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Luongo to Flyers?

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Old
05-19-2009, 12:47 PM
  #201
FrankMTL
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Agreed.

Why can't people ever just find a realistic middle ground?
What would be the fun in that???

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Old
05-19-2009, 12:48 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
What would be the fun in that???
Ha! Good point

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Old
05-19-2009, 12:51 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by T_Cage View Post
You are right, HF never ceases to amaze me either. However, if any Flyer fans think Vancouver will give you Luongo for Briere, Lupul, and Carle, then you are just as hilarious if not more. My favourite were the folks who thought two garbage contracts (Briere and Lupul) were TOO MUCH to give for ROBERTO freakin LUONGO.

It's like you have the full 'spectrum of stupid' in one thread.
Any trade for Luongo to Philly would obviosuly be contingent on Luongo signing an extention. Anyone that thinks Vancouver would take Briere and Lupul for him is a complete moron.

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05-19-2009, 12:55 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Reality? Yea, ok.

A 24 yr old 45 goal center, two of the top prospects in the world and draft picks? Seriously?

Luongo is great, but that's about as far from reality as you can get. No goalie in the history of the world has ever returned half that package, and neither would Luongo.
Really?

Patrick Roy was dealt for Jocelyn Thibeault who was a recent 1st round pick, 10th overall and who looked to be a solid young goaltending prospect who had played well for Quebec in limited action the year before, Martin Rucinsky who was another recent 1st round pick who would probably be comparable to Giroux (at the time then to the time now without hindsight), and Andrei Kovalenko who, again, was another somewhat recent first round pick.

JVR hasn't played a game in the NHL and his development hasn't really taken off to the levels that was expected.

Yes, Carter is probably worth a lot more than Thibeault was back then, but consider the fact that this trade was considered a bad trade even when it was made.

I don't see how this is all that dilusional.

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Old
05-19-2009, 01:04 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Still think that if a trade happens it will be Schneider for say a Gagne.(Luongo resigns with Van on Jul 1)

Phi give up alot but they create cap space and get a premier goalie prospect,who would start next year in Phi................Phi is almost at the cap already(keep in mind the cap can drop 3-5 mil the following year).......................Gagne as good as he is has had concussion proplems and other injury proplems..


Now phi may say that Schneder hasnt done anything or is just a prospect,but with the cap proplems and a future franchise goalie making 984,000 for 5.25 mil=4.26 cap space and gives them a big goalie.

have not added any 2nd or 3rd picks going either way,because how good does Holgrem see Corey S. and how desperate are they with the cap proplems.50 mil needing at least
5 players....two goalies,defencman,ability to bring up some young forwards.And I didnt put in Lupul as gagne is of course much better and game in game out solid.Think better than Varlomov and ithen its a fair price.

Gagne(premier scorer) for Franchise goalie and cap space.
It would have to be more than Schneider coming back for Gagne. That's just the way it is. We do need the cap space, but Gagne still has more trade value than that.

How about a deal involving JVR and Schneider? JVR for Schneider + 2nd?

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05-19-2009, 01:13 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Really?

Patrick Roy was dealt for Jocelyn Thibeault who was a recent 1st round pick, 10th overall and who looked to be a solid young goaltending prospect who had played well for Quebec in limited action the year before, Martin Rucinsky who was another recent 1st round pick who would probably be comparable to Giroux (at the time then to the time now without hindsight), and Andrei Kovalenko who, again, was another somewhat recent first round pick.

JVR hasn't played a game in the NHL and his development hasn't really taken off to the levels that was expected.

Yes, Carter is probably worth a lot more than Thibeault was back then, but consider the fact that this trade was considered a bad trade even when it was made.

I don't see how this is all that dilusional.
That's fine, you can think what you want. And as great as I believe Luongo is, he's not Patrick Roy (who had already won multiple Cups). And I still don't see that 45 goal scorer that he returned either.

If Vancouver decides they want to move Luongo (and I don't think that they will or they should), and Carter, JVR, Giroux and draft picks is the asking price, then they better just resign him, because no one, be it the Flyers or anyone else, is going to pay it.

The options are A) Resign Luongo (best option), B) Reduce your asking price, or C) Lose him for nothing if you don't reduce your asking price

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:23 PM
  #207
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What amazes me with HF is how many posters either dont bother to read post or just skim over them

His exact sentence:

"I would think that something around Jeff Carter, Claude Giroux, JVR and draft picks would get it done"


No where does he say all those players for Luongo, he sasys something around those players, in other words a package involving various assets, some of which may be in that list.

Now if he did indeed feel that package is what it is worth, then yeah, it seems a bit outlandish.

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:24 PM
  #208
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I think the Canucks ask for one of Gagne, Carter or Giroux, a Top-prospect, maybe a 1st.

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05-19-2009, 02:27 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It would have to be more than Schneider coming back for Gagne. That's just the way it is. We do need the cap space, but Gagne still has more trade value than that.

