would get no compensation for him. Perhaps Matvichuk will play up to the level he used to under Hitchcock, but I don't think it's worth letting Malakhov walk.

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Old
03-24-2004, 07:15 PM
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anyway, it's been said on these boards by Rangers fans mostly, that Malakhov might retire to Russia next year. he hasn't looked bad to me at all...I don't know.

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03-24-2004, 07:31 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Matvichuk isn't that great anymore. I think Malakhov is better at this point, but we would get no compensation for him. Perhaps Matvichuk will play up to the level he used to under Hitchcock, but I don't think it's worth letting Malakhov walk.
The games I have seen with him this year have been average, but he is not that old and I think Hitch could turn him around. I would not count him as a top 4 - last pairing, good vet, and hopefully regain his physical edge. It was more of a thought of who would be there that Hitch would really like.

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