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Old
05-17-2009, 06:51 AM
  #26
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13 QMJHL players selected ahead of Stefanovich in the 2008 draft. Won the Mike Bossy Trophy as best pro prospect and that's a bad thing? Toronto Maple Leaf fan, my butt.

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05-17-2009, 09:57 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Bad year for the Q I guess, if they think their best NHL prospect is a 4th round pick.

Historical draft results show most 4th rounders league wide have less then a 10-15% chance on average of ever making the NHL.
I know Mess, Stefanovich sucks dont you think? He'll never make it to the NHL

Historical draft facts show that Stefanovich is not your typical 4th rounder. If he was pegged as a first rounder in a strong draft and fell to the 4th round better for us? So the kid clearly established himself as a top player in the QMJHL, good for him and for us. So really "bad year for the Q", not really Mikhail Stefanovich fell due to work ethic, not talent. You should really brush up on your stuff.

Now lets look at our past 4th rounders in the last 5 years:
2008 entry draft - Mikhail Stefanovich
2007 entry draft - Matt Frattin
Ben Winnett
2006 entry draft - James Reimer
Korbinian Holzer
2004 entry draft - Roman Kukumberg

So now your telling me that Stefanovich does not stand out from the rest of our 4th rounders we have selected? I thought you were a "draft expert" not a Habs fan.

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05-17-2009, 10:02 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
13 QMJHL players selected ahead of Stefanovich in the 2008 draft. Won the Mike Bossy Trophy as best pro prospect and that's a bad thing? Toronto Maple Leaf fan, my butt.
Well I guess you have to look at the season he just finished.

It wasn't great.

He wasn't even a GAG player.

He wasn't even 1st. in goals in his league. Now some people will suggest that is because he only scored 12 PPG and those ahead of him scored 24 PP goals and that at even strength he was the run away goal scoring king in the QMJHL.

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05-17-2009, 10:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Well I guess you have to look at the season he just finished.

It wasn't great.

He wasn't even a GAG player.

He wasn't even 1st. in goals in his league. Now some people will suggest that is because he only scored 12 PPG and those ahead of him scored 24 PP goals and that at even strength he was the run away goal scoring king in the QMJHL.
First in goals was Riendeau with 58 and he played 8 more games. Stefanovich had 49 and was + 30. Riendeu is 1,5 years older. This is only a 4th round pick anyways. There is nothing to lose. Everybody is talking about rebuild but nobody has got enough patience to wait for prospects to develop. I personally would like to see Stefanovich and Stalberg on the same line with the Marlies next season. It's better than watching Battaglia again.

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05-17-2009, 11:28 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBM View Post
First in goals was Riendeau with 58 and he played 8 more games. Stefanovich had 49 and was + 30. Riendeu is 1,5 years older. This is only a 4th round pick anyways. There is nothing to lose. Everybody is talking about rebuild but nobody has got enough patience to wait for prospects to develop. I personally would like to see Stefanovich and Stalberg on the same line with the Marlies next season. It's better than watching Battaglia again.
That is the key to success for Stefanovich, who is pigeon holed a lot like his fellow countryman Grabovski is/was..

These kinds of players have to be on the top couple of lines and producing regularly offensively or they become fairly ineffective and not useful beyond that role. They love playing offense and not really that eager to play defensive or within a team system. Stefanovich didn't get a lot of ice time on Team Belarus at the WC and wasn't very effective in that event.

That is what makes them boom or bust type players, but teams need some of these offensive dynamos also because you can't teach skill, while you can defense (if they're willing to learn). Grabovski to me really looked like he was working hard improving his away from the puck play.

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05-17-2009, 11:56 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian-Rocket View Post
I know Mess, Stefanovich sucks dont you think? He'll never make it to the NHL

Historical draft facts show that Stefanovich is not your typical 4th rounder. If he was pegged as a first rounder in a strong draft and fell to the 4th round better for us? So the kid clearly established himself as a top player in the QMJHL, good for him and for us. So really "bad year for the Q", not really Mikhail Stefanovich fell due to work ethic, not talent. You should really brush up on your stuff.

