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Old
05-18-2009, 07:57 PM
  #51
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I think the OP is vastly overrating Liles, as a function of Greg Logan's comments in Newsday. Logan speculated that if Col wanted to move up to 1st overall, Liles could be one of the chips. Personally, I'm not a huge fan. I basically see him as a better version of Chris Campoli - gnat sized with good offensive skills.

Anyway, pretty clear that Dallas takes it up the butt on all the deals posted here.
I think he's a much better version of Campoli. Massively in fact. If the Avs wanted to move him I dont think a 15-20th first rounder is out of the question. 8th overall is a dream though. But then again I somehow doubt they wanna move Liles. He's a great offensive defenseman who is on a decent contract and obviously loves his situation.

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Old
05-18-2009, 08:49 PM
  #52
Darth Milbury
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I actually think that Campoli might have had slight more market value. I'm don't base this on talent, of course. Obviously, Liles is the better player. However, Campoli makes about 1/4 of what Liles makes and is younger. Campoli at < 1 million is probably a lot more marketable than Liles with his contract.

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Old
05-18-2009, 09:57 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
I think you're missing the point. Avalanche fans would clearly do it. Dallas fans wouldn't touch this. JM Liles is probably not even worth the 30th pick, let alone the 8th.
3rd Overall, 33 Overall, and Liles for the 1st overall? Piss on that.

Liles isn't worth the 30th pick? Find me some other defenseman who've scored 12+ goals three of the last four seasons.

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Old
05-18-2009, 10:20 PM
  #54
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As an Avs' fan, there is no way I touch this deal. The gap between Duchene and Tavares/Hedman is not Liles and an early 2nd round pick.

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Old
05-18-2009, 10:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I actually think that Campoli might have had slight more market value. I'm don't base this on talent, of course. Obviously, Liles is the better player. However, Campoli makes about 1/4 of what Liles makes and is younger. Campoli at < 1 million is probably a lot more marketable than Liles with his contract.
Liles makes $4.2m/yr. Is that really that much of a burden? I think that's fair value for a player like Liles who can put up 40pts on a horrid team and play decent defense.

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Old
05-18-2009, 11:10 PM
  #56
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stories View Post
Liles makes $4.2m/yr. Is that really that much of a burden? I think that's fair value for a player like Liles who can put up 40pts on a horrid team and play decent defense.

I don't recall calling his contract a burden. The point is that Campoli makes less than a million a year. That has a lot to do with his market value.

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Old
05-18-2009, 11:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
Islanders Get:
3rd Overall Pick
8th Overall Pick
2nd Round Pick from Colorado

Avalanche Get:
1st Overall Pick

Dallas Gets:
JM Liles
Avalanche are rebuilding. How is giving up our best offensive dman who is also responsible defensively, and 3rd overall pick [most likely Duchene/low chance of Hedman] just to move up 2 spots to get a prospect who isn't that much better than Hedman/Duchene going to help?

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Old
05-19-2009, 12:04 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
i just want hedman > avs... i'd trade 3rd and liles for hedman.. .

frees up a spot/salary on the back end.. i'm not confident they can move clark's salary anyway..
If the Stars were actually willing to trade the 8th overall for Liles, I'd just draft Duchene and Kulikov. I think that's better than just Hedman.

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:48 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BennyBST View Post
As an Islanders fan I'd do this
But in reality Dallas wouldn't do this..

so here's my counter offer to make it more fair/realistic

To Islanders:3rd overall, 8th overall, Brett Clark (3.5 cap hit)
To Avs: 1st overall, Freddy Meyer (.675 cap hit)
To Stars: Liles, 26th overall (islanders), Jeff Tambellini (.625 cap hit)

Islanders: eat Clark's salary, we have the cap space for his contract. We select Duchene at 3rd and Cowen at 8th.

Avs: Select Tavares or Hedman, they get Freddy Meyer (who isn't worth much) who is alright if healthy and doesn't make much, giving the Avs some cap relief.

Stars: Get Liles to QB the PP, Islanders 2nd 1st round selection at 26th overall and Tambellini who will be a throw-in. Tambellini might benefit being traded so he gets a change of scenery and could possibly be more productive in Dallas.

thoughts?
Not bad. Islanders get the worst of that deal though

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:43 AM
  #60
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wow...just wow

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:55 AM
  #61
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Isles fans.... the quicker you realize that the #1 overall pick has no value on this board to a fan of any other team, the quicker you'll realize it's worthless to post these types of proposals.

