Also, Orr wouldn't be allowed to do those end-to-end rushes at will. He would also be less effective at it.
Bure seemed to do it at will in the clutch and grab era, and there's video evidence of Orr breaking through the neutral zone as fast as Bure ever did. Only smoother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Pengu
You need a slap in the back of the head. Wake up and start watching current hockey. Faster, stronger, more skilled, better trained.....etc.. Orr never had the chance to be as good as Crosby so it never happened. He was good yes, but don't just put him on this unreachable pedestal. I think it used to be:
1. Mario
2. Wayne
3. Bobby
Now:
1. Mario
2. Wayne
3. Crosby
4. Ovechkin
5. Bobby
Here's someone who actually saw Bobby play for Oshawa and never missed a game of his whenever on TV (saw him live playing for Boston 4x) so I can speak from somewhat of an authority.
If Bobby Orr played in todays NHL he wouldn't be an better than a 3 or 4th defenceman on any team.
But everyone has to realize the man is 60 years old!
In all honesty Bobby Orr real last swan song was the Canada Cup in which he played on one leg and with zero practice during the summer and with Team Canada (due to intense pain) and he was the Outstanding Player of the Tournement against the top players from around the world!
Gonna get fried for saying this, but I'm not convinced that he's be all that special of a player today that he was in the late 60's and early 70's.
The Average player today is bigger stronger and faster than the average player then.
Bigger and faster is going to eliminate the time and space that allowed Orr to skate around opposing forwards.
Even with todays training regiments and techniques, his size would prevent him from being a true shut down type defenceman.
I do think that he could be a point producing defenceman, but considering most of his points werre generated from his skating, I'm not sure we would see a dominate type of player.
Bure seemed to do it at will in the clutch and grab era, and there's video evidence of Orr breaking through the neutral zone as fast as Bure ever did. Only smoother.
Bure would wait at the blue line for a breakout pass most of the time. He wouldn't exactly do end-to-end rushes.
it's blatantly obvious to me very few people have watched more than a clip or two of Orr, you rank players based on what they did vs their contemporaries, Orr was by FAR the best dman in the game, 40 goal and 100 point seasons and he had his career cut short due to knee problems!
Orr was one of the greatest skaters of all time, he did what few players could...make plays at top speed.
He's the best dman ever, i'm tired of the hyperbole, Lidstrom is not close to him, no one is, the competition Orr had for Norrises was far greater than Lids
Bure would wait at the blue line for a breakout pass most of the time. He wouldn't exactly do end-to-end rushes.
He did it though. And having seen Mike Green who is neither as fast, smart, or creative as Orr do it regularly this year, I have no doubts that Orr would adapt just fine.
it's blatantly obvious to me very few people have watched more than a clip or two of Orr, you rank players based on what they did vs their contemporaries, Orr was by FAR the best dman in the game, 40 goal and 100 point seasons and he had his career cut short due to knee problems!
Orr was one of the greatest skaters of all time, he did what few players could...make plays at top speed.
He's the best dman ever, i'm tired of the hyperbole, Lidstrom is not close to him, no one is, the competition Orr had for Norrises was far greater than Lids
His competition for the norris was far greater? LOL i would disagree. The late 70's-1999 is when the competition for norris trophy was strong, not really 1967-75. He had brad park and an aging tim horton to compete against. The rest of his competition were people like barry ashbee, bill white, pat stapleton, jacques lapierre, carl brewer.
His competition for the norris was far greater? LOL i would disagree. The late 70's-1999 is when the competition for norris trophy was strong, not really 1967-75. He had brad park and an aging tim horton to compete against. The rest of his competition were people like barry ashbee, bill white, pat stapleton, jacques lapierre, carl brewer.
The HOFers he was competing against were Park, Horton, Laperriere and Guy Lapointe. It seems odd to compare Orr's peak years to over two decades of hockey, so let's go with Lidströms nine first years in the league (1991-2000), OK?
Yeah, I'd probably go with the 90s as far as competition goes, but that isn't meant to take anything away from Orr's dominance.
It would be like taking the first battle-tank from World War I and facing it off against modern armour.
No. Since Bobby Orr would have been born in the 80's, raised and trained in the 90's and made his debut in the 00's, he would have all the same modern advantages. Lighter equipment. Better knowledge about health and nutrition. Better knee surgeons.
If you must make a military analogy, imagine what Genghis Khan -- given his skill at high-speed, mobile, aggressive, shock-and-awe type warfare -- would be able to do given four brigades of mechanized infantry (with M-4's and SAW's, not bows and arrows), Bradley IFV's, Strykers and a couple squadrons of A-10's / AH-64's for close air support. He'd wreck some people. Same as Bobby Orr.
Very hard to tell, I think he would have been the best defencemen in the league. He would not win any scoring races or dominate like he did in the 70-ties though, the game has changed far too much for that to happen.
