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Old
05-17-2009, 08:14 AM
  #1
SufferingCatFan
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Bruins- Panthers

What about the Bruins trading Patrice Bergeron to the Panthers for Bret McLean, and a 3rd round pick in '09?

The Bruins need to clear cap space in the worst way in order to-resign Krejci and Kessel. This trade involving Patrice Bergeron for Brett McLean is a pure salary dump and is based, upon the assumption, that the Bruins need to clear salary and would rather dump Bergeron due to his injury history, than Savard. Bergeron is signed at $4.75 million through 2010-11. McLean is signed through 2009-2010 at $1.7 million, which is reduced to a $850,000 cap hit, if Boston waives McLean in the off season. This trade for Boston, thus, would clear $3.9 million in cap space in '09 (assuming McLean is waived) and $4.75 in '10. Bergeron, though undoubtedly talented, is a serious injury risk due to concession problems the past 2 seasons, and Boston can easily afford to lose him due to the its depth at center. The Panthers need a talented center in the worst way and, given their lack of depth at the position, should be willing to gamble on Bergeron's return to health.


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05-17-2009, 08:31 AM
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Then we can trade Chara for a 2nd, Kessel for Jay Pandolfo and a 4th, Savard for Mike Mottau and a 3rd and Thomas for JS Aubin and a Tim Horton's bread bowl.

We'd have tons of cap room!

and a bread bowl

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05-17-2009, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
What about the Bruins trading Patrice Bergeron to the Panthers for Bret McLean, and a 3rd round pick in '09?

The Bruins need to clear cap space in the worst way in order to-resign Krejci and Kessel. This trade involving Patrice Bergeron for Brett McLean is a pure salary dump and is based, upon the assumption, that the Bruins need to clear salary and would rather dump Bergeron due to his injury history, than Savard. Bergeron is signed at $4.75 million through 2010-11. McLean is signed through 2009-2010 at $1.7 million, which is reduced to a $850,000 cap hit, if Boston waives McLean in the off season. This trade for Boston, thus, would clear $3.9 million in cap space in '09 (assuming McLean is waived) and $4.75 in '10. Bergeron, though undoubtedly talented, is a serious injury risk due to concession problems the past 2 seasons, and Boston can easily afford to lose him due to the its depth at center. The Panthers need a talented center in the worst way and, given their lack of depth at the position, should be willing to gamble on Bergeron's return to health.


Flame away.
I'm a Panthers fan, and this trade proposal is terrible. We'd have to be giving up alot more for Bergeron.

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Old
05-17-2009, 09:23 AM
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Start with Frolik and add from there

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05-17-2009, 06:33 PM
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Then we can trade Chara for a 2nd, Kessel for Jay Pandolfo and a 4th, Savard for Mike Mottau and a 3rd and Thomas for JS Aubin and a Tim Horton's bread bowl.

We'd have tons of cap room!

and a bread bowl
LOVE IT!!!!

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05-17-2009, 06:53 PM
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Who the hell is Bret McLean and why would we trade Bergeron for him?

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05-17-2009, 07:42 PM
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How'd you manage to typo Brett McLean and a 3rd when you meant to write Michael Frolik and a 1st?

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05-17-2009, 08:09 PM
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How'd you manage to typo Brett McLean and a 3rd when you meant to write Michael Frolik and a 1st?
frolik would never be in this conversation.... not a good proposal

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05-17-2009, 08:21 PM
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Ib4l

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Old
05-17-2009, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FinlandKristian View Post
frolik would never be in this conversation.... not a good proposal
It was less of a proposal and more of a statement to show how ridiculous the original proposal was. By no means is Bergeron worthy of the "salary dump" label just yet.

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05-17-2009, 08:27 PM
  #11
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How about Phoenix gets a nice new rich owner that wants to keep them in Phoenix, then we trade the 6th and a bunch of stuff to Edmonton for the 10th and Souray and then we trade the 10th and maybe some other stuff to Boston for Bergeron? Better than McLean and a third, right?

