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Is Nathan Horton worth a High Prospect?

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Old
05-16-2009, 10:57 PM
  #26
thadd
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Nobody is going to eat 4 mill for a player who MIGHT be worth the cap hit.

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Old
05-16-2009, 10:59 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acekicker123 View Post
Kaberle for Horton straight up.

Fair? If not, what would needed to be added?
Heck I'd give up the #7 for Horton (if Schenn is already gone).

Leafs would be lucky to develop a player at #7 that becomes like Horton, and he would already be the top forward on the team.

But since a lot of fans would be upset if they didn't have a 1st round pick, how about:

Kaberle + #7

for

Horton + #14


Plus there is no question that Horton can fit into Burke's requirement for "proper levels of pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence."

Horton has become really underrated, but he's one of the game's few power forwards and they usually take a bit longer to hit their primes.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:04 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt the Dog View Post
Heck I'd give up the #7 for Horton (if Schenn is already gone).

Leafs would be lucky to develop a player at #7 that becomes like Horton, and he would already be the top forward on the team.

But since a lot of fans would be upset if they didn't have a 1st round pick, how about:

Kaberle + #7

for

Horton + #14


Plus there is no question that Horton can fit into Burke's requirement for "proper levels of pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence."

Horton has become really underrated, but he's one of the game's few power forwards and they usually take a bit longer to hit their primes.
I definitely wouldn't like that deal as the Leafs...

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:13 PM
  #29
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I'll be more specific, would I give a top 2 draft pick for him this year? Nope! But below 3rd, sure, why not?

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:14 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
Boynton's a UFA.
So your essentially trading two first round picks (Suban's value is first round IMO) and 1 2nd round pick (Halak) for Horton who scored 45 points this year.

I'd be hesitant to give up a top prospect or a first, it all depends on the teams and how he's gonna bounce back this year. If he scores 20 goals, not impressed, trade value goes down.
I was sure Boyton had another year on his contract?

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:15 PM
  #31
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I would give up Boyes for Horton and the rights to Bouwmeester.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:33 PM
  #32
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He's a center huh? Can he play LW at all? I can't imagine the Kings would be interested unless he could play LW.

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:37 PM
  #33
JohnHodgson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
I was sure Boyton had another year on his contract?
nhlnumbers.com?

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Old
05-16-2009, 11:43 PM
  #34
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i could see the oilers and panthers making good trading partners

Someone like cogliano would be ideal

Nilsson, Cogliano and Staios

for

Horton and the rights to bouwmeester


Staios is a leader on the oilers, but i think he's the most likely leader on the team to move actually, Florida has a lot of size up fount and these two players from edmonton are both on good contracts and both have high upside. Staios on the surface is a bit of a dump, but i think martin will see the value in bringing his presence to a young panthers team.

i don't see philly making the briere JVR deal, and florida can't afford a large contract like brieres anyways imo, especially with his injury history

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:40 AM
  #35
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as a leafs fan... i'd do something like:


7th OV + 2 x 2nds

for

Horton + 1st 09' or '10 (top 8 protected)

could be tinkered with... but would look liek this.

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Old
05-17-2009, 01:26 AM
  #36
Creeping Death
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To LA
Horton
FLA 1st Round Pick (14)

To FLA
LA 1st Round Pick (5)

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Old
05-17-2009, 03:17 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
To LA
Horton
FLA 1st Round Pick (14)

To FLA
LA 1st Round Pick (5)
I'd consider that only if MSP is off the board at 5. I might even still want Schenn over Horton, but definately Horton over Kane since they are both power forwards and Horton is already established and can step in now.

I can't really figure out if the value is right though. I want to say LA doesn't give up enough... but then again, if Cammalleri was effectively worth moving up 16 spots from late to mid first round, I don't know that Horton, with his long term (and what I think is reasonably valued) contract, is worth moving up 9 spots in the draft from mid to high first. That's a tough one to value. On the one hand, its less spots than Cammalleri, and I think Horton is actually worth more than Cammy was, but on the other hand there is a big difference moving from low to mid first round and from mid to high first round.

Regardless, I would think Florida would want someone who could step in now, being on the cusp, unless LA has no one they want that LA will give up and they just want to move Horton to free up dollars for a UFA or something.

Maybe (contigent on all of MSP, Duchene, Tavares, Hedman are off the board),

To Florida
5th overall
Quincey

To LA
14th overall
Horton
4th round pick

or something. Who knows, maybe MSP is who Florida would want at 5 and if he's gone, then Horton all of a sudden becomes worth more to them.

These deals that involve high picks are really kind of impossible to value. It all comes down to how highly a GM covets a player, and its tough to really know who that player is for what team. All of these values are entirely respective and contigent on the draft board, and since everyone is in the same room in such an intense atmosphere, I'm sure the value in a GM's head of a player they are considering using as an asset in a trade or a pick they are planning to use on a certain player in the draft fluctuates constantly throughout the day. High pressure situations make for typical 'value', as we would consider it, to get thrown to the wind in a way.

I guess my point is that at 8am on draft day, Horton may be worth X, and at 10am he could be worth X+Y or X-Y.

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Old
05-17-2009, 09:13 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Well I was kind of just thinking out loud.

This is obviously a pipedream, but humor me for a second.

Briere, JVR, Bourdon, 1st (conditional)

for

Horton, JayBo's rights

- Briere is a #1 center or winger on Florida immediately. It's no question Florida needs offense, and Briere is an offensive weapon. That's his only job.
- JVR is a top 5 NHL prospect powerforward.
- Bourdon is a 2nd round pick from 2008 that has performed well in the Q all season. http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89545
- 1st is probably late teens, early 20s in a draft that apparently "rivals 2003". Don't know how much stock I'd take in that, but it's a 1st rounder. It's conditional on JayBo re-signing.