So now your telling me that Stefanovich does not stand out from the rest of our 4th rounders we have selected? I thought you were a "draft expert" not a Habs fan.
I didn't say he sucked.. I along with others question how transferable his game is to the PRO North American game. He comes across as a KHL type player for big ice, less physical contact and a skill game.

No doubt on skill Stefanovich was ranked much higher going into the draft .. You call it "fell to the 4th round better for us", while I see 29 other NHL teams passing on him and preferring to take other players instead. This wasn't some magical event here that we got him late, or some stroke of luck as a non typical 4th rounder.. The other NHL teams left him on the board when it came time for Leafs to pick and 97 other players were drafted before him before leafs took him at #98 overall.. NYI made 8 selections before Stefanovich was taken, the King 6 picks,etc . Stefanovich had 32 goals and 66 points in 62 games in his rookie Q season so every team was aware of his offensive skills.

Heck our new GM Brian Burke then Anaheim's GM made 7 draft selections all before and none of which were Stefanovich as his choice. So clearly Burke and his staff last year didn't think very much of him, so why should that change in the course of a year now after he passed on him 7 times last draft.

Why do you think 29 other teams passed on him, and some of those that did have a reputation as strong drafters and finding talent.?

The answer is obvious and you can't find it by following a prospects progress using boxscores only.

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05-17-2009, 12:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
That is the key to success for Stefanovich, who is pigeon holed a lot like his fellow countryman Grabovski is/was..

These kinds of players have to be on the top couple of lines and producing regularly offensively or they become fairly ineffective and not useful beyond that role. They love playing offense and not really that eager to play defensive or within a team system. Stefanovich didn't get a lot of ice time on Team Belarus at the WC and wasn't very effective in that event.

That is what makes them boom or bust type players, but teams need some of these offensive dynamos also because you can't teach skill, while you can defense (if they're willing to learn). Grabovski to me really looked like he was working hard improving his away from the puck play.
Marlies will be a great envirnment for Stefanovich if the Stapler returns. He will have a chance to put up some big numbers.

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05-17-2009, 12:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuck View Post
Marlies will be a great environment for Stefanovich if the Stapler returns. He will have a chance to put up some big numbers.
You know the saying " One mans misfortune is another mans gain". The best opportunity for Stefanovich to become a Marlie might come as a result to the Dido long-term injury.

Just to add to your post and give some other discussion and perhaps alternate thought to that process of him being a Marlie.. Stef is a skilled offensive player so scoring goals at the AHL level would not come as a surprise.

The question is then, is this player worth while investing the development time, effort and cost into, if his game may not progress beyond a career goal scoring AHLer?

Burke and his team will clearly have other prospects marked and ranked that they might prefer more, and there is only so much ice time available. We will see soon enough what path Leafs take with Stefanovich, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if Burke wanted to give that prime AHL development time on the top lines to his signed or drafted players instead.. Case in point if Stalberg, Bozak and/or Hanson, or maybe even Tlusty again end up on the farm.. Leafs might want to give that top 2 line ATOI and PP time to these players instead, rather then bump them down the AHL depth chart to allow Stefanovich to do what he does best.

We all saw how a Alex Sublobov could score at the AHL level also with is 33 goals in 66 games in 2006, part of which came on the Marlies. His game though was not transferable to the NHL level after that and he now plays in the KHL as a result. This in fact I fear may be Stefanovich fate as well, unless his game evolves beyond just a great goal scorer. Jeremy Williams has an NHL shot and has proven to be a good AHL goal scorer, but his NHL future is as clouded as ever with the Leafs for example, because a player to survive in the NHL has to be able to contribute more then just goals.