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05-17-2009, 08:47 PM
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How about Phoenix gets a nice new rich owner that wants to keep them in Phoenix, then we trade the 6th and a bunch of stuff to Edmonton for the 10th and Souray and then we trade the 10th and maybe some other stuff to Boston for Bergeron? Better than McLean and a third, right?
Why do you need Bergeron when you already have Mueller, Turris, Hanzal, etc etc? I'm no expert but the way I see it, Phoenix needs more power forwards and grit (defense aside). Upshall was a move in the right direction, but he's not enough. I like where you started. Trade the 6th for the 10th and Souray (although that trade's somewhat unlikely IMO). Then draft Kassian with the 10th. Now the Hamilton Ice Dogs are set for a while.

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Old
05-17-2009, 08:53 PM
  #13
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Why do you need Bergeron when you already have Mueller, Turris, Hanzal, etc etc? I'm no expert but the way I see it, Phoenix needs more power forwards and grit (defense aside). Upshall was a move in the right direction, but he's not enough. I like where you started. Trade the 6th for the 10th and Souray (although that trade's somewhat unlikely IMO). Then draft Kassian with the 10th. Now the Hamilton Ice Dogs are set for a while.
Mueller has played center in the NHL for about 25 games of his entire career. He sucks at center. He doesn't make his linemates better, he doesn't back check, he doesn't win face-offs, and has ZERO hockey sense outside of getting into good scoring position. He basically hangs out, waiting for a good pass, and is quite capable of burrying it with a fantastic shot, when he does get the pass. Other than that, he kind of just floats around. He's like a poor man's Brett Hull. Not center. Never will be.

Hanzal is already an elite level checking line center. Who knows whether or not his offense will ever develop enough to make him a legit scoring line center. Most of us are fine with him playing the shut-down role. He'll be Selke caliber sooner than later. Nothing wrong with that.

Turris is too young. He was rushed and was not ready for the NHL, last season. If he wasn't even ready to be in the league last year, why would we assume that he'd be ready for a top center spot, this year?

Bergeron has grit in spades, BTW, and Kassian has Brad May written all over him.

Bergeron works hard enough for both he AND Mueller's lazy ass, and is good enough defensively to cover for the liability that Mueller is at this stage. Plus, his playmaking is good enough to help Mueller score the truckloads of goals he's capable of. It was just a couple of seasons ago that Bergeron had nearly fifty assists, and Mueller may just have a thirty five or fourty goal season or two in him.

As far as the Souray deal goes, obviously it would involve more than the 6th for 10th. Like maybe recent 1st round pick and local boy, WHL defenseman Nick Ross, as well as perhaps the 36th overall pick. I'm sure something like that may interest Edmonton, if they wanted to go the cut salary route, and decided they had enough offense on the back end.


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Old
05-17-2009, 09:01 PM
  #14
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Mueller has played center in the NHL for about 25 games of his entire career. He sucks at center. He doesn't make his linemates better, he doesn't back check, he doesn't win face-offs, and has ZERO hockey sense outside of getting into good scoring position. He basically hangs out, waiting for a good pass, and is quite capable of burrying it with a fantastic shot, when he does get the pass. Other than that, he kind of just floats around. He's like a poor man's Brett Hull. Not center. Never will be.

Hanzal is already an elite level checking line center. Who knows whether or not his offense will ever develop enough to make him a legit scoring line center. Most of us are fine with him playing the shut-down role. He'll be Selke caliber sooner than later. Nothing wrong with that.

Turris is too young. He was rushed and was not ready for the NHL, last season. If he wasn't even ready to be in the league last year, why would we assume that he'd be ready for a top center spot, this year?

Bergeron has grit in spades, BTW, and Kassian has Brad May written all over him.

Bergeron works hard enough for both he AND Mueller's lazy ass, and is good enough defensively to cover for the liability that Mueller is at this stage. Plus, his playmaking is good enough to help Mueller score the truckloads of goals he's capable of. It was just a couple of seasons ago that Bergeron had nearly fifty assists, and Mueller may just have a thirty five or fourty goal season or two in him.

As far as the Souray deal goes, obviously it would involve more than the 6th for 10th. Like maybe recent 1st round pick and local boy, WHL defenseman Nick Ross, as well as perhaps the 36th overall pick. I'm sure something like that may interest Edmonton, if they wanted to go the cut salary route, and decided they had enough offense on the back end.
Well, like I said, I'm no expert on the Yotes. You know better than I do.