- Horton is a high pick from 2003 and there's no question of his abilities and physicality. He would obviously be a winger on Philadelphia. He can score and would add to Philadelphia's depth.
- JayBo's rights are JayBo's rights. With Briere gone we could try to sign him to a deal. There would obviously be ramifications to a long-term contract, but at $6.5m he'd replace Briere's long term salary at a position we need it for. Briere is awesome, but we need to bolster the defense. So Flyers in essence trade that salary for a positional need.

Gagne - Richards - Lupul
Hartnell - Carter - Horton
Powe - Giroux - Nodl
Carcillo - Kalinski - Asham
Cote

Timonen - Parent
Bouwmeester - Coburn
Carle - Jones

Obviously that lineup is cap compliant without goaltenders involved, but we'd HAVE to find a new home for Carle and Jones could be waived in order to fit in goalies. It's a stretch and a half, but a nice dream to think about.

Pipedream obviously, but whatever.
Cats fan here. I don't think its a pipe dream by any means. Sign me up for that deal.


Last edited by Biggzy*: 05-17-2009 at 09:18 AM.
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Old
05-17-2009, 09:26 AM
  #39
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Probably, how many prospects turn out as good as Horton?

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Old
05-17-2009, 09:40 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
To LA
Horton
FLA 1st Round Pick (14)

To FLA
LA 1st Round Pick (5)
I am a Kings fan and I say that is way too much for Florida to give up to move up 9 spots.

The Kings would be lucky to have the 5th overall pick be as good as Horton....but to get the 14th overall pick as well? I think the Kings would have to add at least a top tier prospect like Voinov, Moller or Simmonds to get that deal done.

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Old
05-17-2009, 09:41 AM
  #41
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Gomez, 1st (19th)

for

Horton, McCabe

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Old
05-17-2009, 10:24 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
He's a center huh? Can he play LW at all? I can't imagine the Kings would be interested unless he could play LW.
He's a lot better at RW than at center. Idk if he could play LW well, he's never really played there. I think his stats took a big hit this season because the Panthers moved him to center, and it took him a while to adjust. And even then, he didn't produce as much as he could have playing wing with a good center like Weiss feeding him the puck. Horton is a great passer, but he loves to shoot more, and he's more suited to playing the wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
Gomez, 1st (19th)

for

Horton, McCabe
No. Gomez is overpaid, Horton is not. McCabe maybe slightly, but not nearly as much as Gomez. Plus we can't give up two very good roster players for one and a 1st. We need to make the playoffs next season. It doesn't make sense for us.

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Old
05-17-2009, 10:33 AM
  #43
ecemleafs
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
He's a lot better at RW than at center. Idk if he could play LW well, he's never really played there. I think his stats took a big hit this season because the Panthers moved him to center, and it took him a while to adjust. And even then, he didn't produce as much as he could have playing wing with a good center like Weiss feeding him the puck. Horton is a great passer, but he loves to shoot more, and he's more suited to playing the wing.



No. Gomez is overpaid, Horton is not. McCabe maybe slightly, but not nearly as much as Gomez. Plus we can't give up two very good roster players for one and a 1st. We need to make the playoffs next season. It doesn't make sense for us.
i looked at the salaries and the panthers would be freeing up about 2m in cap space and getting a 1st rounder. gomez is overpaid but still has produced throughout his career. panthers would have a very good 1-2 center combo and would have a lot of money to get quality players in FA.

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Old
05-17-2009, 10:43 AM
  #44
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how about something around Horton for Gilbert both have a 4 mill cap hit and are signed long term. we could add more if needed.

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Old
05-17-2009, 11:52 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
i looked at the salaries and the panthers would be freeing up about 2m in cap space and getting a 1st rounder. gomez is overpaid but still has produced throughout his career. panthers would have a very good 1-2 center combo and would have a lot of money to get quality players in FA.
So what though, we free up 2m in cap space, but we still have to replace Horton at RW and go out and try to get another PPQB(McCabe is a 50+ pt. d-man when healthy) in free agency and those are very hard to find. Plus, we also need to add another top 4 defensive d-man in free agency this summer too because Bouw is leaving. You know how much that's going to cost? Gomez eats up too much cap space for what he brings. And he's signed for forever, there's no way we touch that horrible contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers4life5 View Post
how about something around Horton for Gilbert both have a 4 mill cap hit and are signed long term. we could add more if needed.
That sounds like decent value, but again, I maintain the Panthers 1)are not looking to trade Horton and 2)if they did, they'd want another forward coming back, not a d-man, and preferably a RW, unless they already signed a very good RW in free agency. Even then, I'm not sure because of Horton's upside.

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Old
05-17-2009, 11:53 AM
  #46
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Cats fan here. I don't think its a pipe dream by any means. Sign me up for that deal.
Same here.

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:50 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
nhlnumbers.com?
Thanks!

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:51 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
To LA
Horton
FLA 1st Round Pick (14)

To FLA
LA 1st Round Pick (5)
Wow......this is aweful! You go up 9 spot in teh draft and give up a gem like Horton? Pass on whatever you are smoking! I can use it

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:55 PM
  #49
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Vancouver may be interested.

To Vancouver:

Nathan Horton
Rights to Jay Bouwmeester


To Florida:

Kevin Bieksa
Michael Grabner
4th Round Pick
Rights to Mattias Ohlund



Too little?? Too much?? Help me out here.

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:58 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers4life5 View Post
how about something around Horton for Gilbert both have a 4 mill cap hit and are signed long term. we could add more if needed.
LOL good one.....

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