How about a deal involving JVR and Schneider? JVR for Schneider + 2nd?
Don't know about adding the pick, or perhaps maybe a lower pick like a 3rd or 4th, but this is definitely something that I think would benefit both teams.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
What amazes me with HF is how many posters either dont bother to read post or just skim over them

His exact sentence:

"I would think that something around Jeff Carter, Claude Giroux, JVR and draft picks would get it done"


No where does he say all those players for Luongo, he sasys something around those players, in other words a package involving various assets, some of which may be in that list.
Thank you. I didn't mean it to come off as all of them like you mentioned, and yes those are the various pieces that I think would be involved. Going back to my Roy example and even my analysis on it I never once mentioned the added draft picks coming back.

Regardless, I don't see how a Giroux/JVR/picks for Luongo alone would do it based on Philly's cap situation. Carter and one of Giroux/JVR + a pick would probably get it done.

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:27 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Lycanthropyre View Post
I think the Canucks ask for one of Gagne, Carter or Giroux, a Top-prospect, maybe a 1st.
That is probably a realistic scenario as what they would be looking for based on quotes from Gillis as to what he looks for in the way of players.

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:29 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
What amazes me with HF is how many posters either dont bother to read post or just skim over them

His exact sentence:

"I would think that something around Jeff Carter, Claude Giroux, JVR and draft picks would get it done"


No where does he say all those players for Luongo, he sasys something around those players, in other words a package involving various assets, some of which may be in that list.
Did you bother to read his next post? Carter, JVR, Giroux and draft picks was exactly what he meant, and he defended it by bringing up the Patrick Roy trade, and saying it wasn't that delusional.

If that's not the case, then let him respond by saying that's not what he meant, because up to now, he hasn't done so, and if that is what he meant, its not gonna happen.

Carter, JVR, 1st and Jones (salary dump) for Luongo signed longterm is about as much as you could ever hope for, and I don't know if Flyers management even thinks that would be a good idea.

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:30 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Thank you. I didn't mean it to come off as all of them like you mentioned, and yes those are the various pieces that I think would be involved. Going back to my Roy example and even my analysis on it I never once mentioned the added draft picks coming back.
Then why didn't you just say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Regardless, I don't see how a Giroux/JVR/picks for Luongo alone would do it based on Philly's cap situation. Carter and one of Giroux/JVR + a pick would probably get it done.
Carter, JVR, 1st, Jones for a signed Luongo (and minor piece). That is possible.

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05-19-2009, 02:31 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Did you bother to read his next post? Carter, JVR, Giroux and draft picks was exactly what he meant, and he defended it by bringing up the Patrick Roy trade, and saying it wasn't that delusional.

If that's not the case, then let him respond by saying that's not what he meant, because up to now, he hasn't done so, and if that is what he meant, its not gonna happen.

Carter, JVR, 1st and Jones (salary dump) for Luongo signed longterm is about as much as you could ever hope for, and I don't know if Flyers management even thinks that would be a good idea.
Look up two post. I accept your apology.

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:33 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Look up two post. I accept your apology.
I have nothing to apologize for. The conversation was between he and I, and until now, he never pointed out exactly what he meant.

You like to stir up trouble with Flyers fans in every thread, that much is obvious. You don't want to bark up this tree.

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05-19-2009, 02:33 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Then why didn't you just say that?


Carter, JVR, 1st, Jones for a signed Luongo (and minor piece). That is possible.
Frankly that package may be slightly more than the Canucks would expect, but that is based on my opinion only.

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05-19-2009, 02:34 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Frankly that package may be slightly more than the Canucks would expect, but that is based on my opinion only.
Its probably more than the Flyers would ever pay too, but its more realistic than Giroux being added in, and salary must go back to Vancouver in any deal because of our cap situation.

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05-19-2009, 02:35 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
I have nothing to apologize for. The conversation was between he and I, and until now, he never pointed out exactly what he meant.

You like to stir up trouble with Flyers fans in every thread, that much is obvious. You don't want to bark up this tree.
Really, how many guys responded the same why you did, what 3 or 4 in a very short period of time? What makes you think my post was directed at you? It was directed at ALL OF YOU, no one in particular.

You had no problem jumping in on this thread yesterday hijacking ongoing conversations, now your jumping on me for that? Time for you to look in a mirror.

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05-19-2009, 02:39 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Really, how many guys responded the same why you did, what 3 or 4 in a very short period of time? What makes you think my post was directed at you? It was directed at ALL OF YOU, no one in particular.

You had no problem jumping in on this thread yesterday hijacking ongoing conversations, now your jumping on me for that? Time for you to look in a mirror.
Maybe because you quoted my post?

That poster knew he would be flamed (he said as much in his post), so he got exactly what he expected. Now that he's clarified, we're all on the same page.