I'm waiting to see someone come out and say they'd rather have the #2 pick than the #1.

That would be an HF first, but I'd still wager even money that I'll see it before June 26th.

(And the New York Islanders are proud to select, from the London Knights, John Tavares.... -- (followed by the sound of people from Ontario leaping from tall buildings and the remainder of the hockey world making up reason as to why Tavares sucks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane View Post

There's no way the Isles get that kind of a package for the 1st. Sorry.
Right. Yet it takes the 15th and 21st overall to move up 3 spots, but the 3rd overall, 8th overall, and a 2nd rounder isn't enough to move up to first overall and ensure oneself of a particular player.

What's it going to take for Tampa to move up a spot to ensure that they land Hedman? A signed stick by Vincent Lecavalier?

Sorry.


Last edited by cjdv16: 05-19-2009 at 07:27 AM.
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Old
05-19-2009, 07:27 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by New Jersey Devils View Post
wow...just wow
I said the same thing when the Canes scored 2 goals in the last minute in game 7 on your home ice.

Ouch


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Old
05-19-2009, 07:28 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Isles fans.... the quicker you realize that the #1 overall pick has no value on this board to a fan of any other team, the quicker you'll realize it's worthless to post these types of proposals.

I'm waiting to see someone come out and say they'd rather have the #2 pick than the #1.

That would be an HF first, but I'd still wager even money that I'll see it before June 26th.

(And the New York Islanders are proud to select, from the London Knights, John Tavares.... -- (followed by the sound of people from Ontario leaping from tall buildings and the remainder of the hockey world making up reason as to why Tavares sucks).



Right. Yet it takes the 15th and 21st overall to move up 3 spots, but the 3rd overall, 8th overall, and a 2nd rounder isn't enough to move up to first overall and ensure oneself of a particular player.

What's it going to take for Tampa to move up a spot to ensure that they land Hedman? A signed stick by Vincent Lecavalier?

Sorry.
These people think the Islanders should trade the Tavares pick for their first rounder and a ham sandwich. 90% the people on here just don't get it at all.

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Old
05-19-2009, 07:37 AM
  #64
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Wow. And I thought Isles fans over-valued their own players.

Welcome to the game Avs fans. JM Liles sounds a lot better on this board than I've seen.

For everyone "pissing" on proposals in this thread, strange things happen when GMs become enamored with a particular player. Assuming this is not the case, the draft will unfold just as many expect w/the Isles selecting Tavares, TB selecting Hedman, and Duchene falling to the Avs.

Should either TB or Colorado have a guy "targeted", only those GMs know what they'll be willing to pay to get that guy, assuming the Isles are willing to move down at all.

While I agree that the 3rd overall, a 2nd pair dman, and the 8th overall isn't going to happen to move up to 1st overall, it's going to take far more than a 2nd rounder alone, or JM Liles alone (as an Islander blogger suggested) to get that deal done.

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Old
05-19-2009, 07:40 AM
  #65
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Teams don't trade away the top pick for fair value. It takes an overwhelming offer. This applies to all sports. Look back on the few times a team traded the #1 pick and see what they got.

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Old
05-19-2009, 07:47 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Wow. And I thought Isles fans over-valued their own players.

Welcome to the game Avs fans. JM Liles sounds a lot better on this board than I've seen.

For everyone "pissing" on proposals in this thread, strange things happen when GMs become enamored with a particular player. Assuming this is not the case, the draft will unfold just as many expect w/the Isles selecting Tavares, TB selecting Hedman, and Duchene falling to the Avs.

Should either TB or Colorado have a guy "targeted", only those GMs know what they'll be willing to pay to get that guy, assuming the Isles are willing to move down at all.

While I agree that the 3rd overall, a 2nd pair dman, and the 8th overall isn't going to happen to move up to 1st overall, it's going to take far more than a 2nd rounder alone, or JM Liles alone (as an Islander blogger suggested) to get that deal done.
You didn't get the memo that stated JM has been proven to be better than Chara?

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Old
05-19-2009, 07:50 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
that's decent value wise for dallas (although I'm not sure I get the starved for offense part..)

the fact is Dallas does not need to trade for a defenceman at this point, if anything they would be the ones sending one out..
i meant on the backend...niskanen had a nice yr, and zubov is always a threat but for how much longer. the stars put up 230 goals, good for 9th in the WC...not a juggernaut but not starved so i stand corrected. my bad

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Old
05-19-2009, 08:09 AM
  #68
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Moderately altered suggestion:

TB: #1, #26, Liles, Figren, Kohn
COL: Lecavalier, Witt
NYI: #2, #3, Mihalik

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Old
05-19-2009, 08:26 AM
  #69
isles31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
3rd Overall, 33 Overall, and Liles for the 1st overall? Piss on that.

