HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lundmark....

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2004, 02:05 PM
  #1
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Lundmark....

From an old Central Scouting Report on Lundmark:

A very good skater with quick acceleration. Very solid on his skates and has tremendous balance and mobility. Displays exceptional lateral movement when skating with the puck and is outstanding in one-on-one situations has great vision and uses his teammates very well.. is very adept at making short passes in tight quarters.. has a very accurate wrist shot with a quick release and is a threat to score from anywhere in the offensive zone.. also possesses a good, hard slap shot.. is able to control the play in the offensive zone .. a feisty competitor who does not show any fear.. willing to work through any adversity .. relishes the pressure of being a "go-to guy" .. is not overly physical but is capable of delivering the big hit.. often logs an enormous amount of ice time.

Another Report:

Good solid skater with good speed, balance and agility... Very good accurate shot with quick release... Scores big goals... Very smart and creative... Intense and stands his ground... Mentally tough... Showed in rookie WHL season that he could not be intimidated... Willing to drop the gloves and fight.

_________________________________

Now, as I posted in other Threads - this was the player I remember watching in Junior Hockey. This is not the player I've been watching in New York - whether he plays 8 minutes or 20. I've always liked Lundmark - however he is not even close to resembling the player he used to be - even in glimpses. This is a kid that I saw play probably over 75 times from '98-00.

Hopefully, he can find his confidence - develop his skills and become the player everyone thought he would be. I remember Al Coates on draft day nearly threw up on the table when he saw Lundmark was available with the pick he traded (9th overall).

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 02:55 PM
  #2
Khelvan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,376
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Khelvan Send a message via AIM to Khelvan Send a message via MSN to Khelvan
The reason I would not be too upset if Lundmark were gone in a trade for, say, the 1st overall pick, is that he glides. He doesn't seem to skate hard. Compared to Balej, who skates all the time and is constantly on the move, I'm not impressed. Balej tries to find holes, skates hard for loose pucks, and keeps his legs moving. I would like to see Jamie do that. Other young players like Murray and Ortmeyer skate hard. Lundmark might have all the skill in the world, but if he doesn't want to work, I don't want him on the "new" Rangers.

-Khel

Khelvan is online now  
Old
03-20-2004, 02:57 PM
  #3
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khelvan
The reason I would not be too upset if Lundmark were gone in a trade for, say, the 1st overall pick, is that he glides. He doesn't seem to skate hard. Compared to Balej, who skates all the time and is constantly on the move, I'm not impressed. Balej tries to find holes, skates hard for loose pucks, and keeps his legs moving. I would like to see Jamie do that. Other young players like Murray and Ortmeyer skate hard. Lundmark might have all the skill in the world, but if he doesn't want to work, I don't want him on the "new" Rangers.

-Khel
He just looks lost. I mean, the player in Juniors was the opposite - he was a fierce competitor and Captain material. Never took a shift off, would battle in the corners, never would back down. I don't see that any longer.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 03:24 PM
  #4
charliemurphy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Concrete Jungle, NYC
Posts: 475
vCash: 500
I wouldn't be shocked if he is dealt to move up in the draft.
I'm just wondering what the "new" Rangers are going to look like.
FA?-Lundmark?-Jagr:I'm sure Sather will acquire a free agent LW, maybe Rucinsky?
Just a feeling. If Lundmark goes in a trade who's our 1st line center.
Ortmeyer-Holik-Balej:This could be a pretty good line. Young offense with with serious checking center.
Umberger?-Murray?-FA?oes anybody think Umberger is NHL ready. I do. I can see him playing LW along Murray and maybe Barnaby returns on RW?
No idea about a 4th line. I would love to see Dominic Moore and Martin Grenier get a shot.
Anyone know, honestly, how far away Immonen? Betts? Kondratiev? Helminen?Jessiman? and Prucha? are from NHL?
Getting ahead of myself?
We are all going to have to wait until after the upcoming draft.
One thing is certain. Sather is going to bring in some FA's. Why do I have a bad feeling that Lidros will be resigned-dirt cheap.