Where did I hijack anything ever? Go find one derogatory post of mine. I'm fairly well respected around here for trying to have a civil conversation without personal attacks. I purposefully didn't get involved between yourself and other Flyers fans because, quite frankly, that's not my business.

I don't get all crazy and rant and defend my opinion on this board like a pre-schooler. My post history indicates as much. Maybe you should check it out.

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05-19-2009, 02:43 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Maybe because you quoted my post?

That poster knew he would be flamed (he said as much in his post), so he got exactly what he expected. Now that he's clarified, we're all on the same page.

Where did I hijack anything ever? Go find one derogatory post of mine. I'm fairly well respected around here for trying to have a civil conversation without personal attacks. I purposefully didn't get involved between yourself and other Flyers fans because, quite frankly, that's not my business.

I don't get all crazy and rant and defend my opinion on this board like a pre-schooler. My post history indicates as much. Maybe you should check it out.
I quoted your post???????????????????????

My lord, you really have to work on your reading skills. Go back and look again, I never quoted anybodys post.

As for your last sentance, maybe you should reread your last few posts. I try to clarify something that was obvious to me that your and your fellow Flyer fans misread and you attack me. I dont think that does much for your precieved reputation.

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05-19-2009, 02:44 PM
  #220
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Might I humbly suggest....

Philly's best move is to re-sign Biron to the same deal he was just on for two more years, and to trade for or sign an elite prospect that is ready to play in the NHL?
  • Ditch Lupul somehow
  • Sign Biron 2 years at 3.5 million per
  • Sign The Swedish Monster ...or....
  • Trade for Schneider, Harding or Rask including one of Sbisa, Parent, Giroux or JVR as the primary asset going the other way.
  • Sign Morris or an equivalent veteran d-man for two years.
  • Offer Knuble a two year deal at a 1.25 per or let him walk

Cap friendly, achievable, possible and most likely.


Long term I see a problem in net for Philly, and the team has their best young talent locked up (and their old talent, but that's another matter), so really what is needed is a high end goalie that is ready to play now that can spot Biron and maybe take over for him next year and certainly the year after. Philly has a four year contending window....not one year.

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:47 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
I quoted your post???????????????????????

My lord, you really have to work on your reading skills. Go back and look again, I never quoted anybodys post.
Then my mistake. Now I will go work on my reading skills.

Of course, you have me confused with other Flyers fans who were arguing with you about Briere, so while I work on my reading skills, maybe you could work on your memory skills?

Luongo isn't going anywhere anyway.

*shrugs*

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05-19-2009, 02:52 PM
  #222
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Gagne, JVR, Sbisa and 1st

Probably something like what the Canucks would ask for, not sure if the Flyers would be willing to give that.

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05-19-2009, 02:54 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by SelKesler View Post
Gagne, JVR, Sbisa and 1st

Probably something like what the Canucks would ask for, not sure if the Flyers would be willing to give that.
I think we'd rather move Gagne than Carter, but I don't think they'll move Sbisa, to be honest with you.

And we'd still have to throw someone like Jones in the mix, because I'm assuming Luongo is looking for $7M. We can't handle that under the cap. Quite frankly, the Flyers really shouldn't be making a move for an elite goalie or an elite defenseman, IMO. With our cap situation, we should be looking for more economical ways under the cap to improve, and that doesn't require giving up so many assets.

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05-19-2009, 03:22 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Giroux, Coburn, 1st, 2nd for Luongo? Overpayment from Philly.

If Vancouver was re-building I'd take Giroux, 1st and a salary dump to make it work financially.
Over payment from Philly? Luongo is the best (if not in the top 3) goalies in the NHL. The odds of Giroux/Coburn/ or the first being as impactful as Luongo is highly unlikely. Look at what Montreal got in the Colorado trade, (Ruchinsky was a top line forward, the other player (built like a tank can't remeber the name though) was a 20-30 goal scorer, and Thibault was a highly rated prospect at the time. I love how people want quality but not willing to pay for it.

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Old
05-19-2009, 03:59 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Over payment from Philly? Luongo is the best (if not in the top 3) goalies in the NHL. The odds of Giroux/Coburn/ or the first being as impactful as Luongo is highly unlikely. Look at what Montreal got in the Colorado trade, (Ruchinsky was a top line forward, the other player (built like a tank can't remeber the name though) was a 20-30 goal scorer, and Thibault was a highly rated prospect at the time. I love how people want quality but not willing to pay for it.
Kovalenko is the guy your thinking of.

But in all reality you cant go by those previous values, there was no cap then, UFA was not near as prevelant.

The thing not talked about much would be the cap savings for Vancouver. Giroux and Coburn eat up about 2.2 million next season, saving over 4.5 million.

It would all depend on where Vancouver is heading. If they choose not to resign the Sedins and Ohlund, then a new direction is in order, they might as well deal off Luongo and really take a step in a different direction.

Giroux would be a hell of a linemate for Hodgson to grow with.

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