Liles isn't worth the 30th pick? Find me some other defenseman who've scored 12+ goals three of the last four seasons.
rough list im going with off the top of my head...souray, gonchar, lidstrom, chara, mike green(think its only 2 yrs but hes a better goal scorer), corvo, J.bo, mccabe, streit, weber, phaneuf, zidlicky, boyle, blake, niedermayer, pronger, zubov...i just looked at a list of teams and these are the guys that i thought of from each team. maybe more, maybe less

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Old
05-19-2009, 08:55 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
Ok. Because YOU said so. Thank you for your insight Hockey Guru
He is actually very right, no bloody way that Liles is worth a top 10 pick.

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Old
05-19-2009, 09:21 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Moderately altered suggestion:

TB: #1, #26, Liles, Figren, Kohn
COL: Lecavalier, Witt
NYI: #2, #3, Mihalik
So if I got this right:

NYI: moves down 1 spot and trades #26, Witt, Figren, and Kohn for #3 and Mihalik. End up with Tavares, Duchene, and Mihalik for Witt, Figren, Kohn, and #26. Not bad.

TB: moves from #2 to #1, ends up with Hedman, #26, Liles, Figren, and Kohn for Lecavalier and Mihalik. Way to good for TB.

COL: trades Duchene and Liles for Lecavalier and Witt. Are they looking to get older and more expensive? Vinny will be 30 and is on the hook for $7.7M until age 36. Witt will be 35, is already slowing down a bit, and has $3M for 2 more years. This is a move you make if you have lots of cap space and are two players away from contending right now.

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Old
05-19-2009, 10:29 AM
  #72
Ensane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Isles fans.... the quicker you realize that the #1 overall pick has no value on this board to a fan of any other team, the quicker you'll realize it's worthless to post these types of proposals.
...
What's it going to take for Tampa to move up a spot to ensure that they land Hedman? A signed stick by Vincent Lecavalier?

Sorry.
Amazing that you were able to flank your post with terrible strawman arguments!

Kudos.

Quote:
Right. Yet it takes the 15th and 21st overall to move up 3 spots, but the 3rd overall, 8th overall, and a 2nd rounder isn't enough to move up to first overall and ensure oneself of a particular player.
So what? In 2003 it took a journeyman forward and a 2nd rounder was enough to move up from 3 to 1.

I've spelled out why this year a package of #8, #3, and #33 isn't realistic. Don't get all uppity with me that you've decided to ignore the reasons.

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:01 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Wow. And I thought Isles fans over-valued their own players.

Welcome to the game Avs fans. JM Liles sounds a lot better on this board than I've seen.

For everyone "pissing" on proposals in this thread, strange things happen when GMs become enamored with a particular player. Assuming this is not the case, the draft will unfold just as many expect w/the Isles selecting Tavares, TB selecting Hedman, and Duchene falling to the Avs.

Should either TB or Colorado have a guy "targeted", only those GMs know what they'll be willing to pay to get that guy, assuming the Isles are willing to move down at all.

While I agree that the 3rd overall, a 2nd pair dman, and the 8th overall isn't going to happen to move up to 1st overall, it's going to take far more than a 2nd rounder alone, or JM Liles alone (as an Islander blogger suggested) to get that deal done.
umm... every avs fan has laughed at JM Liles being worth the #8 overall, we say he's worth a late 1st or a second depending. Sadly enough, he is our best defenseman

and considering how high the avs are on duchene, at #3 it's not worth both Liles and a high second to move up to tavares, at #4 it might be

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Old
05-19-2009, 12:37 PM
  #74
Darth Milbury
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Avs fans have been totally reasonable in this thread (as Col fans are in general).

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Old
05-19-2009, 02:08 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
rough list im going with off the top of my head...souray, gonchar, lidstrom, chara, mike green(think its only 2 yrs but hes a better goal scorer), corvo, J.bo, mccabe, streit, weber, phaneuf, zidlicky, boyle, blake, niedermayer, pronger, zubov...i just looked at a list of teams and these are the guys that i thought of from each team. maybe more, maybe less
The one's I bolded haven't done it. And the ones I haven't are widely considered All-Star defensemen (save for Souray/McCabe).

So, for someone to suggest that Liles isn't worth the 30th overall pick is laughable.

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