Also Brian Burke and his coach Randy Caryle in Anaheim then didn't show any real desire nor preference towards Eastern European type players on Anaheim's NHL roster. Burke quickly tossed Bryzgolov on waivers, also most recently made no effort to get Nik Antropov signed, and has been trying to deal Pony as per rumours .. So I am just tossing that out for discussion that where these players were born and thus their styles of games, may not fit into the long-term building vision of our new GM .. We have historical references much like we have with Don Cherry as to the players they like and don't like.


Last edited by Mess: 05-17-2009 at 12:46 PM.
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05-17-2009, 12:37 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
That is the key to success for Stefanovich, who is pigeon holed a lot like his fellow countryman Grabovski is/was..
Both players started to play hockey in Europe. The game is very different there. Less physical contact, bigger ice with more passing and puck control in the middle of the ice. Those holes are the skills that were not important there. They are both hardworking and determined players like most of their countrymen, I'm sure that they will improve defencively. Grabovski once got cut in the playoffs in Russia. He lost two of his teeth, got 24 stitches and was back on the ice. He is no quitter. He played on a shut down line (their first line) with Belarus and he was effective in this role in the WC. He will improve again next season. Stefanovich never was in a situation where his defensive skills were required. QMJHL and Belarus League are offense only. Marlies coaching stuff will take care about that.

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05-17-2009, 01:14 PM
  #35
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Mess makes it sound like where the player is drafted determines his NHL fate. Clearly if Stef is to make the NHL, all 97 players drafted ahead of him must also make the NHL and do better by his logic?

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05-17-2009, 01:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlugia View Post
Mess makes it sound like where the player is drafted determines his NHL fate. Clearly if Stef is to make the NHL, all 97 players drafted ahead of him must also make the NHL and do better by his logic?
Exactly, this is not about passports. This is about development programmes and farm systems. It took two seasons for Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg to break out. Detroit evaluated the potential and patiently developed those players.

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05-17-2009, 01:36 PM
  #37
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Those who have seen Stefanovich play in the 07-08 QMJHL season and in the 08-09 QMJHL season will know how much he has improved physically , and defensively as well . But we should leave it up to his play whether in the AHL or in the NHL next season to do all the talking . Brian Burke has been quoted on saying that his "guys" are high on him , I am sure he has kept his eye on Mikhail . I am also sure Brian will let Stefanovich play for the Marlies in the AHL next season , and should be a call-up depending on his play . But he is for sure a very interesting prospect for the Toronto Maple Leafs .

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05-17-2009, 01:36 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBM View Post
First in goals was Riendeau with 58 and he played 8 more games. Stefanovich had 49 and was + 30. Riendeu is 1,5 years older. This is only a 4th round pick anyways. There is nothing to lose. Everybody is talking about rebuild but nobody has got enough patience to wait for prospects to develop. I personally would like to see Stefanovich and Stalberg on the same line with the Marlies next season. It's better than watching Battaglia again.
Correct you are:

Riendeau had 24 powerplay goals.
Stefanovich had 12 powerplay goals.

Riendeau had 34 even stength goals.
Stefanovich had 37 even stength goals.

McKeen's:

Quote:
good skating ability when he decides to move his feet .. big frame but does not use it enough .. needs to work a lot harder on his defensive game .. spends too much time looking for a teammate to get him the puck .. general play is very individualistic .. has shown some improvements in his overall intensity since last season.
...
a good skater (reminds me of a Marian Hossa skating stride, start up, especially with a bouncy first step, and change of direction), with decent transition ability, speed and decent acceleration, he stops moving his feet rendering him ineffective defensively and struggles to keep up when quick turnovers/transition overwhelm his respectable anticipation .. could be a bit more selfish taking shots where he passed it off .


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05-17-2009, 01:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlugia View Post
Mess makes it sound like where the player is drafted determines his NHL fate. Clearly if Stef is to make the NHL, all 97 players drafted ahead of him must also make the NHL and do better by his logic?
Where a player is drafted at least in recent drafts determines NHL teams interest in that player. It doesn't suggest nor dispute his NHL success in the future .. My point was simple .. 10 months ago our current GM Burke, while still in power in Anaheim made 7 entry draft selections and passed on Stefanovich each time.