charliemurphy is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 03:32 PM
  #5
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
I wouldn't be shocked if he is dealt to move up in the draft.
I'm just wondering what the "new" Rangers are going to look like.
FA?-Lundmark?-Jagr:I'm sure Sather will acquire a free agent LW, maybe Rucinsky?
Just a feeling. If Lundmark goes in a trade who's our 1st line center.
Ortmeyer-Holik-Balej:This could be a pretty good line. Young offense with with serious checking center.
Umberger?-Murray?-FA?oes anybody think Umberger is NHL ready. I do. I can see him playing LW along Murray and maybe Barnaby returns on RW?
No idea about a 4th line. I would love to see Dominic Moore and Martin Grenier get a shot.
Anyone know, honestly, how far away Immonen? Betts? Kondratiev? Helminen?Jessiman? and Prucha? are from NHL?
Getting ahead of myself?
We are all going to have to wait until after the upcoming draft.
One thing is certain. Sather is going to bring in some FA's. Why do I have a bad feeling that Lidros will be resigned-dirt cheap.
I'm sure Sather will bring in Free Agents..... He needs to to field a team. Helminen and Jessiman are a few years away (though I think Jessiman will be in Hartford next year). Umberger could probably play in the NHL, but after a year off would like to see him in Hartford next year - if he's not let go or traded.

Betts will be on the NHL roster next year, as will Kondratiev. PRucha is a wildcard - I think he can play in the NHL next year - but he's small. I think he'll turn heads at camp. Ortmeyer is not a 1st line player. First line will likely be Holik, Jagr and a wing.... Rucinsky certainly fits that mold.

Lindros resigning dirt cheap is not the worst thing in the world - he can hold the fort for a little while while players develop. Besides, he was one of the few strong leaders in the room this year - he's really become a nice team player. I don't think it'll happen though - I think he's gone.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 03:47 PM
  #6
charliemurphy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Concrete Jungle, NYC
Posts: 475
vCash: 500
Can I ask why put Rucinsky-Holik-Jagr as your top line?
Don't you think it's smarter to blend the veterans with younger talent?
I don't think Sather is that nuts to not sign RJ. I maybe wrong on Sather.
I would really like to see Dominic Moore centering a line next year.
If Lindros is signed he shouldn't get more than $2M-He's way to fragile. He injured his shoulder just practicing when returning from yet another concussion.
I hope ther is a next year.
A lockout looks inevitable. Does anyone know if there is a deadline? And what would happen with the draft?
I would think that the teams would have the same ranknings as the previous draft.

charliemurphy is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 03:51 PM
  #7
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
Can I ask why put Rucinsky-Holik-Jagr as your top line?
Don't you think it's smarter to blend the veterans with younger talent?
I don't think Sather is that nuts to not sign RJ. I maybe wrong on Sather.
I would really like to see Dominic Moore centering a line next year.
If Lindros is signed he shouldn't get more than $2M-He's way to fragile. He injured his shoulder just practicing when returning from yet another concussion.
I hope ther is a next year.
A lockout looks inevitable. Does anyone know if there is a deadline? And what would happen with the draft?
I would think that the teams would have the same ranknings as the previous draft.
I put that as the first line out of default - Rangers at this point have no NHL ready 1st line prospects.

I think Umberger might be signed and traded at the draft if they make a run and
Ovechkin. If not, I still would like to see him do a year in Hartford after sitting out a year. I think he should at least start there. I've expressed my opinion on Moore -and I don't think he's NHL cailiber right now.

Draft will occur - no matter lockout or not.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 04:07 PM
  #8
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
As I said in another post,everyone has kind of fogotten that the Rangers don't have many first line prospects and even then they aren't ready by a long shot yet.

That is one reason why this draft might be exceptionally important to the Rangers, and that's because they NEED, no they must add at least two potential core players.

The rest of the system is still filled with a lot of third line/ fourth line talent.

Edge is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 04:48 PM
  #9
Barnaby
Registered User
 
Barnaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Jefferson, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
I would really like to see Dominic Moore centering a line next year.
No

I'lll give him a shot for a 4th line spot, but we should have better options. He's not skilled enough for the top 2 lines or big enough for the 3rd line. Hard working 4th liner at best next year.

Barnaby is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 05:06 PM
  #10
BigE
Registered User
 
BigE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
It's hard to see him struggle like this. I thought he was starting to make a little bit of progress but it almost seems to be that his frustration has gotten to the point of him not even bothering anymore.

