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Old
05-16-2009, 02:59 AM
  #1
Chelle
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Anaheim-Philadelphia

To Anaheim: Simon Gagne
To Philadelphia: Jonas Hiller

thoughts?

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Old
05-16-2009, 04:11 AM
  #2
Bobby Smash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelle View Post
To Anaheim: Simon Gagne
To Philadelphia: Jonas Hiller

thoughts?
yes, from an anaheim POV.

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Old
05-16-2009, 04:42 AM
  #3
Hockeypete49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelle View Post
To Anaheim: Simon Gagne
To Philadelphia: Jonas Hiller

thoughts?
Man that is a tough one to ponder. I would try to squeeze a pick out of Anaheim if possible.

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Old
05-16-2009, 05:18 AM
  #4
Dawit49
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What is wrong with Biron?

Hiller has 1 year left @ 1,300,000

Gagne has 2 year left @ 5,250,000

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Old
05-16-2009, 05:24 AM
  #5
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I'd think Giguere would be the expendable one now, not Hiller.

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Old
05-16-2009, 05:37 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
I'd think Giguere would be the expendable one now, not Hiller.
Agreed. There must be at least a few teams that would be interested in Giguere. I know he has a big cap hit but he has proven he can win.

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Old
05-16-2009, 06:27 AM
  #7
Bobby Smash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
I'd think Giguere would be the expendable one now, not Hiller.
doesnt have much trade value. large contract, worst year of his career, and a no-trade clause.

i dont want to say that hiller was a fluke but i think giguere will be motivated and will out play him in training camp and the pre season. giguere lost his job to brygalov in the playoffs, only to take it back the next season and lead his team to a stanley cup.

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Old
05-16-2009, 07:46 AM
  #8
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Gagne doesn't go for Giguere.

I'm considering this from a Philly standpoint, and I have to say yes.

It's pretty close to a no, but gigantic a part of this team Gagne is, Hiller is exactly what the Flyers need.

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Old
05-16-2009, 10:28 AM
  #9
captainpaxil
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gagnes not a player or a contract philly would want to deal. not to mention has a ntc. i know hillers playing really great right now but i still put him in the good young player categorie and thats not enough for me to put gagne on the block even up. myabe as past of a traditional package but anaheims 1st is going to be low and the propsect that most intrigued me went to pittsburgh. something like hiller marrk mitera and a 1st would be risky but doable.

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Old
05-16-2009, 10:28 AM
  #10
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Thats a lot of cap differential, but its hard to argue he's not worth it. I wonder if Murray targets someone younger (still on a entry level contract).

However, I think he would look great on the top line with Getzlaf/Perry or an a 2nd line with Selanne.

In Murrary's talk yesterday he said ownership usually lets him equal previous year's income, so cap may not be as big a problem I previously thought.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:01 AM
  #11
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Really interesting proposal. I agree that ANH's 1st would have to be involved as well. Would hate it (as an Oiler fan) if it went down because ANH would have 2 lethal lines with Ryan-Getz-Perry and Gagne-?-Selanne. Definitely helps PHI with cap relief and reliable goaltending when you consider they have a ridiculous abundance of talented forwards. The continued development of Giroux and JVR's debut may not entirely make up for the production lost in a trade of Gagne, but should be pretty close.

Props to the OP, I could see something like this happening, would be cool if you called it.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:19 AM
  #12
Shadow Flyer
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1) Is it even possible for Anaheim to take on the salary cap hit?

2) When has any goalie, let alone one who has started 69 games over two years (including playoffs), ever brought back a player like Gagne?

It has to be considered by Philly, since we need a goalie, we would save cap space, and we are strong up front. That said, past market value for goalies is well below the level of Simon Gagne.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:27 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
1) Is it even possible for Anaheim to take on the salary cap hit?

2) When has any goalie, let alone one who has started 69 games over two years (including playoffs), ever brought back a player like Gagne?

It has to be considered by Philly, since we need a goalie, we would save cap space, and we are strong up front. That said, past market value for goalies is well below the level of Simon Gagne.
So don't make the trade and have 5 more years of mediocre goaltending.

I actually think this is a solid trade proposal. Philly could definitely use the cap space and DEFINITELY could use a young goalie. Anaheim has 2 goalies and won't be able to keep both and certainly could use a forward like Gagne.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:30 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
So don't make the trade and have 5 more years of mediocre goaltending.