Anaheim's 2008 top 7 picks
Quote:
2008 Entry 17 1 Jake Gardiner D Minnetonka H.S. (Minn.)
2008 Entry 35 2 Nicolas Deschamps L Chicoutimi Sagueneens [QMJHL]
2008 Entry 39 2 Eric O'Dell C Sudbury Wolves [OHL]
2008 Entry 43 2 Justin Schultz D Westside Warriors [BCHL]
2008 Entry 71 3 Josh Brittain L Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2008 Entry 83 3 Marco Cousineau G Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]
2008 Entry 85 3 Brandon McMillan L Kelowna Rockets [WHL]

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004643.html
Mikhail Stefanovich - Selected by Toronto Maple Leafs round 4 #98 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

So seeing that Burke had little to no interest in him only a short time 10 months ago, I for one am not surprised that he is luke warm towards Stefanovich now. If Burke was our GM last year based on the players he selected instead of him, its probably safe to assume Stefanovich wouldn't even be a Leaf prospect today.

I don't know what the future will hold for him, but I do know based on historical events what he was thought of as a potenial NHLer when 97 players were taken in front of him.

Stefanovich increased his junior totals from 66 points in his draft year to 76 points this last season, a mere 10 point increase and Leaf Nation fans seems to think we got the greatest steal of the 2008 entry draft all of a sudden, and willing to overlook everything else, missing from his game to make his a successful NHLer.

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05-17-2009, 02:17 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
So seeing that Burke had little to no interest in him only a short time 10 months ago, I for one am not surprised that he is luke warm towards Stefanovich now. If Burke was our GM last year based on the players he selected instead of him, its probably safe to assume Stefanovich wouldn't even be a Leaf prospect today.
Here is the thing though Mess :

TODAY , Brian Burke and his staff feel Stefanovich is a blue-collar prospect or that he is implying that Mikhail is this type of prospect . Now , I would take Burke very seriously of what he said about Mikhail recently , than what he probably thought of around a season ago .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Stefanovich increased his junior totals from 66 points in his draft year to 76 points this last season, a mere 10 point increase and Leaf Nation fans seems to think we got the greatest steal of the 2008 entry draft all of a sudden, and willing to overlook everything else, missing from his game to make his a successful NHLer.
Ridiculous .

Stefanovich increased his point production by 10 points , and 17 goals in 6 less games this his previous QMJHL rookie season totals . That's a difference from being a 1.06 PPG player and a 1.36 PPG player , in other words , a difference between a 87 point producer over a 82 game season and a 111 point producer over a 82 game season .

This is just a reason why Leafs fans are excited about him . But also that he has IMPROVED his defensive and physical play from the previous season . If he keeps this up he will be in the NHL .

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05-17-2009, 02:28 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Where a player is drafted at least in recent drafts determines NHL teams interest in that player. It doesn't suggest nor dispute his NHL success in the future .. My point was simple .. 10 months ago our current GM Burke, while still in power in Anaheim made 7 entry draft selections and passed on Stefanovich each time.

Anaheim's 2008 top 7 picks


Mikhail Stefanovich - Selected by Toronto Maple Leafs round 4 #98 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

So seeing that Burke had little to no interest in him only a short time 10 months ago, I for one am not surprised that he is luke warm towards Stefanovich now. If Burke was our GM last year based on the players he selected instead of him, its probably safe to assume Stefanovich wouldn't even be a Leaf prospect today.

I don't know what the future will hold for him, but I do know based on historical events what he was thought of as a potenial NHLer when 97 players were taken in front of him.

Stefanovich increased his junior totals from 66 points in his draft year to 76 points this last season, a mere 10 point increase and Leaf Nation fans seems to think we got the greatest steal of the 2008 entry draft all of a sudden, and willing to overlook everything else, missing from his game to make his a successful NHLer.
It doesn't look like much improvement in Burke's picks from last year to this year.