He did it though. And having seen Mike Green who is neither as fast, smart, or creative as Orr do it regularly this year, I have no doubts that Orr would adapt just fine.
Gonna get fried for saying this, but I'm not convinced that he's be all that special of a player today that he was in the late 60's and early 70's.
The Average player today is bigger stronger and faster than the average player then.
Bigger and faster is going to eliminate the time and space that allowed Orr to skate around opposing forwards.
Even with todays training regiments and techniques, his size would prevent him from being a true shut down type defenceman.
I do think that he could be a point producing defenceman, but considering most of his points werre generated from his skating, I'm not sure we would see a dominate type of player.
Quick. Someone tell Nik Lidstrom that because he is only Bobby Orr's size he can't possibly be the best shutdown defender(And best offensive defender) in the NHL these past 10 years!
Ray Bourque was a First Team All-Star for the first time in 1980, the year after Orr officially retired (although Orr did barely play due to injuries the last few years). Ray Bourque was a First Team All-Star for the last time in 2001.
Niklas Lidstrom won his first Norris trophy in 2001. He won last year and is a finalist this year.
The game has changed a lot over the years, but elite players have adapted. I don't see why Bobby Orr would be any different. True, he wouldn't look as dominant as he did playing in the watered-down late 70s. But he'd still be the best defenseman of all time and one of the best players of all time.
smoothness has nothing to do with how effective a player are
bure wasn't the smoothest nor the fastest, but he exploded the first metres which gave him enough space to do what he did
Bure could go from standing still to top speed in 3 strides. It was really fun to watch much of the time. He also had terrific top speed stickhandling and ability to beat opposing defenders 1 on 1 and undress goalies, with a sniper shot.
Orr was much the same in terms of acceleration, but had a higher top speed and could do more with the puck at top speed. Slow down, make cutting turns, walk completely around people, and he had eyes in the back of his head and saw the ice as if he were 200 feet above the rink, making blind 50 foot tape to tape saucer passes over opponents sticks and between legs right to a teammate.
He was the most special player ever to lace them up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
Ray Bourque was a First Team All-Star for the first time in 1980, the year after Orr officially retired (although Orr did barely play due to injuries the last few years). Ray Bourque was a First Team All-Star for the last time in 2001.
Niklas Lidstrom won his first Norris trophy in 2001. He won last year and is a finalist this year.
The game has changed a lot over the years, but elite players have adapted. I don't see why Bobby Orr would be any different. True, he wouldn't look as dominant as he did playing in the watered-down late 70s. But he'd still be the best defenseman of all time and one of the best players of all time.
Exactly. Orr today would likely be a combination of scoring on a higher pace than Mike Green, while playing Lidstrom level defense.
Bobby Orr from back then or Bobby Orr if he got all the advantages modern athletes get? Even though I think my answer is the same..
A better question- how would today's very best players perform in 1966 CCM Super Tacks ? 15" Gloves that weighed 2-3 pounds ? Heavy wooden sticks ? $75K a year after fighting and clawing your way to the NHL ? Someone tell me how Orr would not benefit from today's space aged skates. Sticks that weigh ounces. Nylon gloves that almost float and are broken in the day you try them on. Orr had no extra advantage over the other players of his ERA yet scored a plus - minus of +1 per every game in the NHL. Mind boggling.
There possibly wouldn't be defensemen like Green, Karlsson, Lidstrom, or even a few years back Bourque without Orr... He simply revolutionized the position, and with some NHL players playing his style, (of course with less skill, speed, stamina, etc,) he might not be high up. It's impossible to do so.
But he's easily the best/second best player of all time.
I have seen Orr play........The cat had SERIOUS wheels, and if he were playing today he would also be training the way modern players do ? He would be wearing modern skates, using modern sticks and equipment etc......He would be right up there at the top if he played today.....He was magnificent ! I cannot help but laugh my a$$ off when i hear certain folks compare Subban to Orr ? That is complete nonsense,and not fair to Mr Orr or Subban for that matter.
He would be like Erik Karlsson style of player but better. Similar style though but better on the defensive side, far more physical and strong, even more jumping in on the play, more goals.
Probably gets around 100 points, one of the best defensively even though he would jump into the play more than any other defenceman. He would win EVERY NORRIS TROPHY and be up for the Hart and win it several times. The biggest difference is that he would play his 28-30 mins a night in 45-60 second bursts and not for 2:00 to 2:30 stretches. It wouldn't really amount to much of a difference.
Orr wouldn't be able to just skate around and kill a PK himself playing keep away, but he wouldn't even try such tactics as they clearly would not be very effective. Orr was one of the smartest players ever, he would use his skill to its greatest effectiveness and obviously some tactics he used would not be possible with better competition. Orr faced great competition and terrible competition. Imagine the difference in facing the 1970's Habs versus the Seals, he already played very differently versus those different teams.