Maybe getting out of New York would be a good thing and just as Ranger luck would have it the minute we trade him he'll start to fulfill some of that potential.

I'd like to stick with him for another year or so but if we can send him in a deal for Ovechkin I probably won't complain.

BigE is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 05:53 PM
  #11
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,304
vCash: 500
Park...

from what I've seen (only through a bunch of clips over the years) on Lundmark in his WHL days, was a kid that played quite aggressively. He was able to fight his way through checks. Win battles, etc. While he wasn't big, he wasn't small in the WHL. Has his style changed much in the NHL, as he is now a smallish guy, in your opinion?

To me, he has skills. He can skate. He can stickhandle. He has a quick release, and a nice, accurate shot. He has hockey sense. But, he doesn't always get that shot off, sometimes because he's muscled off the puck - or moved even before the puck get there. Same with his passing and stickhandling - he just gets pushed around a lot out there and can make the plays.

While Jamie may not have taken the bulls by the horns, I don't think management/the coaching staff took played to his strengths at times either. As was mentioned elsewhere, he did have success on Mess' wing. Heck, he played very well, I thought, on the off-wing (with Mess). He was able to take advantage of some nice passes from Mess and use that quick release to get off good shots. But the coaches made him a center. Then a right winger. Then a center. On the third line. On the fourth line. Unfortunately this team was so in the need of wins, it had to try anything and everything and there was a lack of patience - and bringing along a kid was not what they wanted to do, I do think.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:07 PM
  #12
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
from what I've seen (only through a bunch of clips over the years) on Lundmark in his WHL days, was a kid that played quite aggressively. He was able to fight his way through checks. Win battles, etc. While he wasn't big, he wasn't small in the WHL. Has his style changed much in the NHL, as he is now a smallish guy, in your opinion?

To me, he has skills. He can skate. He can stickhandle. He has a quick release, and a nice, accurate shot. He has hockey sense. But, he doesn't always get that shot off, sometimes because he's muscled off the puck - or moved even before the puck get there. Same with his passing and stickhandling - he just gets pushed around a lot out there and can make the plays.

While Jamie may not have taken the bulls by the horns, I don't think management/the coaching staff took played to his strengths at times either. As was mentioned elsewhere, he did have success on Mess' wing. Heck, he played very well, I thought, on the off-wing (with Mess). He was able to take advantage of some nice passes from Mess and use that quick release to get off good shots. But the coaches made him a center. Then a right winger. Then a center. On the third line. On the fourth line. Unfortunately this team was so in the need of wins, it had to try anything and everything and there was a lack of patience - and bringing along a kid was not what they wanted to do, I do think.
He did play very aggresively. While the WHL is not the NHL in terms of size, it isn't a small league either.... That's what I mean when I say he simply is not the same player. It seems to me, for whatever reason, that he cannot play in traffic at this point. That wasn't the case in the WHL. Some players are unable to make the adjustment to the overall speed of the game in the NHL (which explains his poor decision making with the puck that we've seen). He has also stopped moving his feet - something he never did in juniors. The Flyers first goal exposed him doing this today.

The Rangers had him play two more season in WHL after being drafted, a full year in Hartford, and then the NHL. I don't think they misused him tremendously - he hasn't shown much. At this point, I'd be giving him 18-20 min per game, but as I've posted elsewhere - I think the Rangers have given up on him.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:12 PM
  #13
barnaby63
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Long Island
Posts: 860
vCash: 500
Petr Prucha and Jan Marek are 1st/2nd line prospects.

barnaby63 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:21 PM
  #14
Ranger Blue
Awaiting Moderation
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Compared to Balej, who skates all the time and is constantly on the move, I'm not impressed. Balej tries to find holes, skates hard for loose pucks, and keeps his legs moving
My God, I feel for Balej cause the minute he screws up he'll be the next Lundmark. It's called rebuilding, does ANYone here know the word patience? The best thing that could happen to Jamie in my humble opinion would to be either traded, or moved to wing. UNLESS he gets stronger in the off season, he's better off at Wing. The ABC guy had me laughing today with the list of former Rangers. I think Lundmark will be another one to come back and bite them in the ass, too.

Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:26 PM
  #15
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
Petr Prucha and Jan Marek are 1st/2nd line prospects.
says who?

i dont even know who the heck they are and a quick glance at the hockeys future ranger page shows they are not even on the radar screen

in the hall is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:28 PM
  #16
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
since lundmark was the topic i hope this is appropriate here but i am wondering what was the point of playing him with jagr and hlavac if its only for ONE GAME!???!

renny himself even said during the pregame lundmark will get his chances the remainder of the year indicating he would play with jagr the entire time... this team lacks so much patience its sickening

in the hall is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:42 PM
  #17
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
since lundmark was the topic i hope this is appropriate here but i am wondering what was the point of playing him with jagr and hlavac if its only for ONE GAME!???!

renny himself even said during the pregame lundmark will get his chances the remainder of the year indicating he would play with jagr the entire time... this team lacks so much patience its sickening
I think it might have just been against a physical team like the Flyers today that they moved him back. If that's not the case, then yes - one game was pointless.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 06:45 PM
  #18
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
Petr Prucha and Jan Marek are 1st/2nd line prospects.
Petr Prucha and Jan Marek may never even play in the NHL. They are not 1st line prospects at this point. That doesn't mean they will never play on a 1st line - It just means that right now, they are Tier II prospects.

That said, I love Prucha and think he'll turn many heads in training camp. But, I don't believe an eastern Conf. team can have a 5'9, 160 pound center as it's top center (in the next 5 years). Prucha can be a nice player, but he is not a 1st line prospect at this point.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:12 PM
  #19
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
from what I've seen (only through a bunch of clips over the years) on Lundmark in his WHL days, was a kid that played quite aggressively. He was able to fight his way through checks. Win battles, etc. While he wasn't big, he wasn't small in the WHL. Has his style changed much in the NHL, as he is now a smallish guy, in your opinion?

To me, he has skills. He can skate. He can stickhandle. He has a quick release, and a nice, accurate shot. He has hockey sense. But, he doesn't always get that shot off, sometimes because he's muscled off the puck - or moved even before the puck get there. Same with his passing and stickhandling - he just gets pushed around a lot out there and can make the plays.

While Jamie may not have taken the bulls by the horns, I don't think management/the coaching staff took played to his strengths at times either. As was mentioned elsewhere, he did have success on Mess' wing. Heck, he played very well, I thought, on the off-wing (with Mess). He was able to take advantage of some nice passes from Mess and use that quick release to get off good shots. But the coaches made him a center. Then a right winger. Then a center. On the third line. On the fourth line. Unfortunately this team was so in the need of wins, it had to try anything and everything and there was a lack of patience - and bringing along a kid was not what they wanted to do, I do think.

I'll be honest with you, he took a step down after his rookie season in the WHL. I dont know what happened but he did lose his edge as Park pointed out.

He was smallish by junior standards {the WHL has tended to be a bigger and tougher league for the past decade} but he was fiesty and he could get under your skin.

He just hasn't shown that in any of this three pro seasons. The fact is that at 23 he's gotta show something.

One of the things that drew me to him as early as 1998 was his willingness to never give up. He was slippery fast and he was chippy. He wasn't afraid to give a hack and whack and he logged a ton of icetime.

His sophmore effort was disappointing. He got hurt and never regained his stride really.

His third year was solid, but he didn't take up a notch and scoring and his physical play wasn't there as often.

By the time he got to Hartford he looked more and more like Anson Carter in terms of physical play and scoring then he did guys like Yzerman and Roenick who he showed similarities too earlier on.

In the NHL it's been interesting. His balance has really been a weakness as he just can't seem to stay on his skates when he is hit. He takes dumb penalties and sad as it is to say, I see the same player at 23 that I do at 20. I don't see a lot of progression with the exception of adding weight, which becomes a mute point because he can't stay on his feet. He's not tiny. He's a solid 6'0, 195 maybe even 200 at this point.

Character has never really been an issue but he seems to have just not gotten better. He hasn't even averaged a point per game at the AHL level {and that includes going back down last season} and frankly that isn't acceptable. Even a guy like rico fata showed a better scoring touch in the AHL.