I actually think this is a solid trade proposal. Philly could definitely use the cap space and DEFINITELY could use a young goalie. Anaheim has 2 goalies and won't be able to keep both and certainly could use a forward like Gagne.
It is a solid proposal for a player we might not be able to keep in two years. If Briere could go I would never deal Gagne, but of course that's what happens.

Anyway Ana def has to include something. Hiller isn't going to pull Gagne alone.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:33 AM
  #15
Shadow Flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
So don't make the trade and have 5 more years of mediocre goaltending.
I never said the Flyers shouldn't make the trade, just simply asked a few questions that obviously you don't have an answer for. Nice quip though, well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
I actually think this is a solid trade proposal. Philly could definitely use the cap space and DEFINITELY could use a young goalie. Anaheim has 2 goalies and won't be able to keep both and certainly could use a forward like Gagne.
It's not that it isn't a solid proposal, but once again, GMs don't like to push the market value out there any further than they have to. Goalies have never brought this kind of return, so if Homer were to pull the trigger on Gagne for Hiller, he has just altered the future market value for the rest of the league. I know posters on HF don't really think about stuff like that, but GMs on NHL teams sure do.

The bottomline is that if some GM were to make an offer well above market value, and the Flyers really wanted Hiller, then maybe this could happen. But if that's not the case, why would the Flyers ever pay more than the market dictates?

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:49 AM
  #16
GKJ
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Wouldn't work. Anaheim would be capped out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawit49 View Post
What is wrong with Biron?
The next great Flyers goalie is always playing for someone else.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:52 AM
  #17
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this is a pretty interesting proposal and it could work for both teams...

my thing is this, I don't care who your goalie is, you have to have a good if not great supporting cast on the blueline to really win it all IMO - Luongo is supposedly the best goalie in the league but we all saw him lose it for Vancouver. I think the Flyers, before making a trade for goalie, should look to upgrading their blueline a bit. If they could land the likes of JBo AND Komisarek and retain Coburn, Timonen, Carle, Parent and have Alberts and Sbisa fighting out the 6th spot, I think a goalie of Birons caliber would suffice though Hiller would easily be a better option.

Pittsburgh beat us because they weren't scared to crash the net - there was no one on our blueline that anyone on Pitt was scared to go 1 on 1 against or battle it out in the crease and I think that is a huge problem.

The whole thing is hard to judge considering the situation of the Flyers and their cap. Though, if our team ended up looking like this next year I wouldn't even close to complain. (assuming Gagne goes for Hiller and Lupul is in some kind of deal for JBo)

Briere - Richards - Knuble
Hartnell - Carter - Giroux
Carcillo - Powe - Asham
Cote - Ross - Nodl

Timonen - Coburn
JBo - Komisarek
Carle - Parent

Hiller
??

With the players above, I added in 10.5 for Komisarek and JBo to the cap and works out to be just over 55 mil cap hit.

All in all, I don't see Gagne ever playing in another sweater.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:06 PM
  #18
FlyLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
So don't make the trade and have 5 more years of mediocre goaltending.
Christ, why does this have to be said in literally EVERY "Goalie to Philly" thread.

And how is Hiller that much less "mediocre" than Biron, that you have to come out and make a statement like that??

Biron put up a .918 and .915 Save percentages in his 2 years in Philly. Hiller put up a .919 save percentage this past season, and a .927 in 23 games last season. So where is this huge gap you speak of?


As for the proposal, something would need to be added from Anaheim, not all that much, but IMO Gagne is way too much to give up for a goaltender. He is a great great finisher, and would be missed a lot more than we think.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:08 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
this is a pretty interesting proposal and it could work for both teams...

my thing is this, I don't care who your goalie is, you have to have a good if not great supporting cast on the blueline to really win it all IMO - Luongo is supposedly the best goalie in the league but we all saw him lose it for Vancouver. I think the Flyers, before making a trade for goalie, should look to upgrading their blueline a bit. If they could land the likes of JBo AND Komisarek and retain Coburn, Timonen, Carle, Parent and have Alberts and Sbisa fighting out the 6th spot, I think a goalie of Birons caliber would suffice though Hiller would easily be a better option.

Pittsburgh beat us because they weren't scared to crash the net - there was no one on our blueline that anyone on Pitt was scared to go 1 on 1 against or battle it out in the crease and I think that is a huge problem.