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05-17-2009, 09:10 PM
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Well, like I said, I'm no expert on the Yotes. You know better than I do.
No worries. It seems everyone outside of Phoenix still thinks Mueller is the power center he was projected to be in junior. He was seen as a decent two-way center, with good playmaking ability, that protected the puck well, and was difficult to knock off his skates. I don't know where any of that went. So far, and I understand that he is very, very young, he's not like that at all. He doesn't move his feet, he doesn't work, and he doesn't pass. His one trick is to disappear in the offensive zone, reappear just in time to take a good pass, and then rip it home with an awesome shot. Beyond that, the only time you'll notice him in a game is because he'll be the only player not moving, or have just blown his coverage, or be sitting on his ass, just having been knocked to it.

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05-18-2009, 09:11 AM
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Yes, my proposal was completely one-sided and failed to represent anything close to fair value for a talent like Bergeron based upon past trade history. But, I would suggest that trade value in the NHL will be undergoing a rather dramatic transformation this off-season due salary cap implications.

Following the end of the lock out, the salary cap increased year-after-year allowing clubs that took on too much salary to continue spending their way through their signing mistakes. Not anymore. The cap is projected to remain relatively flat next season before falling to about $50 million in 2010-11. Please explain how the Bruins are going to be able to resign Kessel and Krejic, and add a puck moving defender etc. in the off season, while staying under the cap? Respectfully, someone has to go. Pick your poison.

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05-18-2009, 09:19 AM
  #17
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What about the Bruins trading Patrice Bergeron to the Panthers for Bret McLean, and a 3rd round pick in '09?

The Bruins need to clear cap space in the worst way in order to-resign Krejci and Kessel. This trade involving Patrice Bergeron for Brett McLean is a pure salary dump and is based, upon the assumption, that the Bruins need to clear salary and would rather dump Bergeron due to his injury history, than Savard. Bergeron is signed at $4.75 million through 2010-11. McLean is signed through 2009-2010 at $1.7 million, which is reduced to a $850,000 cap hit, if Boston waives McLean in the off season. This trade for Boston, thus, would clear $3.9 million in cap space in '09 (assuming McLean is waived) and $4.75 in '10. Bergeron, though undoubtedly talented, is a serious injury risk due to concession problems the past 2 seasons, and Boston can easily afford to lose him due to the its depth at center. The Panthers need a talented center in the worst way and, given their lack of depth at the position, should be willing to gamble on Bergeron's return to health.


Flame away.
they could get TONS more for Bergeron than that

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05-18-2009, 09:22 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
Yes, my proposal was completely one-sided and failed to represent anything close to fair value for a talent like Bergeron based upon past trade history. But, I would suggest that trade value in the NHL will be undergoing a rather dramatic transformation this off-season due salary cap implications.

Following the end of the lock out, the salary cap increased year-after-year allowing clubs that took on too much salary to continue spending their way through their signing mistakes. Not anymore. The cap is projected to remain relatively flat next season before falling to about $50 million in 2010-11. Please explain how the Bruins are going to be able to resign Kessel and Krejic, and add a puck moving defender etc. in the off season, while staying under the cap? Respectfully, someone has to go. Pick your poison.
If someone "has to go" (this has not been proven yet... didn't Carter "Have to GOEZ! last year in Philadelphia too?) then the person that "has to go" will be moved for a high draft pick not Bret ****ing McLean... i.e. a 4th line center making $1.7 million.

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05-18-2009, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
Yes, my proposal was completely one-sided and failed to represent anything close to fair value for a talent like Bergeron based upon past trade history. But, I would suggest that trade value in the NHL will be undergoing a rather dramatic transformation this off-season due salary cap implications.

Following the end of the lock out, the salary cap increased year-after-year allowing clubs that took on too much salary to continue spending their way through their signing mistakes. Not anymore. The cap is projected to remain relatively flat next season before falling to about $50 million in 2010-11. Please explain how the Bruins are going to be able to resign Kessel and Krejic, and add a puck moving defender etc. in the off season, while staying under the cap? Respectfully, someone has to go. Pick your poison.
Its possible that someone from the Bruins will have to go, but they're not gonna just give him away for free. Bret McLean is worthless. He's barely a 4th liner who makes close to $2mil, and a 3rd round pick is...well..a 3rd round pick.

Essentially, I think anyone who makes a trade proposal thread should just ask themselves, "If I were a fan of the other team, would I make this trade?" And the answer, 95% of the time is gonna be no.