I'm sure I've read that players should improve as they get older.

Nicolas Deschamps
Left Wing
Born Jan 6 1990 -- Lasalle, PQ
Height 6.02 -- Weight 186 -- Shoots L
Selected by Anaheim Ducks round 2 #35 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft
decreased points total by 2

Eric O'Dell
Center
Born Jun 21 1990 -- Ottawa, ONT
Height 6.00 -- Weight 174
Selected by Anaheim Ducks round 2 #39 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft
More than double games played, doubled points total.


Josh Brittain
Left Wing
Born Jan 3 1990 -- Milton, ONT
Height 6.04 -- Weight 210 -- Shoots L
Selected by Anaheim Ducks round 3 #71 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft
1 more point


Brandon McMillan
Left Wing
Born Mar 22 1990 -- Delta, BC
Height 5.11 -- Weight 190 -- Shoots L
Selected by Anaheim Ducks round 3 #85 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft
Increased points total by 8 (49 points same as number of goals scored by Stefanovich).


Mikhail Stefanovich
Center
Born Nov 27 1989 -- Minsk, Belarus
Height 6.02 -- Weight 202 -- Shoots R
Selected by Toronto Maple Leafs round 4 #98 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft
Increased points by 10, increased goals by 17.

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05-17-2009, 02:40 PM
  #42
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And Riendeau

Was signed by the Bruins as a UDFA.

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05-17-2009, 02:52 PM
  #43
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Was signed by the Bruins as a UDFA.
I don't see what this has to do with the Leafs. Stay on topic.

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05-17-2009, 03:06 PM
  #44
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Quote:
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Here is the thing though Mess :

TODAY , Brian Burke and his staff feel Stefanovich is a blue-collar prospect or that he is implying that Mikhail is this type of prospect . Now , I would take Burke very seriously of what he said about Mikhail recently , than what he probably thought of around a season ago .

Ridiculous .

Stefanovich increased his point production by 10 points , and 17 goals in 6 less games this his previous QMJHL rookie season totals . That's a difference from being a 1.06 PPG player and a 1.36 PPG player , in other words , a difference between a 87 point producer over a 82 game season and a 111 point producer over a 82 game season .

This is just a reason why Leafs fans are excited about him . But also that he has IMPROVED his defensive and physical play from the previous season . If he keeps this up he will be in the NHL .
What would you expect Leafs scouting staff to say about him, after all they drafted him and its their scouting reputations on the line here and possibly even their own jobs as scouts. If you were the scout that recommended he be drafted would you say positive or negative things about him if your new boss asked for your opinion.

To me Leasty, actions speak louder the words.

In a recent interview Stafanovich gave, he said that NO one from Leafs management has been in contact with him about a contract. This was before the World Championships even and after his season was completed. Remember Burke got Dido signed before the QMJHL playoffs even began, so what is the hold up then?.

Mikhail went on to talk about his options of perhaps playing in the KHL next year, wasn't sure if they wanted him back in the Q as no one let him know one way or the other after the season. Also mentioned he would prefer to play for the Marlies next year if possible, but as of then had not heard anything about that possibilty from Burke. Glen Hanlon coaches the Belarus KHL team and he doesn't really like Stefanovich game, so that might not even be a viable options.

Stefanovich increased his goal total by 17 last year granted, while his assist total dropped and his overall points increased by 10.. Stefanovich reputation is that of a one trick offense pony that is selfish to the point of often wanted to just score goals and not use his teammates.. He also has a very care free attitude and doesn't always show up either.. His in crease in goals and decline in assists might suggest that its gotten even worse then better about wanting to be a one man show. He can score goals, no one questions that, but its all the other things that are of a concern and scouting reports are not all that flattering, calling him a perimeter player and often lacks effort and desire.

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05-17-2009, 03:09 PM
  #45
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17 goal increase, regardless of only 10 point increase, is pretty outstanding.