The whole thing is hard to judge considering the situation of the Flyers and their cap. Though, if our team ended up looking like this next year I wouldn't even close to complain. (assuming Gagne goes for Hiller and Lupul is in some kind of deal for JBo)

Briere - Richards - Knuble
Hartnell - Carter - Giroux
Carcillo - Powe - Asham
Cote - Ross - Nodl

Timonen - Coburn
JBo - Komisarek
Carle - Parent

Hiller
??

With the players above, I added in 10.5 for Komisarek and JBo to the cap and works out to be just over 55 mil cap hit.

All in all, I don't see Gagne ever playing in another sweater.
I hope that is a net total and not a gross total because I can't see Komisarek and JBo getting a combined 10.5 million. As a Flyers fan, I don't want to touch Komisarek because I have a feeling he is going to get an undeserved monster contract solely because he's a big hitter. I see Komisarek getting over 5 million. If somehow the Flyers could bring him in under 4 million, I might consider it...but I doubt it.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:16 PM
  #20
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You can't be serious, can you?

Sean Avery had 8 goals in 41 games this year. Claude Giroux had 9 in 42. I guess we can now conclude that Sean Avery is as good of a goal scorer as Giroux.

Hiller was in his 2nd pro season, and this was his breakout one clearly. He's only 26 years old, and proved he can handle playoff pressures. He'll likely only get better each year.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:22 PM
  #21
DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
You can't be serious, can you?

Sean Avery had 8 goals in 41 games this year. Claude Giroux had 9 in 42. I guess we can now conclude that Sean Avery is as good of a goal scorer as Giroux.

Hiller was in his 2nd pro season, and this was his breakout one clearly. He's only 26 years old, and proved he can handle playoff pressures. He'll likely only get better each year.
I tend to agree with you, but how many times does a goalie have a breakout year only to never really reach it again? For the Flyers....Boucher, Esche, Niitty to some extent. Raycroft, Theodore elswhere. It's not a sure thing.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:23 PM
  #22
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Pretty damn close from a Flyers perspective. I don't think that Anaheim can take that much cap though.

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:31 PM
  #23
Shadow Flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Sean Avery had 8 goals in 41 games this year. Claude Giroux had 9 in 42. I guess we can now conclude that Sean Avery is as good of a goal scorer as Giroux.
Except when people compare Biron to Hiller, they are comparing two players who have the same job, stopping the puck. When you compare Avery to Giroux, you are comparing two players who have totally different roles on their respective teams. Nice try though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Hiller was in his 2nd pro season, and this was his breakout one clearly. He's only 26 years old, and proved he can handle playoff pressures. He'll likely only get better each year.
I like Hiller, but the list of goalies who had "breakout" seasons, only to fall back to earth, is much longer than those who went on to have stellar careers. Which tends to be the reason that goalies never bring the kind of return in trade that posters on HF suspect that they should.

Again, can you show me when a goalie with such inexperience, or any goalie at all for that matter, has ever returned a player the calibre of Gagne in a trade? Good luck...


Last edited by Shadow Flyer: 05-16-2009 at 12:39 PM.
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Old
05-16-2009, 12:35 PM
  #24
FlyLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
You can't be serious, can you?

Sean Avery had 8 goals in 41 games this year. Claude Giroux had 9 in 42. I guess we can now conclude that Sean Avery is as good of a goal scorer as Giroux.

Hiller was in his 2nd pro season, and this was his breakout one clearly. He's only 26 years old, and proved he can handle playoff pressures. He'll likely only get better each year.
Exactly, it was only his 2nd pro season, he could completely flop next year and we have no idea. His playing style is kind of unorthodox since he goes down into the butterfly all the time, and when more teams start shooting high, things might become a problem.

Claude Giroux has absolutely nothing to do with this, he is a forward where you can look at PPG and age and all that and project him all you want. Goalies are a hell of a lot different

Not to mention that you didn't address my point at all...How is Hiller that much of an upgrade over Biron that we would be stuck with "5 more years of mediocre goaltending" if we didn't do this deal??

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:42 PM
  #25
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Honestly, Hiller isn't ANY better than Biron. Hillers technique is average at best and he could EASILY e the next Jim Cary. Sorry, but Gagne culd return us a MUCH MUCH better and established goalie that Hiller.

Hiller would return a 2nd and a prospect/decent roster player, not a 1st line scoring winger. Remember, just a few years ago Gagne was what Fla wanted for Luongo and that's well before Gagne ever reached 40 goals a season. Gagne has only improved his worth and now you think he's only worth Hiller straight up???? Gagne for Hiller and your 09 1st, that's about fair.

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