Now I've been a backer for a long time but I think i started to really have some doubts when Fata went down the AHL in a very mature manner and quietly rounded his game out. You could see the hard work and you could see a progression in his game.

By the time this season rolled around, I had already quietly said to myself that we should have sent Lundmark to Pitts. and kept Fata ourselves.

Everyone treated Fata like sucha bust despite being 12 months older than Lundmark. I was always a big Fata fan and he's showing me in Pitts. that he can at least be solid NHL'er and he's working to get better. Jamie....well.....honestly hasn't shown me that.

I want him to but it's just not there......yet.

Edge is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:13 PM
  #20
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,304
vCash: 500
Lundmark wasn't misused...

mostly, I agree. He was brought along nicely, but to me, I thought they found a niche for him on the off-wing, playing with a playmaker, but seemed to jerk him around from that point on (starting near the end of last season). They've given him chances here and there, but weren't too patient (seemingly making up their minds quickly - although they had no problem throwing a guy like Hlavac out there 15 minutes a night for 60 games, tallying 5 goals). He went back to center. To right wing. To me, I thought his best chance was to play with Kovalev (on the right) and Lindros to start the season - he's have a playmaker and would have skating room to get comfortable and gain confidence. Of course that's just my opinion and management had another, but I think from the get-go, they weren't all for him. He didn't tear up the AHL like you'd hope a future top 2 line forward would. He had a nice season offensively, nothing spectacular.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:17 PM
  #21
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
for me his balance is a major concern. No matter where he is playing, this kid has to learn to stay on his dang feet.

Also he has to learn that there are other ways to contribute other then scoring and that lazy penalties is not one of them.

I mean i think we all have to admit if this kid can't do something with this chance now, while Ortmeyer and Murray impress the heck out of people {Without scoring mind you} then something is wrong.

Edge is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:19 PM
  #22
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,304
vCash: 500
Edge...

I do mostly agree. But had Jamie been traded to PITT, got the 18 minutes per night on a consistent basis, I think he gets the 14 goals that Fata has tallied (or close to it). Also, Fata started off quite good, if I remember correctly, and really tailed off (6 goals in his last 47 games - since December).

I was disappointed last season when he went to HFD, scored the hattrick, and really did very little in the games that followed. Fata, as you mentioned, did much better in the AHL and played himself out of that league.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:20 PM
  #23
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
didnt lundmark shatter something the year after he was drafted?

i think it was his wrist or something around his arm or hand, that could explain his regression

in the hall is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:31 PM
  #24
Kodiak
Registered User
 
Kodiak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ranger fan in Philly
Posts: 2,185
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Kodiak Send a message via AIM to Kodiak Send a message via Yahoo to Kodiak
I think the main problem with Lundmark right now is that he doesn't seem to have much direction at even strength. Watching Lundmark at even strength and watching Lundmark on the penalty kill is like watching 2 different players. On the pk, he knows what to do and where to go and he's got some jump in his step as he does it. At even strength, he looks out of place, and I think that's because we've jerked him around so much. When we first brought him up, he started scoring right off the bat, but then we told him to concentrate on defense for a while and the goals will come later. And then we put him on Holik's wing and tried to make him a checker. I think he just doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing at even strength at this point. Is he supposed to play like a defensive forward or is he supposed to gamble and create offense?

Other young players like Tyutin, Lampman, Murray, and Balej can come up and look good because they know what they're supposed to do. They've had real coaches work with them this year, and their games are going to carry over from that even if they come into a coachless atmosphere. But Lundmark hasn't had a real coach in 2 years. All he's had recently is the practice-free "just go out there and do whatever" system. No wonder he looks lost out there.

Kodiak is offline  
Old
03-20-2004, 07:31 PM
  #25
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
didnt lundmark shatter something the year after he was drafted?

i think it was his wrist or something around his arm or hand, that could explain his regression
Lundmark was hurt the year after he was drafted and missed half the year.... If I remember correctly it was a shoulder problem.

At this point I really question if he is able to play at the speed of the NHL game. His decision making is horrible. He plays with little emotion. He just doesn't seem to be the same player (in terms of effort, grit, etc). Combine this with his lack of confidence and it is a recipe for disaster.

Park #2 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.