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05-17-2009, 03:17 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Correct you are:

Riendeau had 24 powerplay goals.
Stefanovich had 12 powerplay goals.

Riendeau had 34 even stength goals.
Stefanovich had 37 even stength goals.
Well ULF you will have to admit it..

It would be pretty silly for the QMJHL to award Yannic Riendeau with the Mike Bossy trophy as best NHL prospect, despite his statistical dominance this season, since he was passed through 3 entry drafts unselected.

Real life works differently though .. Leafs drafted Chad Rau and he lead Colorado College in scoring last season.. Yet they're taking their time deciding IF they even want to invest a ELS contract on him.. While on the other hand Christian Hanson and Tyler Bozak were undrafted previously, and were in strong demand and Burke pleased he got them signed because they show NHL potential..

Is Stefanovich just another Chad Rau at the moment to Burke?


Last edited by Mess: 05-17-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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05-17-2009, 03:24 PM
  #47
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Mess, you're reading too much into Stefanovich I think. Dido was signed a whole year and a half after he was drafted. Does Stefanovich not get the same luxury?

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05-17-2009, 03:31 PM
  #48
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17 goal increase, regardless of only 10 point increase, is pretty outstanding.
Stef had just 26pts in his first 24 games but had 50pts in the last 32. That is a more telling statistic than just an increase from the previous season. 38 goals in those 32 games. He was increasing his momentum against the league. If he scored 76 goals in 64 games would anyone be talking about him returning overage? They are just Junior stats but an 80 goal scorer this year would have made more headlines than Tavares.

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05-17-2009, 03:36 PM
  #49
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Mess, you're reading too much into Stefanovich I think. Dido was signed a whole year and a half after he was drafted. Does Stefanovich not get the same luxury?
That was my point I made earlier .. That Leafs own Stefanovich's rights for another full year until June 1st, 2010.. So there is no hurry nor immediate time line concern in place to get him signed.

That situation however though with the Leafs taking a position of "we'll wait and see", also leaves Stef a man without a team for next year..

Returning to the Q as Euro Import and Overage is not that likely because he uses two roster spots on only 1 player.. KHL is an option but Belarus is coached by Glen Hanlon and he doesn't seem to like Stefanovich.. IF Stefanovich wants to play for the Marlies he is going to need a contract of some sort in order to play.. Maybe Leafs will sign him to a ATO instead of a 3 year Entry level contract and take the next year to evaluate his progress.

At this point Stefanovich is unemployed and sitting around weighing all his options as are the Leafs also.. If they were really high on him you would think he would have been signed by now as his Q season ended some time ago, and Burke is not exactly swamped with GM duties presently.

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05-17-2009, 03:40 PM
  #50
LeafErikson*
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Victoria B.C.
Country: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
That was my point I made earlier .. That Leafs own Stefanovich's rights for another full year until June 1st, 2010.. So there is no hurry nor immediate time line concern in place to get him signed.

That situation however though with the Leafs taking a position of "we'll wait and see", also leaves Stef a man without a team for next year..

Returning to the Q as Euro Import and Overage is not that likely because he uses two roster spots on only 1 player.. KHL is an option but Belarus is coached by Glen Hanlon and he doesn't seem to like Stefanovich.. IF Stefanovich wants to play for the Marlies he is going to need a contract of some sort in order to play.. Maybe Leafs will sign him to a ATO instead of a 3 year Entry level contract and take the next year to evaluate his progress.

At this point Stefanovich is unemployed and sitting around weighing all his options as are the Leafs also.. If they were really high on him you would think he would have been signed by now as his Q season ended some time ago, and Burke is not exactly swamped with GM duties presently.
Who knows. But I don't see Burke, and the rest of the organization turning their back on a player who just scored nearly 50 goals in the CHL. He's too talented of an individual to not invest a little more money in, to see if he can't become a solid pro.

Even if he only turns into a career AHL scorer (Jeremy Williams), it's still worth the look.

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