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05-18-2009, 10:41 AM
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they could get TONS more for Bergeron than that
And what exactly do you have in your Mind ???
Sure, if you just watch the Player they can get a lot more........
But if you watch the situation... they get in trouble if they wanna keep Krejci and Kessel.

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05-18-2009, 11:12 AM
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And what exactly do you have in your Mind ???
Sure, if you just watch the Player they can get a lot more........
But if you watch the situation... they get in trouble if they wanna keep Krejci and Kessel.
Any team who wants to make a move for Bergeron (and the list is long) they'd be moving (at minimum) a 1st and a descent prospect or a 2nd and a good prospect on any entry level contract.

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05-18-2009, 01:39 PM
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Any team who wants to make a move for Bergeron (and the list is long) they'd be moving (at minimum) a 1st and a descent prospect or a 2nd and a good prospect on any entry level contract.
I agree with your assessment as to his trade value under normal circumstances. But, given his concussion issues the past 2 seasons, how many teams would be willing to take a chance on paying his $4.75 million contract through the end of the 2010-11 season, when the cap is expected to drop to $50 million? Unlike other injuries, such as ACL surgery, concussions are very difficult to assess especially where there is a 2 season injury history. Bergeron may be fine for the long term, or he may be 1 hit away from the end of his career. No one knows.

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05-18-2009, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
What about the Bruins trading Patrice Bergeron to the Panthers for Bret McLean, and a 3rd round pick in '09?

The Bruins need to clear cap space in the worst way in order to-resign Krejci and Kessel. This trade involving Patrice Bergeron for Brett McLean is a pure salary dump and is based, upon the assumption, that the Bruins need to clear salary and would rather dump Bergeron due to his injury history, than Savard. Bergeron is signed at $4.75 million through 2010-11. McLean is signed through 2009-2010 at $1.7 million, which is reduced to a $850,000 cap hit, if Boston waives McLean in the off season. This trade for Boston, thus, would clear $3.9 million in cap space in '09 (assuming McLean is waived) and $4.75 in '10. Bergeron, though undoubtedly talented, is a serious injury risk due to concession problems the past 2 seasons, and Boston can easily afford to lose him due to the its depth at center. The Panthers need a talented center in the worst way and, given their lack of depth at the position, should be willing to gamble on Bergeron's return to health.


Flame away.
Dude. Whats the matter with you?

Seriously

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05-18-2009, 01:58 PM
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I agree with your assessment as to his trade value under normal circumstances. But, given his concussion issues the past 2 seasons, how many teams would be willing to take a chance on paying his $4.75 million contract through the end of the 2010-11 season, when the cap is expected to drop to $50 million? Unlike other injuries, such as ACL surgery, concussions are very difficult to assess especially where there is a 2 season injury history. Bergeron may be fine for the long term, or he may be 1 hit away from the end of his career. No one knows.
So why trade for him then? It's important for other team's fans to understand why Bruins fans are so defensive about the Bergeron stuff around here. If you're playing armchair GM for your team, and you would like to propose a trade for Bergeron, then make the trade for his value sans concussion. If his concussion issues concern you, then don't propose a trade. But if you're going to propose a trade, then make an honest attempt to match up players/picks/prospects for Bergeron's actual value without the concussion stuff. If his head injury scares you, then don't propose it, because we all know that Boston is not in a rush to give away a 23 year old star center for nothing.

I'm not complaining at all, but it does get old to see crap like this proposed, and then defended with lines like "his career could be over with one hit." It's gotten to the point where he apparently has no trade value around here, yet he somehow gets a handful of new threads started every day.

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05-18-2009, 04:15 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
Yes, my proposal was completely one-sided and failed to represent anything close to fair value for a talent like Bergeron based upon past trade history. But, I would suggest that trade value in the NHL will be undergoing a rather dramatic transformation this off-season due salary cap implications.

Following the end of the lock out, the salary cap increased year-after-year allowing clubs that took on too much salary to continue spending their way through their signing mistakes. Not anymore. The cap is projected to remain relatively flat next season before falling to about $50 million in 2010-11. Please explain how the Bruins are going to be able to resign Kessel and Krejic, and add a puck moving defender etc. in the off season, while staying under the cap? Respectfully, someone has to go. Pick your poison.
Right, and if Florida was the ONLY team in the NHL interested in Bergeron, you could get him for nothing. However, there would be plenty of teams willing to out bid your garbage offer of crap.

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