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Old
05-21-2009, 06:44 PM
  #101
mcphee
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
When Savard was fired, this was his nucleus:

Mark Recchi
Vincent Damphousse
Pierre Turgeon
Patrick Roy
Vladimir Malakhov

The rest was mostly pluckers. Even though it was pretty thin, it was stronger than what we have now.

Sure, Savard inherited a solid nucleus in 1984. But the same nucleus had gone sour for about 4 seasons. The Habs were written off as the Habnots by most hockey observers. His first 5-6 seasons as a GM were near perfect. The 88-89 Habs have to be considered a monster of a club. If not for some monster Flames, it was our season. In 93, we won because of momentum for sure, but we had Bellows and Damphousse and Muller, all 40 goal scorers.

In 86, youth and experience proved right.

Personally, I would take Savard in his prime. Today, as a president, I would take him only because he doesn't have time to be a hands-on prez. But he sure as hell commands respect in all circles. In fact, some people say that Bettman sees Savard's group as his favorite.
Savard and Gainey have similarities in stature.

Be honest, during his time, didn't you get frustrated because he seemed too patient ?

It's a bit different in hindsight , but that was the general feeling then, everyone else was getting sexy young players, Mtl wasn't, as the years went on. Sounds a bit familiar ehh ? Former captains, both guys that young players went to, both think before they speak, both played thru injuries that would put lesser men on the shelf.

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05-21-2009, 10:48 PM
  #102
deandebean
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Savard and Gainey have similarities in stature.

Be honest, during his time, didn't you get frustrated because he seemed too patient ?

It's a bit different in hindsight , but that was the general feeling then, everyone else was getting sexy young players, Mtl wasn't, as the years went on. Sounds a bit familiar ehh ? Former captains, both guys that young players went to, both think before they speak, both played thru injuries that would put lesser men on the shelf.
Absolutely true! McPhee, you always bring back to earth.

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Old
05-21-2009, 11:36 PM
  #103
Etienne
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I remember that I like Savard during his time as a GM but his drafts were below par (no Timmins there - Who was in charge of this?).
The fact remains that he got two cups.

I must admit that I prefer Gainey's style.

In both case we are dealing with part of the best years of the Habs. From these years I would prefer (in decreasing preference):
  • Gainey;
  • Robinson;
  • Savard;
  • Carbonneau.

But if you want to make money, Savard is the best... (although Gainey gave 48 millions to Gillet).

For now, I am pretty happy with what Gainey did and would give him another 3 to 4 years as a GM (Although I did not agree with firing Carbo!).

Anyway before looking at Gainey,we need a new owner.

If it is Savard, then it seems that Gainey is gone (and for me Gainey is by far superior to rookie Damphouse (is this serious)).

Let's give Savard what he got: 2 cups (merci Patrick).

Just hoping Gainey will stay there...

BTW, given the actual economics, I would be surprised that Gillet can sell the team because with a 15% ROI, he can get at most 300 millions (How much did he pay for the team?).

One final comment about Gillet, does anyone really think he cares about hockey???
He certainly loves the sport and the team enough to go on the road with them and write down a 120 millions check for a new training facility he didn't have to provide.

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05-22-2009, 12:44 AM
  #104
Hermamoud
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Can not answer to this one... Need some help here!

Where is that 120 millions free gift?
Does he looses money on this deal (looks like a bad deal to me)?
Going on the road... Did he go with his football team on the road?

BTW, did how much money did he spend on the Habs team?

Where was he as a hockey fan five years ago?
Did he follow his football team?

You present him as the best thing in Team owner... Is he?

Again, I need help from more knowledgeable people because my guts tells me otherwise.
I did not say he does not love the club. Just saying that it is a tool for him not the result!
All players are unanimous when asked about the Gillett family. They all say that they're the best owners that they could have (Latendresse just said that a few days ago on CKAC). When Komisarek's mother passed away, Gillett let him use his private jet to go home to attend the funeral and gave him as much time off as he needed.

Not only that, Gillett has invested a lot of money on the team. He gave carte blanche to Gainey for him to spend up to the cap, he built a training facility with the best training equipment available for his players, and he bought an enormous HD jumbotron for the Bell Center.

And maybe he didn't know a lot about hockey before he bought the team, but he became pretty knowledgeable. I remember during the golf tournament in 2007, he grilled Dany Dubé live on CKAC because Dubé predicted the Canadiens to finish 12th, and he used real facts about the team, not just "my team is better".

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:48 AM
  #105
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Who's to say Savard would do better in Montreal IN THIS ERA?

Both proved they could manage a team well in the previous era. Both had success. Check my other post. Evenmoreso, Gainey inherited an horrible team in Minnesota in 92, and almost entirely built it of his own hand, that same team that went to the finals two years in a row and won one cup, without the miracles of Saint-Patrick. If we consider that Savard inherited a much better team in Montreal in 83 than Gainey did in Minnesota in 92, we can presume that they are at least on equal grounds.

Savard didn't have to start a rebuild of the Habs when he came in, he already had many good players already in place. Savard never had to deal with everything Gainey has to deal with now. It's a much different situation, and people tend to forget how good Gainey was in Dallas, and all we need is a little patience because he knows what he is doing. Also you completely ignore the fact that teams who started a rebuild with new GMs have taken at least 8 years to win their first cup as shown with Dallas, Jersey, and Detroit. They all took between 7 and 9 years between the start of the rebuild and their first cup.



The nutcaseofcups brought this up.



Well, Roustan would also make a great owner, when thinking out of the box, this is an example of the kind of owner we need.

Both make great candidates, if they can both butt out from hockey operations.
you are leaving out one of the important differences between Gainey and Savard in that era... which is funny because I could swear I've read posts by you going on and on about how Gainey should be judged more favorably for his work right now for the very same reason...

any idea what I'm getting at?

come on now, think for a second...

"Evenmoreso, Gainey inherited an horrible team in Minnesota in 92, and almost entirely built it of his own hand"

yup... you said it... He inherited a terrible team... a team that had 5 straight top ten picks from '87-'91, including a 1st overall (Modano) who was the Key element to the franchises turn around.

Savard inherited a better team, but had to retool and reload his roster via later picks and trades since his team was never a bottom feeder before or during his tenure.

So, really, it's a bit of a stretch to compare Savard and Gainey's work in that period, since, as you so astutely have pointed out in the past, building a contender is so much easier when you benefit from drafting high for an extended period of time.

funny how this point, which you hammered home so strongly in past discussions, slipped your mind when formulating this reply... convenience perhaps?

anyways, to make my point clear, I'm not so much interested in comparing who is/was the better GM. Savard has more cups, which I suppose could end the discussion, but really it's pretty irrelevant.
I was more just surprised at how many posters were so quick to slam Savard, the last GM to lead this team to a cup, and a guy whose success as GM we all wish we could see again...

on a side note, why the need for shots like "nutcaseofcups"... you make a lot of good points in your posting, but it often seems to get very personal/insulting, really no need for that.

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